A bit of newbie advice please.

[Paul3704]

I'm in the middle of purchasing a 48' narrowboat from a brokerage in Northwich.

 

I've been on the canals quite a few times over the last few years in friends boats, but the opportunity arose to pick up this boat at a good price through a broker, and so I went for it.

 

The boat is currently out of the water in a yard, which is going to give me ample opportunity to get a little work done on it.

 

The thing is, I'm not entirely sure what to do next.

 

The boat was built in 1991, and had a ultrasound survey in 2006 which reads fine. It also has a safety certificate which is valid until 2011. I'm not entirely sure if I should go for a full survey, or just get then engine and electrics checked out.

 

I'm considering contacting the original owner and ask him to come to the yard and talk me through the boat. Is that unreasonable?

 

Once the surveys are out of the way, I need to look at things like licences and insurance. Are there any good pointers on things like this, as I'm really not sure where to start.

 

Last question is related to mooring. There is mooring available in Southport, but I'm thinking of having it moored behind my house which leads directly onto the canal (Bridgewater). I'm speaking to Peel Holdings on Monday and I'm going to ask for their input. Is this something straightforward to do, or is it overly complicated?

 

I'm completely green, yet also quite excited, so any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

[sueb]

Look on waterscape.com it will give you information. if you moor on the Bridgewater I believe they have their own licencing system. the user group nabo produce a leaflet on uying a boat. & yes get a survey.

sue

[bottle]

Paul

 

Get it surveyed before you buy it, if there are faults they will help in negotiations.

 

A surveyor will also give you an opinion on the value of the boat, the cost of any repairs and guidance if you ask him to.

 

What the ultrasound sound survey says is, that in 2006 the hull had a certain thickness, the amount of corrosion is dependant on how thick the steel was in the first place and how well it has been maintained.

 

If the boat was 'blacked' then (2006) it is now due, approximately every two years is the advice.

 

The BSC only says that in 2007 (test date) the boat complied with the testing requirements, it does not mean it is now compliant.

 

As to contacting the original owner, give it a go, the worse that can happen is he tells you to go away.

 

Sorry no advice on moorings.

[alan_fincher]

The only survey you should place much reliance on is the recent survey you have had commissioned yourself.

 

If it's the "stretched" boat, all the more reason not to skimp here - you need to make sure that no corners have been cut when this work was done.

 

If it's the one I think it is, it does seem (to me) surprisingly cheap.

 

Alan

[Paul3704]

Cheers for all the information.

 

I'm going to get it surveyed I think. It's the wisest course of action. I'm wondering actually if it isn't worth paying for a full survey; structure, electrics and the engine. Then at least I know exactly what I'm getting.

 

I think it might be the one you're thinking of Alan:

 

http://www.harralbrokerage.co.uk/

 

Search under traditional & £20,000 - £40,000; The boat's called Chrisendale.

 

Liked the boat straight away, and although it wasn't to my taste on the inside, it seemed to be a good price. A cursory check (by myself and a friend with more expertise than I) revealed nothing apart from mid-sized jobs on the inside.

 

Since then though, I'm beginning to wonder if it wasn't too good a price.

 

Are stretched boats more liable to problems? The scan revealed 1.2mm loss at the front of the boat as opposed to 0.5mm at the back. This is off a steel hull which was originally 8mm. My friend considered that it was 'about right' for a boat that age.

 

Next question; where would I find a surveyer in the Northwich area, and what qualifications should I be looking for? I've had no luck using Yell or Google. The broker reccomended a surveyer, but I'm not sure I should be following his recommendation.

 

Thanks again.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Paul3704

[Troll]

Despite the credit crunch there seems to be quite a few buyers around, Plenty with deposits taken or sold.

[bag 'o' bones]

There is nothing wrong with stretching a boat as long as the quality of the materials and workmanship either matches or is better than the original build. In fact if done properly you shouldnt be able to tell.

 

Surveys are always a good move, even if you think your capable of spotting defects yourself. For some strange reason having paid for a survey and learning that nothing is wrong some people feel they were ripped off. Can never understand that attitude.

[alan_fincher]

I think it might be the one you're thinking of Alan:

 

http://www.harralbrokerage.co.uk/

 

Search under traditional & £20,000 - £40,000; The boat's called Chrisendale.

I'm not a fan of Harral's site, and the very sparse details they put online. In my view they are one of the worst in this respect.

 

I don't really know how far valuations have fallen in the current climate, nor anything about that builder, nor of course the price you have negotiated.

 

So trying to guess a value, knowing so little, is hard.

 

But I'd say, unless the interior is poor, what it's advertised at sounds low compared to others I'm seeing on offer. Perhaps not suspiciously so - just an (unusual!) realistic valuation by the broker.

 

One thing though. You mention 8mm steel for the hull. Whilst it's possible the base was 8mm on the original boat, I doubt the sides would have been more than 6mm. 8mm hull-sides on a 1991 boat would be pretty unusual.

 

Personally I'd not buy a boat that is "stretched" without commissioning at least my own full hull survey, (but I'm a cautious type!)

 

Despite the credit crunch there seems to be quite a few buyers around, Plenty with deposits taken or sold.

 

At other brokerages I'm seeing boats as "under offer" or "sold" even though I know the buyer has pulled out. Also if a broker shows boats as "sold" on their site, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a recent sale, does it!

[tosher]

If you buy a boat from this broker, watch out for re-launch charges. The cost last year for a one way lift, just lifting in, for a 57 footer was £280!!!! And that was after buying the boat from him.

[Peter R]

if it helps, my boat was built in 1991 to 8/6/4 spec, and when it was surveyed about two years ago (when I bought it) the baseplate thickness was between 7.1 and 7.9 mm.

 

In terms of surveyors, I think I found one through adverts in one of the canal magazines, although i was on a tight timescale due to availability of the local drydock, and had tro try several before I found one who could do it at the time required. I ended up with a company called quest marine surveys (www.questmarinesurveys.com), and was happy with the service that I recieved. Quest appear to be based near Bolton, but were happy to do a survey near macclesfield. I think most surveyors are happy to travel a reasonable distance.

 

peter

[Jim]

Last question is related to mooring. There is mooring available in Southport, but I'm thinking of having it moored behind my house which leads directly onto the canal (Bridgewater). I'm speaking to Peel Holdings on Monday and I'm going to ask for their input. Is this something straightforward to do, or is it overly complicated?

 

Do you really mean "Southport"? That's not on the Bridgewater, or any other canal as far as I know. The Bridgewater isn't covered by the British Waterways licensing system. Holders of BW licences only allowed on the Bridgewater for 7 days at a time and I presume the reverse holds true. This might be important or not, depending on what you plan to do with your boat.

Jim

 

Edited for typo

Edited September 3, 2008 by Jim

[Paul3704]

Thanks for the help on here, it's much appreciated.

 

I've had a survey done on the boat and it's come back fine - it needs a little bit of love, but from a technical/engineering standpoint, everything is in working order.

 

As the boat's out of the water, I'm going to spend a fair bit of time doing odd jobs - just getting it right really.

 

I've got a private mooring, and I've got the insurance sorted. It's got a safety certificate up 2011.

 

What else do I need to do? Do I need to contact British Waterways for anything?

[alan_fincher]

It's always nice when people come back with outcomes!

 

Congratulations on your new boat!

 

If it's out of water, I guess it may not currently have a BW licence. Obviously you would need to get one, if it's BW waters you are planning to put it in.

 

(Bridgwater was mentioned, and I'm afraid I don't know about licencing there).

 

If it does have a BW licence, you need to make them aware of the ownership change.

 

If you can, get it filled with red diesel before November 1st, as it will cost a lot more to do so afterwards!.

 

Also, I think you said it had not been blacked in 2 years. Do that before it's refloated, if you can.

 

Alan

[Paul3704]

I've painted the boat, and done most of the little jobs now. I've got the insurance sorted, and my waterways license is on it's way to me. I've set a date to get it into the water on the first of October.

 

The guy who originally owned the boat is coming down ad I'm going to meet him at weekend to go over details, which I think is very nice of him.

 

So far, so good, though I'm a little bit baffled by the electrics.

 

The whole boat runs on 12 volts, with the exception of the fridge which runs at 240v. The fridge will only work when connected to the mains when moored with a suitable facility.

 

I'm led to believe that there are two solutions - replacing everything with 12v equipment, or having an inverter installed. How much would it cost (ballpark) to get the boat rewired to 240v, and is it really worth it in the long run?

 

Which would people recommend as the best option? I have trouble getting my head around electrical systems. Plumbing and heating no problems, but electrics just hurts my brain.

[bargeeboy]

If you buy a boat from this broker, watch out for re-launch charges. The cost last year for a one way lift, just lifting in, for a 57 footer was £280!!!! And that was after buying the boat from him.

 

I missed this one!

[Jim]

I've painted the boat, and done most of the little jobs now. I've got the insurance sorted, and my waterways license is on it's way to me. I've set a date to get it into the water on the first of October.

 

The guy who originally owned the boat is coming down ad I'm going to meet him at weekend to go over details, which I think is very nice of him.

 

So far, so good, though I'm a little bit baffled by the electrics.

 

The whole boat runs on 12 volts, with the exception of the fridge which runs at 240v. The fridge will only work when connected to the mains when moored with a suitable facility.

 

I'm led to believe that there are two solutions - replacing everything with 12v equipment, or having an inverter installed. How much would it cost (ballpark) to get the boat rewired to 240v, and is it really worth it in the long run?

 

Which would people recommend as the best option? I have trouble getting my head around electrical systems. Plumbing and heating no problems, but electrics just hurts my brain.

 

If everything else on the boat is already 12 volt, why not just get a 12 volt fridge?

[Guest steve newton]

I'm in the middle of purchasing a 48' narrowboat from a brokerage in Northwich.

 

I've been on the canals quite a few times over the last few years in friends boats, but the opportunity arose to pick up this boat at a good price through a broker, and so I went for it.

 

The boat is currently out of the water in a yard, which is going to give me ample opportunity to get a little work done on it.

 

The thing is, I'm not entirely sure what to do next.

 

The boat was built in 1991, and had a ultrasound survey in 2006 which reads fine. It also has a safety certificate which is valid until 2011. I'm not entirely sure if I should go for a full survey, or just get then engine and electrics checked out.

 

I'm considering contacting the original owner and ask him to come to the yard and talk me through the boat. Is that unreasonable?

 

Once the surveys are out of the way, I need to look at things like licences and insurance. Are there any good pointers on things like this, as I'm really not sure where to start.

 

Last question is related to mooring. There is mooring available in Southport, but I'm thinking of having it moored behind my house which leads directly onto the canal (Bridgewater). I'm speaking to Peel Holdings on Monday and I'm going to ask for their input. Is this something straightforward to do, or is it overly complicated?

 

I'm completely green, yet also quite excited, so any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

No, mooring is a very straightforward process, you should have no problems if you're careful. Also, some yard owners are quite pushy, so it'll really have to be a judgement call. Hope it gets sorted soon. All the best, Steve.x

 

 

If everything else on the boat is already 12 volt, why not just get a 12 volt fridge?

 

Upgrading to 240v would be the right move definitely. It's made my life much easier - no more power shortages! Def worthwhile in the long run, just beware during installation as problems may occur...! All the best, Newtdawg.x

 

I missed this one!

 

Cheers, you saved me money! I nearly bought a boat from him. Thank God I didn't. What a sausage! Although I think he's terminally ill atm. OH WELL. All the best, Steve.x

[sueb]

 

 

 

 

Upgrading to 240v would be the right move definitely. It's made my life much easier - no more power shortages! Def worthwhile in the long run, just beware during installation as problems may occur...! All the best, Newtdawg.x

 

 

 

I assume you are moored with a 240v supply handy. A 240v system would be useless to us.

Sue

[Liam]

Last question is related to mooring. There is mooring available in Southport, but I'm thinking of having it moored behind my house which leads directly onto the canal (Bridgewater). I'm speaking to Peel Holdings on Monday and I'm going to ask for their input. Is this something straightforward to do, or is it overly complicated?

 

Hi Paul,

 

I don't know whether you've spoken with Peel Holdings yet but I think you may find that it's not as easy as mooring your boat outside your house, even if it is on the offside of the canal and tied to your land.

 

A few years ago, you would have probably got away with this but not any more.. a friend of mine who had a 25ft cruiser also lives on the offside of the Bridgewater.. the canal runs past the bottom of his garden. He spoke to Mike Webb and enquired about it as a mooring and he was told no way. He's since found a mooring but he does leave his boat outside his house for a few days here and there - can't see any problem with that.

 

My mooring is on the Bridgewater, so if you're stuck or need any help with anything then let me know and I'll try to help where poss.

 

Glad the survey came out OK!

[Paul3704]

I spoke to Mike Webb at Peel Holdings, and he was pretty helpful with the answers. I know of a guy who already has a 36' moored outside his house on the Bridgewater. He indicated it shouldn't be a problem (as he knew the exact area I meant) - but was subject to a banking & depth survey. After that it was a question of £.080 per metre, per week - providing everything was all right with the survey of course.

 

Anyway, in the end we got sorted at Crooke before taking it any further. Crooke with no electricity though. I've not really had any hassle with the yard either.

 

The only outstanding thing at the moment is this question of electricity. I read in the other thread that 240v can drain the batteries quicker, but is this really going to be a problem? I also read that 12v appliances are either not very good, or

they are hard to come by.

 

Would upgrading to 240v be worth it really; and what kind of outlay would I be looking at?

[Miles]

We purchased our boat two years ago and took advice in getting a survey done. What a waste of money. The report came back with a couple of very minor points but after the purchase I spent three months fixing everything from an incorrectly wired RCD to a leaky shower pump. The message is talk to as many people as you can (you are clearly trying to do that by using this forum) but talk to boat yards and people in the local area. Get some recommendations and not necessarily from the broker.

 

If you are a DIYer capable of understanding what is happening if not how to fix spend time on the boat and stick your head into every nook and cranny you can find. Pull on the pipes and waggle some wires and see what happens. Be reasonable of course I am not advising renting a gorila from the local zoo.

 

At the end of the day if the hull is sound and the interior of reasonable/good condition nothing can't be put right with time and in some cases a little money but don't forget to use the internet and caravan suppliers are often cheaper than the chandlers. Oil filters can be purchased from auto suppliers as most if not all modern engines are fitted to some car or van of some description. I purchased 3 oil filters (genuine Isuzu) for the price of one at an Isuzu marine supplier as an example. Same applies if injectors want a clean and calibration, use a local diesel expert not the boatyard.

 

In summary do plenty of ground work and be patient. Have fun. We have found the majority of people on the canals helpful and full of good advise but you will always find the chap with the completly empty glass where nothing is right and just purchased the same thing as you for half th eprice. They usually can't remember where from which tellsyou everything you need to know. Smile have nice chat and forget what they have told you....

 

Happy cruising

[Paul3704]

I've spoken to the fella that owned the boat previously, and he's talked through everything through with me.

 

The boat has two electric circuits - one 12v and one for connection to the mains at 240v. I spoke to an electrician, and as the boat is already wired for 240v, making it 240v 'only' shouldn't be a big job. I think I'm going to leave it for a while though and see how I get on with 12v.

 

I'm putting her in the water on Wednesday hopefully, and then going for a bit of a jaunt.

 

Thanks to everyone who has posted and helped. It's been very much appreciated.

[bargeeboy]

Despite the credit crunch there seems to be quite a few buyers around, Plenty with deposits taken or sold.

 

Second hand market picking up we have taken deposits on 4 boats last week.