Webasto Thermo Top C

[kayDee]

Hi all...

Thinking of going for a diesel heating system using a Webasto Thermo Top C unit. Has anyone else got one of these and can they recommend them? Can they handle 3 radiators? Can they only heat my water if I have a twin coil cauliflower? Do they need to have 12v or 240v power to enable them to run? Do they just get diesel from the main tank or do they have their own tank? Can you set them to switch on at certain times or can you use a thermostat with them to keep a room at a favourable temperature? Sorry for the questions, just need to know how good they are before I fork out a LOT of money for a system!

Oh, and how thirsty are they with fuel?

Thank you!

Kay

x

Edited October 13, 2008 by kayDee

[chris w]

Hi all...

Thinking of going for a diesel heating system using a Webasto Thermo Top C unit. Has anyone else got one of these and can they recommend them? Can they handle 3 radiators? Can they only heat my water if I have a twin coil cauliflower? Do they need to have 12v or 240v power to enable them to run? Do they just get diesel from the main tank or do they have their own tank? Can you set them to switch on at certain times or can you use a thermostat with them to keep a room at a favourable temperature? Sorry for the questions, just need to know how good they are before I fork out a LOT of money for a system!

Oh, and how thirsty are they with fuel?

Thank you!

Kay

x

 

 

I have the same unit and love it. It has been perfectly reliable but I do service it myself every year to remove any carbon/ash deposits from the burner chamber. If you don't do this, it will become unreliable as will all such diesel heaters. If you are a liveaboard, you may need to service it every 3 months if it is in use every day. Mine heats the calorifier (60 litres) plus 3 radiators with no problems at all. It can be run from the same diesel tank or a separate tank - it's your choice. Mine came with the standard timer which can be used to set 3 independent ON times but does not switch it off automatically. There is an advanced timer available which includes more options including switch-off times.

 

Some people have had issues with using red diesel. I use it exclusively on red diesel and have had no issues whatsoever. I always buy diesel from busy marinas where the diesel is likely to be freshest rather than from people selling it from boats or less busy marinas where there is more chance of the diesel's containg impurities.

 

Check Ebay because there are complete new units, and spares, available at great prices. They are quite economical using about 0.3 litres during the first 20 minutes as it heats up and then only using 0.25 litres per hour after that.

 

Chris

Edited October 13, 2008 by chris w

[kayDee]

I have the same unit and love it. It has been perfectly reliable but I do service it myself every year to remove any carbon/ash deposits from the burner chamber. If you don't do this, it will become unreliable as will all such diesel heaters. If you are a liveaboard, you may need to service it every 3 months if it is in use every day. Mine heats the calorifier (60 litres) plus 3 radiators with no problems at all. It can be run from the same diesel tank or a separate tank - it's your choice. Mine came with the standard timer which can be used to set 3 independent ON times but does not switch it off automatically. There is an advanced timer available which includes more options including switch-off times.

 

Some people have had issues with using red diesel. I use it exclusively on red diesel and have had no issues whatsoever. I always buy diesel from busy marinas where the diesel is likely to be freshest rather than from people selling it from boats or less busy marinas where there is more chance of the diesel's containg impurities.

 

Check Ebay because there are complete new units, and spares, available at great prices. They are quite economical using about 0.3 litres during the first 20 minutes as it heats up and then only using 0.25 litres per hour after that.

 

Chris

 

Thank you for that Chris, much appreciated. I'm looking at someone supplying and fitting it for me, along with everything else like rads etc - a full setup basically. Are they quite easy to service? Not sure I'd want to have someone servicing it every 3 months - might get a bit expensive! They do sound good though and I'm very interested in getting a full system sorted out before it gets too cold!

Thanks again!

Kay

x

[US Marines]

Hi all...

Thinking of going for a diesel heating system using a Webasto Thermo Top C unit. Has anyone else got one of these and can they recommend them? Can they handle 3 radiators? Can they only heat my water if I have a twin coil cauliflower? Do they need to have 12v or 240v power to enable them to run? Do they just get diesel from the main tank or do they have their own tank? Can you set them to switch on at certain times or can you use a thermostat with them to keep a room at a favourable temperature? Sorry for the questions, just need to know how good they are before I fork out a LOT of money for a system!

Oh, and how thirsty are they with fuel?

Thank you!

Kay

x

 

Errm......

 

This is a tricky one Kay - you may be opening a HUGE can of worms with your completely innocent query.

 

There are a number of threads on Webastos on the forum.

 

At least one member has successfully sued the supplier of his boat because it had a Webasto fitted in it and the Judge in that case found that it was unfit for purpose....

 

We'll edit this post in a minute, pointing you to some of the threads.....

 

Edited to add threads here: Clicky1 and Clicky2 for example.

 

You may be lucky, but it seems that you're quite likely to be not - our advice, don't take the risk and look at other kit....

 

Also, don't necessarily believe what certain Marine suppliers tell you about their capabilities.....

Edited October 13, 2008 by US Marines

[denboy]

For every happy customer there are ten very unhappy

[chris w]

Are they quite easy to service? Not sure I'd want to have someone servicing it every 3 months - might get a bit expensive!

 

One needs to be competent and confident in taking things apart, understanding how they work and being able to put things back safely. So for most boaters, I would guess they are not self-servicable. Any diesel heater you buy as a liveaboard will need a lot of regular servicing if used every day.

 

Chris

Edited October 13, 2008 by chris w

[denboy]

One needs to be competent and confident in taking things apart, understanding how they work and being able to put things back safely. So for most boaters, I would guess they are not self-servicable. Any diesel heater you buy as a liveaboard will need a lot of regular servicing if used every day

Chris

think you mean electrical/motor driven heaters Edited October 14, 2008 by denboy

[Daftmare]

Hello Kay

 

We have this unit installed in our boat, and it has never been any trouble. However, we are not continuous users, so maybe the problems that others have experienced have yet to materialise!

 

We do not use 240v so I can confirm that it works on 12V OK. The diesel appears to come from our main tank.

 

We have three radiators, and we run it on a timer.

 

Jo.

[Canalwatcher]

Hi Kay

 

We have had absolutely no problems with our Thermo top C although we are not liveaboards so it has had a relatively easy life. Despite the recent court case boat builders seem to continue fitting them - In this months Canal Boat for example Reading Marine have fitted a Webasto to a new state of the art £121,000 boat featured on the magazine boat test- it has been designed for short breaks and holidays though

 

Mick

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi Kay

 

We have had absolutely no problems with our Thermo top C although we are not liveaboards so it has had a relatively easy life. Despite the recent court case boat builders seem to continue fitting them - In this months Canal Boat for example Reading Marine have fitted a Webasto to a new state of the art £121,000 boat featured on the magazine boat test- it has been designed for short breaks and holidays though

 

Mick

 

Its quite likely that if you fit one of these types of heaters and only use it occasionally, you may well not reach the recommended service hours in 10 years of use. On the other hand, you could use it for 24 hours a day in really cold weather and be in need of a major service after six weeks. I think you really summed it up with 'Short breaks and holidays'. Even assuming you can afford the substantial fuel costs, they are really not suitable as permanent residential domestic heating systems.

 

Roger

Edited October 14, 2008 by Roger Gunkel

[adam1uk]

Despite the recent court case boat builders seem to continue fitting them - In this months Canal Boat for example Reading Marine have fitted a Webasto to a new state of the art £121,000 boat featured on the magazine boat test- it has been designed for short breaks and holidays though

 

Indeed, and during the course of other boat tests, I've spoken to other builders who fit them and have no trouble with them. In fact, whenever I'm testing a boat that has a Webasto system, I make a point of asking about the reported problems with them.

 

The consistent message I pick up is that it's important that the unit is installed and used properly. So if you're heating radiators, you need to leave the unit on long enough so that it can go through its full cycle. Also, one of the radiators (usually the one in the bathroom) should be set up so that it can't be turned off; that way, when you're heating just water, any spare heat can be dumped through the radiator. In addition, don't go for a unit that's too powerful. Like most diesel powered things, they prefer to work fairly hard.

[Roger Gunkel]

Indeed, and during the course of other boat tests, I've spoken to other builders who fit them and have no trouble with them. In fact, whenever I'm testing a boat that has a Webasto system, I make a point of asking about the reported problems with them.

 

The consistent message I pick up is that it's important that the unit is installed and used properly. So if you're heating radiators, you need to leave the unit on long enough so that it can go through its full cycle. Also, one of the radiators (usually the one in the bathroom) should be set up so that it can't be turned off; that way, when you're heating just water, any spare heat can be dumped through the radiator. In addition, don't go for a unit that's too powerful. Like most diesel powered things, they prefer to work fairly hard.

 

What would be interesting to find out from the builders that fit the heaters, is what and who they blame the problems on when they do arise. I think it unlikely that a builder would tell you that they fit a heater unsuitable for purpose into the boats you are testing. As the majority of boats are not permanent liveaboards, then problems would not neccessarily show for a number of years. As you correctly point out, the system needs to be installed properly, the unit worked hard and a permanent heat dump left on. In addition good quality fuel should be used, suitable to the heater's requirements. Unfortunately, the latter is not currently readily available on the waterways and certainly this has vary rarely been pointed out to new owners, even assuming that suppliers had been given that information. Many of the major problems, including the court case mentioned earlier, were inspite of correct installation, maintenance and useage and were due to the available fuel being to a lower spec than required by the heaters, in the market to which they were sold. Unfortunately, builders and suppliers have been passing the buck by maintaining that dirty fuel and poor maintenance were to blame. The court case quite clearly showed otherwise.

 

Roger

[kayDee]

Hi all...

What heating system would people recommend for live aboard use? I certainly can't afford to have it serviced every six weeks! Its mainly going to be on (probably just one radiator) to keep my daughter warm in the rear cabin in winter. We'll have the stove on in the evenings to keep the front of the boat warm but with having the doors closed in the evening so as not to disturb my daughter while she's asleep, it will get cold. If there was just a way we could heat the rear cabin in the cold evenings, well, just keep the chill of it really would be enough... The Webasto system seems a lot of expense to go through to just heat the rear of the boat but I can't think of anything else to do! :-(

Kay

x

[chris w]

What about a back boiler on your woodstove then to heat radiators throughout the boat?

[kayDee]

What about a back boiler on your woodstove then to heat radiators throughout the boat?

 

Hi Chris

How far away can a radiator be from the back boiler?

Its quite a distance away - through the galley, dinette, past the bathroom and into the rear sleeping cabin.

Would that keep a radiator warm all night if I banked the fire up before bed?

[chris w]

Hi Chris

How far away can a radiator be from the back boiler?

Its quite a distance away - through the galley, dinette, past the bathroom and into the rear sleeping cabin.

Would that keep a radiator warm all night if I banked the fire up before bed?

 

I have no experience of a back boiler. There are plenty of people on here though that will no doubt come to your rescue with advice. With regards to keeping the stove in all night, that's not a problem. Even on a very cold night, our stove stays alight, on its lowest setting, and the whole boat is a comfortable 20-22C or so in the morning.

 

Chris

[kayDee]

I have no experience of a back boiler. There are plenty of people on here though that will no doubt come to your rescue with advice. With regards to keeping the stove in all night, that's not a problem. Even on a very cold night, our stove stays alight, on its lowest setting, and the whole boat is a comfortable 20-22C or so in the morning.

 

Chris

 

Thanks Chris

I will see if anyone can advise me about what I need to do and if someone can be recommended to complete the work. It sounds the best solution for us as we can burn free wood in the evening and then bank the stove up with a bit of coal to keep it in through the night and then return back to wood again the next day.

 

So, like I said, if someone can advise me on pipe distances and what not, I'd be really grateful for any help with this!

Kay

x

[bottle]

This is not meant to sound flippant.

 

The bedroom does not need heating, especially when the child is asleep.

 

Good insulation between child and bed/mattress will aid warmth and a good duvet above.

 

My daughter was raised in a cottage with no heating in the bedroom, single glazing, many a time she had ice on the inside of her window.

 

Note: before anyone comes up with the old jokes, we didn't have clogs or drink out of jam jars. The above is fact.

[kayDee]

This is not meant to sound flippant.

 

The bedroom does not need heating, especially when the child is asleep.

 

Good insulation between child and bed/mattress will aid warmth and a good duvet above.

 

My daughter was raised in a cottage with no heating in the bedroom, single glazing, many a time she had ice on the inside of her window.

 

Note: before anyone comes up with the old jokes, we didn't have clogs or drink out of jam jars. The above is fact.

 

I appreciate that, I was the same when I was little but our daughter has learning difficulties and doesn't always keep herself covered up, sadly.

Kay

x

[bottle]

Ah!!

 

That does put a different slant on it.

 

I cannot advise on the back boiler but I believe it would be possible.

[kayDee]

Ah!!

 

That does put a different slant on it.

 

I cannot advise on the back boiler but I believe it would be possible.

 

Yep, its hard work to keep her warm but I like the sound of the back boiler idea - just a bit worried about the distance of the pipe run...

Kay

x

[bottle]

I am sure someone will help, I suspect it will come down to the distance, the size of the pipes and probably a pump.

[wonderdust]

Can always add a pump and thermostat to the boiler.

[Roger Gunkel]

I'm a great believer in trying the simplest things first and have been thinking about your problem. Firstly, my own situation is on a 57ft widebeam with a solid fuel stove in the lounge at the front. We have a side corridor running down the boat with the back bedroom doorless to the corridor. Our heat is moved very gently down the corridor by a 4" computer case fan on the ceiling at the warmest point where the corridor joins the lounge.

 

In your case, it seems that the main heat source, the stove, is producing all its heat in the lounge, and the interuption to the airflow by doors and obstructions would be the main problem. How about trying the same system as us , but sending a gentle flow of warm air through a suitable diameter tube, to the point where it is needed.

As the air would be warm rather than hot, any tubing of the right size would do. You could even make up a square tube from thin expanded rigid foam. We run our fan at half power through a very simple stepdown transformer, which makes it totally silent and the slower airflow stops draught from the moving air. The power consumption on the fan is minute, probably about 0.1 amps.

 

The idea is purely speculation based on our own success, but providing the fan is fitted tightly into the tube, I don't see why it shouldn't work. It would cost very little to make, with no skill neccessary. Others may well think the idea is ridiculous, but there is nothing to lose in trying it.

 

You can also considerably reduce your heat loss with simple double glazing on the windows. We used thin film and double sided tape and the difference was amazing.

 

You could of course try both methods for very little outlay or disruption, before laying out money on radiators, plumbing and back boiler.

 

Hope it at least gives some alternative ideas,

 

Roger

[chris w]

We run our fan at half power through a very simple stepdown transformer, which makes it totally silent and the slower airflow stops draught from the moving air.

Roger

 

Nice idea about the air tube. I am puzzled how you are using a step-down transformer to decrease the speed of a computer fan as these are 12v DC devices not AC and a step-down transformer will only work on AC. I suspect you mean a DC voltage converter so it may only be nomenclature.

 

I built a 12v pulse-width modulated "dimmer" circuit for a computer fan which gives total control from nothing to full chat without wasting any power (unlike a simple resistor speed control). I'd be happy to pass the circuit diagram on to you if you could use it.

 

Chris

Edited October 15, 2008 by chris w