What stove is right for me?

[blackrose]

When you go through the roof whats best to use to seal it?

 

You should remove at least 3" of sprayfoam (assuming that's the insulation you've got) and wooden lining all the way around the hole you cut in the roof for the flue and stuff rockwool into the space you made. Then some people put a heat resistant tile with a hole for the flue over the wooden lining/rockwool. Some chandlers sell 1 foot square heat resistant masterboard tiles with the hole precut. Don't forget to put it over the flue before installing the flue. You can paint the tile with some stove paint or any paint suitable for painting radiators.

 

Your flue pipe (on the inside the boat) should go up into the deck collar with a gap of about 6-10mm all around. You stuff this gap all the way around with glass rope available from your chandler. Then you go on the roof and seal the gap from above with high-temperature silicone (plumba-flue http://www.geocel.co.uk/dynpdfs/201.pdf also from most chandlers). Your chimney fits onto the outside of the deck collar, so that the flue and chimney never actually touch each other.

Edited July 21, 2008 by blackrose

[Chris Pink]

So basically a pipe of 5" is adequate to go outside not 11"?

 

Here's the standard inland boat bits;

 

http://www.chandleryworld.co.uk/acatalog/Chimneys.html

 

for prices try Limekiln chandlery, tends to be the cheapest retail prices

 

if it were me i would stick out for 5", avoiding the converter, for which you will probably need a local fabricator to make the chimney collar and find an alternative to the standard size chimney.

 

All of which makes the above link useless!

 

but it does show you the standard animals.

 

I don't know why the 5" flue (smallest available on a stove) apparently has not got to the boating world but maybe someone else does them, i only did a quick search.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Chris Pink

[Eddimonton]

Well I have ordered a stove (my head was gonna explode with the choices available) it has a boiler fitted but its capped so I can make that adjustment when and if necessary. So its gonna go in dry for now. And I've had another rethink (yes ANOTHER one) and the stove will go near to my kitchen area which is about 14 foot from the stern doors so slightly more centrally placed and I will just have to loose some of my couch to fit it in and build a platform for it to sit on/hearth! Thanks god my couch comes in modules - gutted to through it away. Don't much like waste like that.

 

I have found a multifuels fitting kit at Limekilm chandlers for £80:

 

http://www.limekilnchandlers.co.uk/index.p...p;productId=309

 

but do I need a flexi rubber roof plate so cope with the curve in the ceiling? Its quite expensive:

 

http://www.naturalheating.co.uk/caravan-na...pipe-p-797.html

 

Thanks for everyones help, so much information - Cheers

 

Now have I forgotten anything?

[Chris Pink]

but do I need a flexi rubber roof plate so cope with the curve in the ceiling? Its quite expensive:

 

http://www.naturalheating.co.uk/caravan-na...pipe-p-797.html

 

Interesting, looks like a replacement for a cast-iron collar so you could use 6" flue pipe (if your stove has 6" outlet) and not need the rest of the Limekiln gubbins (which uses the 5-4" reducer) but I have never seen one of these orange things fitted. Give them a ring and ask.

 

Which stove have you got?

[Eddimonton]

Interesting, looks like a replacement for a cast-iron collar so you could use 6" flue pipe (if your stove has 6" outlet) and not need the rest of the Limekiln gubbins (which uses the 5-4" reducer) but I have never seen one of these orange things fitted. Give them a ring and ask.

 

Which stove have you got?

 

Yeah I'm not sure about the rubber thing I spoke to the lady yesterday and she seems to be fitting them in the caravans/boats etc but I'm not convinced. I got a little (well its quite big) Coachmen stove 8kw with boiler - seemed to have a good reputation and it was a qute lot cheaper than the squirrel......yikes!

[blackrose]

Yeah I'm not sure about the rubber thing I spoke to the lady yesterday and she seems to be fitting them in the caravans/boats etc but I'm not convinced. I got a little (well its quite big) Coachmen stove 8kw with boiler - seemed to have a good reputation and it was a qute lot cheaper than the squirrel......yikes!

 

I don't know that stove, but with cast iron stoves look for a good quality thick casting. Avoid the cheap Chinese stoves sold at places like machine mart - half of them are cracked before you even get them out of the box! I'm not sure if it's the same with steel stoves, but someone here will know - is thicker plate better?

 

Edit: Remember the penalties of a false economy: if one stove costs £150 more than another but it has a good reputation and is obviously better, how long will it be before it pays for the difference itself in terms of better fuel consumption, higher heat output, longer heat output and less hassle? One winter, two?

Edited July 22, 2008 by blackrose

[Chris Pink]

Yeah I'm not sure about the rubber thing I spoke to the lady yesterday and she seems to be fitting them in the caravans/boats etc but I'm not convinced. I got a little (well its quite big) Coachmen stove 8kw with boiler - seemed to have a good reputation and it was a qute lot cheaper than the squirrel......yikes!

 

 

it's a 5" flue so the limekiln kit is right, seems the natural heating people's rubber thingy would need their 5-6" adaptor and a 6" flue. You might want to consider a taller chimney, especially if the stove is in the centre of the boat, it will improve the draw.

 

Very good price though, knocks spots off the Squirrel.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Chris Pink

[bottle]

Eddimonton

 

Check with the manufacturers, no one else, that it is OK to run the boiler dry.

[Eddimonton]

Eddimonton

 

Check with the manufacturers, no one else, that it is OK to run the boiler dry.

 

What could be wrong with it running dry? If its been set up that way...

[sueb]

Don't forget to buy a carbon monoxide alarm. Ours came from B & Q 'Kidde' make and has a digital readout so you can see if there are any problems before you get a problem, if you see what I mean.

Sue

[Eddimonton]

Don't forget to buy a carbon monoxide alarm. Ours came from B & Q 'Kidde' make and has a digital readout so you can see if there are any problems before you get a problem, if you see what I mean.

Sue

Thanks but I've got them already :-)

[bottle]

What could be wrong with it running dry? If its been set up that way...

 

Who set it up that way (rhetorical) is it fitted to the instruction of the manufacturer.

 

If the manufacturer says it is OK, I cannot see any problem but will the tank take the heat without the water to transfer the heat, at least the tank would need to be vented, if it was fully 'closed' then the expansion of the air within would put the tank under a high pressure, will the tank take it.

 

I am not an engineer but my thought is I would not do it unless I was absolutely sure there would be no ill effects to the stove or myself.

 

Personally, a quick phone call, followed by a letter to the manufacturer, so that it is in black & white would be my course of action.

 

I am known as a pessimist.

[blackrose]

What could be wrong with it running dry? If its been set up that way...

 

It could be a bit like putting a saucepan full of water on the hob - only without the water!

[Eddimonton]

It could be a bit like putting a saucepan full of water on the hob - only without the water!

 

hmmmmm well I don't know!

 

I feel I need to chat again to the folks I'm buying it from - its very difficult and other than this thread my knowledge of this stuff is so limited (as you can tell)

 

Who set it up that way (rhetorical) is it fitted to the instruction of the manufacturer.

 

If the manufacturer says it is OK, I cannot see any problem but will the tank take the heat without the water to transfer the heat, at least the tank would need to be vented, if it was fully 'closed' then the expansion of the air within would put the tank under a high pressure, will the tank take it.

 

I am not an engineer but my thought is I would not do it unless I was absolutely sure there would be no ill effects to the stove or myself.

 

Personally, a quick phone call, followed by a letter to the manufacturer, so that it is in black & white would be my course of action.

 

I am known as a pessimist.

 

Yeah I'll take your advise but I believe it is set up by professionals in the business - not no monkeys! I'll chat to them tomorrow. But I believe the manufacturer says its ok.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Eddimonton

[bottle]

But I believe the manufacturer says its ok.

 

Eddimonton

 

I do not wish to labour the point but the only people that can give the definitive answer is the manufacturers.

 

I would also want the answer in black and white as I previously said.

[Chris Pink]

I do not wish to labour the point but the only people that can give the definitive answer is the manufacturers.

 

If the supplier states quite clearly on their website that it does, which they do, then surely they are pretty confident that running it dry is not going to lead to a warranty claim.

 

Your knowledge is slightly out-of-date, back in the ol' days the back boilers used to be lined with vitreous enamel (glass to you and me) and couldn't be run dry (filling them with sand was the usual option) but this is not true any more, as long as the stove is not hot enough to bend metal it will be fine.

[bottle]

If the supplier states quite clearly on their website that it does, If it is as you say, I do not doubt you, then it will be OK. which they do, then surely they are pretty confident that running it dry is not going to lead to a warranty claim.

 

Your knowledge is slightly out-of-date,It cannot be, I did not have any in the first place. back in the ol' days the back boilers used to be lined with vitreous enamel (glass to you and me) and couldn't be run dry (filling them with sand was the usual option) but this is not true any more, as long as the stove is not hot enough to bend metal it will be fine. Ah!! that could be a problem

 

As already said am a pessimist.

[bottle]

Just found the Coachman on the net and I quote:

 

This stove will come pre-fitted to accept our small boiler option to enable heating of a standard 150 litre hot water tank OR 3 standard 600mm x 1000mm standard household radiators. It will also have been capped off so is ready to use "dry". The internal baffle and capping bolts can be removed whenever required to go "wet" so that the small boiler option (supplied) can be slotted in and linked up to either a coiled hot water tank or radiators.

 

I read this as saying the stove comes ready to run 'dry', without the boiler fitted. The relevant bit, I think, is highlighted (by me).

[Eddimonton]

Just found the Coachman on the net and I quote:

 

This stove will come pre-fitted to accept our small boiler option to enable heating of a standard 150 litre hot water tank OR 3 standard 600mm x 1000mm standard household radiators. It will also have been capped off so is ready to use "dry". The internal baffle and capping bolts can be removed whenever required to go "wet" so that the small boiler option (supplied) can be slotted in and linked up to either a coiled hot water tank or radiators.

 

I read this as saying the stove comes ready to run 'dry', without the boiler fitted. The relevant bit, I think, is highlighted (by me).

 

Thats how I took it too - ie install at a later date

[bottle]

Thats how I took it too - ie install at a later date

 

I read it the same way, the stove can be used 'dry' without the boiler fitted but cannot be run dry with the boiler fitted.

[Eddimonton]

So along with flue pipe, reducing socket, chimney collar, 12" double skin chimney, rain hat, flue sealer, fire cement I also need pump (Gary reccomended a JABSCO circulating pump at £130+ and some reccomened a Dunsley Equaliser so I can choose to have the water heated by stove or eberspacher (this is if I have the boiler fitted which I think I'm gonna do). Is that all? Have I forgotten something? I'm panicking cos its all being fitted soon and I have to order it cos I live in Kent which is far from anywhere which has this stuff on the shelves if I have forgotten something if you catch my drift.......please someone catch it :-)

Any response gladley appreciated.

Cheers

Chloe

[sociable_hermit]

I'm a bit lost by the changing interior plan, but are you sure you need a pump? If possible set up the back boiler and radiator so the latter heats up by convection (I think that's the right word). You just need a small header tank somewhere then - no need to spend out on a pump or worry about the elastictrickery required to run it.

 

In the meantime, if you decide to try the stove without a radiator attached, how about using an Ecofan to blow the hot air around?

 

Be warned that even little stoves get VERY hot. I have a Tor Gem on a 40' boat, and even with fire bricks taking up space on the grate (which was small to start with) it's still incredibly warm. Brilliant for the middle of winter but at the moment I have to light the stove and then leave all of the windows open, as it doesn't 'do' background heat.

 

If you have a youngster it would be worth considering some form of fireguard around the stove. Also if you're intending to cut back the sofa to make room for the fire, don't forget to allow a suitable gap to prevent the remainder of the sofa from going woof!

[Eddimonton]

I'm a bit lost by the changing interior plan, but are you sure you need a pump? If possible set up the back boiler and radiator so the latter heats up by convection (I think that's the right word). You just need a small header tank somewhere then - no need to spend out on a pump or worry about the elastictrickery required to run it.

 

In the meantime, if you decide to try the stove without a radiator attached, how about using an Ecofan to blow the hot air around?

 

Be warned that even little stoves get VERY hot. I have a Tor Gem on a 40' boat, and even with fire bricks taking up space on the grate (which was small to start with) it's still incredibly warm. Brilliant for the middle of winter but at the moment I have to light the stove and then leave all of the windows open, as it doesn't 'do' background heat.

 

If you have a youngster it would be worth considering some form of fireguard around the stove. Also if you're intending to cut back the sofa to make room for the fire, don't forget to allow a suitable gap to prevent the remainder of the sofa from going woof!

 

I was told I needed a cirulation pump if using back boiler so going on advice from others that have had same system. Once a module has been removed from the couch there will be about a 5 foot cap between the stove and couch. I Have looked into the eco fan but I have to rethink using my diesel heating due to cost/difficulty of getting diesel/supply. I've had 3 winters now where at different times there has been no diesel and I'm not doing it again. So I've decide tohave it fitted with boiler and so I can choose what I use and hopefully stop using the eberspacher so much.

 

I am looking at fireguards - so its a god point. I need an angled one - anyone got any good online shops to reccomend?

[Cinimod]

I was told I needed a cirulation pump if using back boiler so going on advice from others that have had same system.

 

I have heard of pumps going bad and not working, which can cause a big issue with the water over heating - so you need to make sure the system is designed in such a way that it will circulate using gravity and that the pump can be left 'off' and the water will still circulate - I think this is an open pump??? (I have only just started looking into this too!)

 

If you have a 'powerful' pump then it can circulate the water too fast so that the heat transfer is not very effective, so you need to either have a temperature sensor so you can turn the pump on/off automatically depending on the heat of the water coming out of the boiler, or have a variable resistor in place so that you can slow the pump down.

 

Best of luck!

[Big Steve]

On such a big boat you'll need a pump, but make sure the feed pipes are in 28mm (minimum) so you will get some thermosyphon if the pump fails.

Re: the thing being near the doors, I would have thought that would be the best place for it. You get a much better temperature gradient if the heat source is at the coldest part of the boat. If the heater is in the middle it will be freezing by the doors and windows. That's why radiators are under the windows in a house, and shops have warm air blowers above the doors.

 

PS have a small cottager stove for sale, with back boiler, heated my 54' narrowboat no bother. Might be a bit small for you, but thought I'd mention it. I got sick of the piles of firewood, so went to oil fired, bad timing!