Diesel split calculator

[Reptile Smile]

This is still in development, but have a look at;

 

http://dieselcalculator.110mb.com

 

I've made a form that calculates the total due depending on what split is declared. This way, I figured, your boatyard can't claim it's too much work for them to calculate.

 

I've based it on the maths on the HMRC site, but if anyone disagrees with my maths, please do let me know.

 

I'll sort out the formatting, prettify it, and whatnot, but at the moment - any thoughts, feedback or comments would be gratefully received...

[GeoffS]

This is still in development, but have a look at;

 

http://dieselcalculator.110mb.com

 

I've made a form that calculates the total due depending on what split is declared. This way, I figured, your boatyard can't claim it's too much work for them to calculate.

 

I've based it on the maths on the HMRC site, but if anyone disagrees with my maths, please do let me know.

 

I'll sort out the formatting, prettify it, and whatnot, but at the moment - any thoughts, feedback or comments would be gratefully received...

 

I made a calculator in Excel but dont know how I can post an Excel file? Anyone know?

 

The main thing depends on what you say is 'the cost of Red'. What the starting point is - With or without VAT.

 

I noticed this even in the latest IWA magaxine. People start with 0.70pl that they have been paying and then add VAT the FULL propulsion amount not just the extra.

 

I made the calculator so I could help my marina out. I can send to you if you want.

[Reptile Smile]

I made a calculator in Excel but dont know how I can post an Excel file? Anyone know?

 

The main thing depends on what you say is 'the cost of Red'. What the starting point is - With or without VAT.

 

I noticed this even in the latest IWA magaxine. People start with 0.70pl that they have been paying and then add VAT the FULL propulsion amount not just the extra.

 

I made the calculator so I could help my marina out. I can send to you if you want.

 

My calculator uses the HMRC example. The last thing it does is add on 5% VAT on to the propulsion calculation and the domestic calculation, and therefore I presume the HMRC example starts with the cost of VAT not including VAT - I presume that if the marina wanted to use it to calculate a customer's, they would know the cost of the diesel without VAT..?

 

That said, it would be relatively straight forward to add a tick box into my page such that you could indicate whether the price you have entered includes VAT or not.

 

I would be very interested to see your Excel file, and will PM you my email address. I figured the advantage of using Javascript was that pretty much all marinas would have access to the internet, and therefore could get access to this page..?

 

Thanks!

Edited November 6, 2008 by Reptile Smile

[Nickhlx]

.. which by inputting £0.77 per litre gives the current price for roadside DERV.

 

 

So if it is being advertised anywhere at more than 77p/litre, with a 60/40 split its cheaper to buy roadside DERV, quite apart from any decisions about whether you want a better fuel or pollute less.

 

Of course this does assume you can carry (and be bothered to) a jerry can...

 

How long until that's illegal as well ?

 

 

Nick

[GeoffS]

Your calculator assumes for 100% propulsion:

 

Cost of Red 0.60

Extra Duty 0.4066

Vat on 1.0066(ie incl the 0.60) 0.0503

Total 1.0569

 

This assumes the starting point excluded VAT. However most people will assume the starting point is what they used to see displayed ie including VAT.

 

My calculator shows both Propulsion and Domestic rates and allows to calculate either from Cost Plus (for a supplier to work out his charge) or Advertised Price (for the purchaser and to allow rounding to nearest pennies).

 

.. which by inputting £0.77 per litre gives the current price for roadside DERV.

 

 

So if it is being advertised anywhere at more than 77p/litre, with a 60/40 split its cheaper to buy roadside DERV, quite apart from any decisions about whether you want a better fuel or pollute less.

 

Of course this does assume you can carry (and be bothered to) a jerry can...

 

How long until that's illegal as well ?

 

 

Nick

 

Yes! And as my marina has said they will supply White at cost plus VAT which will be around this price then I dont have to carry anything anywhere!

[Reptile Smile]

Well, like I said - that's the kind of feedback I wanted, to see how it could improved. Gotta dash out now but when I get back, I'll have a lash at making a radio button that allows you to select whether VAT is included or not...

[Nickhlx]

Your calculator assumes for 100% propulsion:

 

Cost of Red 0.60

Extra Duty 0.4066

Vat on 1.0066(ie incl the 0.60) 0.0503

Total 1.0569

 

This assumes the starting point excluded VAT. However most people will assume the starting point is what they used to see displayed ie including VAT.

 

My calculator shows both Propulsion and Domestic rates and allows to calculate either from Cost Plus (for a supplier to work out his charge) or Advertised Price (for the purchaser and to allow rounding to nearest pennies).

 

 

 

Yes! And as my marina has said they will supply White at cost plus VAT which will be around this price then I dont have to carry anything anywhere!

 

Sounds good to me - which marina is this ?- ( is it within reach for me ?)

 

So only the question about "are their tanks good and clean with good turnover" remains....

 

Hmmmm - I think I might still prefer to source at a high turnover outlet unless their white was a bit less than BP's...

but its definitely a leap in the right direction ( for me)

 

Nick

Edited November 6, 2008 by Nickhlx

[GeoffS]

Sounds good to me - which marina is this - ( is it within reach for me ?)

 

Nick

 

I heard it will only be for the people in the marina. Just second or third hand talk so far. Depends where you are!

[DameEdna]

I made a calculator in Excel but dont know how I can post an Excel file? Anyone know?

 

I don't think you can. From a security standpoint posting any (binary) file with executable code is not good thing.

If you have a web site and you can upload the file to it you can then add a "clicky" which will allow people to download it.

 

If you send it to me I can upload it for you

 

Example of a "clicky" <URL="www.location.com/file.xls"]link to excel file[/url> (note: replace the < and > with a [ and ] )

 

Like this clicky to file

 

HTH

[Reptile Smile]

Ok - I've included the radio button to 'set' whether VAT has been included in the price of the diesel. Geoff (or anyone!) - fancy testing my maths for me..?

 

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

 

(By the way, the Excel way of doing it is a good thing on a local machine, but it's specifically because it's hard to distribute that I think Javascript is a more elegant solution. Also, on a very mundane level, not everyone has Excel, where as internet access with a browser that supports Javascript is pretty much universal...)

Edited November 6, 2008 by Reptile Smile

[GeoffS]

Not quite there yet! The .4066 needs VAT adding to it regardless of whether the starting point included VAT or not

 

Suggestion. Why not show the full calculation of Prop and Dom rather than a final combined result?

[Ex- Member]

I'm at a loss. What's all this calculation nonsence all about. Any retailer should simply charge 1 rate for propulsion and another for heating, end of story. It's then up to the customer what they purchase. Whatever the split each consumer wishes to declare has nothing to do what so ever with the retailer. If any retailer was to dictate to me what i can and cannot buy, then I'll not use them. I am in a psoition where I have separate heating tanks, but this fact makes very little difference. If I want 60 litres of derv for heating at the lower rate, that's what I should get regardless of what tanks i may or may not have. I may well have purchased 40 litres of propulsion derv a week or month prior, again this has nothing to do with the retailer. It is the consumer that declares thier usage, not the retailer.

[GeoffS]

I'm at a loss. What's all this calculation nonsence all about. Any retailer should simply charge 1 rate for propulsion and another for heating, end of story. It's then up to the customer what they purchase. Whatever the split each consumer wishes to declare has nothing to do what so ever with the retailer. If any retailer was to dictate to me what i can and cannot buy, then I'll not use them. I am in a psoition where I have separate heating tanks, but this fact makes very little difference. If I want 60 litres of derv for heating at the lower rate, that's what I should get regardless of what tanks i may or may not have. I may well have purchased 40 litres of propulsion derv a week or month prior, again this has nothing to do with the retailer. It is the consumer that declares thier usage, not the retailer.

 

The nonsense is just about helping the retailers, who seem to be struggling as to how to implement a dual pricing regime, make the calculations for any declared proportion, and make sure that the correct Duty and VAT is charged.

 

The declaration itself is up to the purchaser and, as you say, has nothing to do with the retailer except that he needs to be sure he has charged you correctly.

 

Reading the posts it seems that some retailers do not want to make a split other than 60/40 even though the purchaser is perfectly entitled to. I can only assume this is because they feel it is too hard to make the calculations. Hence the offers to help in what is actually quite an easy calculation.

 

I would agree that if it were practical to go straight to another retailer if I didnt like what they were asking me to do I would do so, but its not quite the same as driving to the next forecourt!

[David Schweizer]

I'm at a loss. What's all this calculation nonsence all about. Any retailer should simply charge 1 rate for propulsion and another for heating, end of story. It's then up to the customer what they purchase. Whatever the split each consumer wishes to declare has nothing to do what so ever with the retailer. If any retailer was to dictate to me what i can and cannot buy, then I'll not use them. I am in a psoition where I have separate heating tanks, but this fact makes very little difference. If I want 60 litres of derv for heating at the lower rate, that's what I should get regardless of what tanks i may or may not have. I may well have purchased 40 litres of propulsion derv a week or month prior, again this has nothing to do with the retailer. It is the consumer that declares thier usage, not the retailer.

From your perspective what you are suggesting is logical, but most of us only have one tank and no gauge, so we only have rough idea of how much fuel we will need. If I fill the tank to the top I get an odd figure not a round 60 litres and that figure then has to be divided by the two ratio percentages. At that stage two separate prices can be applied.

 

Personally I am happy to go along with the standard 60%-40% split, but based upon the sort of quantities I usually take on, even that will require a calculator to work out the exact amounts to be charged at the two rates. So if someone has worked outy a simple on line calculator that is fine, only problem for me is I dont have a computer on board, and my phone is so old it does not have any gizmos.

Edited November 6, 2008 by David Schweizer

[WJM]

If it helps understand the process 'on the ground'; My last diesel receipt (2/11/08) showed:

 

 

 

Diesel: 89.66 litres @ £0.85 = £76.21

Diesel2: 53.80 litres @ £0.43 = £23.13

Floating Cork Keyring: 1 @ £3.30 = £3.30

 

VAT @ 5% on £94.61 = £4.73

VAT @ 17.5% on 2.81 = £0.49

 

TOTAL: £102.64

 

 

 

 

I just cant stop myself buying those cork balls!

Edited November 6, 2008 by WJM

[GeoffS]

If you send it to me I can upload it for you

 

HTH

 

Hi

 

If you send me your E Mail address I will send you the file so you can upload. Thank you for that

 

Geoff

[Rogerh]

If it helps understand the process 'on the ground'; My last diesel receipt (2/11/08) showed:

 

 

 

Diesel: 89.66 litres @ £0.85 = £76.21

Diesel2: 53.80 litres @ £0.43 = £23.13

Floating Cork Keyring: 1 @ £3.30 = £3.30

 

VAT @ 5% on £94.61 = £4.73

VAT @ 17.5% on 2.81 = £0.49

 

TOTAL: £102.64

 

 

 

 

I just cant stop myself buying those cork balls!

 

Never mind the balls I add up your diesel to £99.34 not £94.61. Which marina is that? Must use it if they give discounts

 

RH

[WJM]

(By the way, the Excel way of doing it is a good thing on a local machine, but it's specifically because it's hard to distribute that I think Javascript is a more elegant solution. Also, on a very mundane level, not everyone has Excel, where as internet access with a browser that supports Javascript is pretty much universal...)

 

 

 

If you give me the maths I can build a stand alone application to run on either Windows or Mac. I use Filemaker to build standalone apps btw.

[Reptile Smile]

Hi all.

 

Geoff, thanks for the spreadsheet. I'm still wading through it, but bear with me. Interesting take on it, though!

 

I've updated the web page - can you test it for me? I'm getting closer, I think..!

 

WJM - it's an interesting possibility, but perhaps using a sledgehammer to crack a peanut? I think a webpage is the way to go. It's just the maths that's catching me - but I think we're nearly there...

Edited November 6, 2008 by Reptile Smile

[GeoffS]

If it helps understand the process 'on the ground'; My last diesel receipt (2/11/08) showed:

 

Diesel: 89.66 litres @ £0.85 = £76.21

Diesel2: 53.80 litres @ £0.43 = £23.13

Floating Cork Keyring: 1 @ £3.30 = £3.30

 

VAT @ 5% on £94.61 = £4.73

VAT @ 17.5% on 2.81 = £0.49

 

TOTAL: £102.64

 

I just cant stop myself buying those cork balls!

 

This is correct for a 60/40 split. 0.85 incl VAT for the Domestic, 1.28 for the Propulsion, Average 1.11. (Roundings excepted)

 

 

 

Never mind the balls I add up your diesel to £99.34 not £94.61. Which marina is that? Must use it if they give discounts

 

RH

 

The 94.61 is the amount before VAT. The 0.85 includes VAT.

[WJM]

WJM - it's an interesting possibility, but perhaps using a sledgehammer to crack a peanut?..

 

 

Not at all - in Filemaker an application like that would take at most about half an hour to completely build and test. The advantage over a web-app is that you dont need an internet connection to use it.

Edited November 6, 2008 by WJM

[Rogerh]

This is correct for a 60/40 split. 0.85 incl VAT for the Domestic, 1.28 for the Propulsion, Average 1.11. (Roundings excepted)

 

 

 

 

 

The 94.61 is the amount before VAT. The 0.85 includes VAT.

 

Just proved my own point about misreading posts.

[Canalwatcher]

Hi all.

 

Geoff, thanks for the spreadsheet. I'm still wading through it, but bear with me. Interesting take on it, though!

 

I've updated the web page - can you test it for me? I'm getting closer, I think..!

 

WJM - it's an interesting possibility, but perhaps using a sledgehammer to crack a peanut? I think a webpage is the way to go. It's just the maths that's catching me - but I think we're nearly there...

An excellent calculator - for perfection you could add a further "c" to "calulates" as it appears on the webpage .. sorry I can't seem to help spotting typos

Mick

[Reptile Smile]

D'oh! Thank you..! Sorted

Edited November 6, 2008 by Reptile Smile

[Nickhlx]

Just proved my own point about misreading posts.

 

 

Are you Wittering again ??

 

 

Nick