Vintage (1500 rpm max) engine

[MtB]

As I may have mentioned before, we are looking for another boat, this time one with a vintage engine. I'm wondering now about the boat I mentioned in my last thread (the one with the 8mm base and concrete ballast).

 

It has a Ruston 2VSH but the height of the swim measured inside the boat is only about 550mm, so I can't imagine it has a prop much bigger than 18" diameter. My mind is turning to wondering what transmission would be appropriate (if any) for an engine like that running an 18" prop, and what pitch the prop should be. I'd imagine a direct 1:1 transmission would be needed, but I'm not sure if the prop shouldn't be bigger in diameter anyway to suit the engine.

 

I suppose my question is: Is a 'standard' 550mm high swim hull compatible with a classic slow-revving engine, or should a classic engine aways be installed in a deeper draft boat? Is this another reason to walk away from that boat?

 

If a 'normal' 550mm deep swim is ok, what sort of transmission/prop configuration should I be looking for? I sense huge scope for error here!

 

Cheers, Mike

[Yoda]

There are some opportunities here. If you decide on an 18 inch or larger prop, direct drive via a for/rev gearbox would be OK. You should try to find a 4 bladed prop if you are sticking to 18 inches or less. That way more power can be absorbed where you want it.

 

You will need to gear the alternators to something like 1:2.5 or 3, to generate enough electrical power.

 

You engine idle speed might cause you a problem. Don't run it too slow but try to find a suitable idle rpm.

 

If someone will make you a 5 blade prop, you could reduce the diameter considerably.

[tugstyle]

Hi Mike,

 

Seen your apolloduck 'wanted' ad:

 

apolloduck

 

What do you make of Northen Lights:

 

Northen Lights

 

We have a 55' Black Country boat. Good, no nonsense shells. They handle well.

 

The only thing I am not sure of is if the engine is in it's own room or boxed in.

 

Is a Petter PJ3 vintage enough?

 

Or what about a cheeky offer on Intrepid:

 

Intrepid

 

Hope this helps.

[tugstyle]

Couple more for you:

 

JP2

 

Albion

 

Albion has been on the market for a long while and has recently been reduced in price.

[magnetman]

Couple more for you:

 

JP2

 

Albion

 

Albion has been on the market for a long while and has recently been reduced in price.

 

Albion seems to have a Sabb 2G. I had one of these in a 40 foot narrow boat. Lovely engine but a little underpowered for 60ft I think. Its 22hp@1800rpm so not a 'very' slow runner and as rpm increases the size of the horses gets smaller.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd definitely prefer a JP2, in any boat over 50ft.

 

JP2 is rated around 18hp@1,000rpm so masses more torque even though it appears to be smaller in terms of HP.

 

 

 

 

In the pictures of Albion it actually looks more like a SABB 2J which is 30HP@1800rpm but the advert says 22HP which would make it a 2G but a 2G has a single rocker cover and the engine pictured has seperate covers.

 

-takes anorak off-

[alan_fincher]

Albion seems to have a Sabb 2G. I had one of these in a 40 foot narrow boat. Lovely engine but a little underpowered for 60ft I think. Its 22hp@1800rpm so not a 'very' slow runner and as rpm increases the size of the horses gets smaller.

I knew someone years back who had that Sabb in a 60 (or possibly 62) footer.

 

Not only did it go very well, he was easily able to tow a heavy 70 footer, and the engine really did sound terrific.

 

I'm not in the know about spares, but if that's not a problem, I'd be very happy to have one.

 

I'd have thought you would not have had to run it very hard at all in a 40 footer ?

 

Alan

[Timleech]

Albion seems to have a Sabb 2G. I had one of these in a 40 foot narrow boat. Lovely engine but a little underpowered for 60ft I think. Its 22hp@1800rpm so not a 'very' slow runner and as rpm increases the size of the horses gets smaller.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd definitely prefer a JP2, in any boat over 50ft.

 

JP2 is rated around 18hp@1,000rpm so masses more torque even though it appears to be smaller in terms of HP.

 

 

 

 

In the pictures of Albion it actually looks more like a SABB 2J which is 30HP@1800rpm but the advert says 22HP which would make it a 2G but a 2G has a single rocker cover and the engine pictured has seperate covers.

 

-takes anorak off-

 

I'd be surprised if a 2G is really inadequate in a 60 foot boat, though it would depend how much waterskiing you had in mind. The single cylinder G has been pushing 35 footers around for donkeys years, maybe regarded as underpowered by modern standards but you don't need anywhere near twice the power for twice the length.

 

Usual JP rating, btw, is 21 bhp @ 1200, and the horses are the same size whatever the rpm.

They are usually less effective when delivered by a smaller prop (at higher rpm) though, especially when it comes to stopping & starting.

 

Tim

[tugstyle]

Albion seems to have a Sabb 2G. I had one of these in a 40 foot narrow boat. Lovely engine but a little underpowered for 60ft I think. Its 22hp@1800rpm so not a 'very' slow runner and as rpm increases the size of the horses gets smaller.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd definitely prefer a JP2, in any boat over 50ft.

 

JP2 is rated around 18hp@1,000rpm so masses more torque even though it appears to be smaller in terms of HP.

 

 

 

 

In the pictures of Albion it actually looks more like a SABB 2J which is 30HP@1800rpm but the advert says 22HP which would make it a 2G but a 2G has a single rocker cover and the engine pictured has seperate covers.

 

-takes anorak off-

 

Our Kingfisher is rated as 26 HP at 2000 rpm. 20" Prop and a 55' boat.

 

Seems to have lots of power. Clips along when you want and and stop pretty sharp as well.

 

I think the slightly bigger prop makes a difference but as the OP states you need the extra draft.

Edited October 19, 2008 by tugstyle

[magnetman]

I'd be surprised if a 2G is really inadequate in a 60 foot boat, though it would depend how much waterskiing you had in mind. The single cylinder G has been pushing 35 footers around for donkeys years, maybe regarded as underpowered by modern standards but you don't need anywhere near twice the power for twice the length.

 

Usual JP rating, btw, is 21 bhp @ 1200, and the horses are the same size whatever the rpm.

They are usually less effective when delivered by a smaller prop (at higher rpm) though, especially when it comes to stopping & starting.

 

Tim

 

I didn't say a 2G was inadequate in a 60 foot boat. I said I personally think it is a 'little underpowered' for a 60ft narrow boat.

Bearing in mind you might one day need to push a bit of tide or river flow.

 

It would certainly be adequate for most purposes.

 

I don't think its possible to reach a speed suitable for waterskiing in a standard narrow boat the hulls the wrong shape

[John Orentas]

I suppose my question is: Is a 'standard' 550mm high swim hull compatible with a classic slow-revving engine, or should a classic engine aways be installed in a deeper draft boat? Is this another reason to walk away from that boat?

 

If a 'normal' 550mm deep swim is ok, what sort of transmission/prop configuration should I be looking for? I sense huge scope for error here!

 

Cheers, Mike

 

Hi Mike.

 

Have a word with Crowther Propellers.. They manufacture a prop, specifically designed for your type of application, they call it 'The Lister Pattern'.. Propellers are not only rated for diameter and pitch but they will often have another figure usually expressed as a percentage, it relates to the amount of the disk of the prop that is 'filled in' by the blades looking 'end on' from the rear.

 

Surprisingly this figure can exceed 100%, the idea being that a smaller diameter prop can have similar performance to one with a very much larger diameter.

 

P.M. me for phone No.

[MtB]

Hi Mike,

 

Seen your apolloduck 'wanted' ad:

 

apolloduck

 

What do you make of Northen Lights:

 

Northen Lights

 

We have a 55' Black Country boat. Good, no nonsense shells. They handle well.

 

The only thing I am not sure of is if the engine is in it's own room or boxed in.

 

Is a Petter PJ3 vintage enough?

 

Or what about a cheeky offer on Intrepid:

 

Intrepid

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Hi tugstyle,

 

Yes that's our advert!

 

Seen several of the boats you give links for, and none of them fits the bill quite. I agree with your comments about Black Country Narrowboats, our current boat is one too! We saw Northern Lights a month or so ago and it's pretty, but dead rough inside and well-overpriced in our opinion. And yes, we want a proper engine room with a separate stern cabin to separate the engine noise from the tiller area.

 

Inrepid caught our eye too, but not sure HOW cheeky an offer they might entertain. Asking price is WAY above our budget but will perhaps give them a call tomorrow to sound them out!

 

Cheers, Mike

Edited October 19, 2008 by mike bryant

[Proper Job]

As I may have mentioned before, we are looking for another boat, this time one with a vintage engine. I'm wondering now about the boat I mentioned in my last thread (the one with the 8mm base and concrete ballast).

 

It has a Ruston 2VSH but the height of the swim measured inside the boat is only about 550mm, so I can't imagine it has a prop much bigger than 18" diameter. My mind is turning to wondering what transmission would be appropriate (if any) for an engine like that running an 18" prop, and what pitch the prop should be. I'd imagine a direct 1:1 transmission would be needed, but I'm not sure if the prop shouldn't be bigger in diameter anyway to suit the engine.

 

I suppose my question is: Is a 'standard' 550mm high swim hull compatible with a classic slow-revving engine, or should a classic engine aways be installed in a deeper draft boat? Is this another reason to walk away from that boat?

 

If a 'normal' 550mm deep swim is ok, what sort of transmission/prop configuration should I be looking for? I sense huge scope for error here!

 

Cheers, Mike

Mike

 

The key thing is the gear box ratio. Anything more than 1:1 and it might be under propped at 18"

 

If you've got a 1:1 gearbox, I would have though a prop size of around 18" would not be to bad. The only real proof is to take it out on a test and see how it performs. It's already fitted and if it works, what's the problem?

 

Key thing to look for is how well it pushes along and at what revs. How hot does the engine get when worked hard? (this can be regulated by a thermostat?). What does the exhaust smoke look like?

 

edited to add:

I've got a JP3 running through a 2:1 reduction and throwing a 26" prop. Draft is 3'. Dragging its bottom along the bottom is not always a bundle of laugh's (hey Maff )

Edited October 20, 2008 by Proper Job