Bio Diesel

[Dusty]

Hi to all Traders and Boaties.

 

I have a meeting next week 6 november with a Bio Diesel producer and am looking to provide a filling service from DUSTY.

 

BUT there are issues with Bio Diesel and not least the price!

 

Can we start a discussion as to how best to serve our customers who want the "Bio option".

A boat is not big enough to have two tanks and mixing though allowed by RDCO is complex and what if some customers don't want it?

 

I like many would like to see Bio diesel on the boats, but are we being blinded by the bright green light?

 

Dusty

On the South Oxford Canal

07986189074

[fuzzyduck]

I have a meeting next week 6 november with a Bio Diesel producer

 

You're gonna be late

 

ok how does the price stack up at this early stage?

 

and how will it stack up when the Govt shafts us?

[Dusty]

You're gonna be late

 

ok how does the price stack up at this early stage?

 

and how will it stack up when the Govt shafts us?

 

 

OK I ment December - sorry.

 

Answer to your first question: it looks like it will be same as pump prices for diesel, by the time I have a margin and running costs, which is daft and far too high.

Answer to second question: Gov will tax anything and everything, dead or alive, you will never change that. But to make sure Bio is consistant and won't damage you engine or contain dangerous chemicals we need a benchmark and for that we have to pay tax

 

regards

[fuzzyduck]

OK I ment December - sorry.

 

Answer to your first question: it looks like it will be same as pump prices for diesel,

 

So in reality, after next November (ish) it will actually be slightly cheaper than marina diesel.

 

as for the green factor. I would buy it if it was a few quid either way on a full tank. for that "green" warm and fuzzy moment. (ignoring the wider issues)

[NB Willawaw]

Boaters just want cheap diesel that doesn't damage or reduce the lifetime of their engine.

What would you like to discuss.

[onthecut]

As a fairly long term user of biodiesel in my road vehicles, I can tell you for free that the first problem you will have is getting a guaranteed sustainable supply. Your turnover will be so tiny compared to the road market that you will be right at the end of the supply chain. Given that red diesel is continuing for nearly another year for propulsion and likely after that for gennys, heat and cooking, I suspect you will be better off offering a servce such as pump out. I've yet to see on this forum the ongoing debate that has been had and is still ongoing elsewhere about the suitability of bio for particular types of engine and injection systems. I suspect that many boaters don't do anything like enough miles to make the price of the propulsion fuel an issue and if they have to pay full price for the couple of weeks they go out, so be it. I don't want to sound overly negative about a canal based business venture, but I do suspect this isn't the best area to be looking at.

 

Mike.

[Sir Nibble]

AS an aside, I learned from listening to some discussion on an unrelated matter on the wireless that bio diesel is not vegetarian! Apparently a fair amount of animal carcass ends up in it, particularly when animals are unfit for human consumption. Apparently lots of sheep cut off from market by the floods are too old to be lamb and so worthless that they are going to end up as bio diesel!!

[GUMPY]

OK I ment December - sorry.

 

Answer to your first question: it looks like it will be same as pump prices for diesel, by the time I have a margin and running costs, which is daft and far too high.

 

If you are being asked to pay over £1L then your supplier is trying to rip you off!

I am buying retail road legal Bio diesel at 80pL, delivered to my door, thats about 25pL less than road fuel at the moment and thats in only 200L ammounts.

I have been running the car on it for 12 months and apart from having to mix it with DERV during the winter have had no problems.

I will be switching the boat to it next year when the price of red goes up.

 

Julian

[carlt]

AS an aside, I learned from listening to some discussion on an unrelated matter on the wireless that bio diesel is not vegetarian! Apparently a fair amount of animal carcass ends up in it, particularly when animals are unfit for human consumption. Apparently lots of sheep cut off from market by the floods are too old to be lamb and so worthless that they are going to end up as bio diesel!!

 

Related news story:

 

bbc clicky

 

Do the biodiesel list their sources of raw materials. I know the lard engine is a bit extreme but there are plenty of other dodgy sources of biomass out there and, since they're not allowed to feed dead animals to herbivores anymore, how does chopping them up and chucking them out as fertiliser stand up?

[moggyjo]

Morning,

How much would you expect it to be at the pump? if its going to be as near as damn it the same as diesel is now, it is hardly wort the effort, I have heard people saying that they are concerned about using the bio, especially the ones with the newer engines. I think my old Perkins would run fine on it.

By the way Dougies farewell Do, went really well, He had a permenant smile on his face all day, (mind you he got through nearly a bottle of scotch!!!!) Hes going on Sunday.

Wendy

[bottle]

Hi Dusty

 

Bio diesel is not 'safe' in all diesel engines, problems with pipe work I am led to believe.

 

You may have to get the buyer to sign a disclaimer, along the lines that they knowingly bought 'bio diesel' and that their engine was suitable to use it.

 

Edit: Do not know if the disclaimer would stand up in court though.

Edited November 30, 2007 by bottle

[onthecut]

One of the main issues when you first start using commercial bio is that it tends to clean the fuel sytem for you, fetching off any crud in the pipework and tank. Consequently there is a need to have a supply of filters handy for the first period of use. Obviously on a boat that may take some time. There is much talk in the automotive world of the suitability or otherwise of different pumps when bio is used. The mechanical Bosch distributor type pump is reckoned good, while the CAV version is allegedly prone to fail --- so a real issue there for countless BMC and Perkins powered boaters. Those of us with older individual or in line pumps are probably OK, but then the level of lubricity may become relevant over time. Ceratinly if it becomes more economical than commercial diesel, I wouldn't hesitate to use it in mine.

 

Mike.

[badgerburger]

If you are being asked to pay over £1L then your supplier is trying to rip you off!

I am buying retail road legal Bio diesel at 80pL, delivered to my door, thats about 25pL less than road fuel at the moment and thats in only 200L ammounts.

I have been running the car on it for 12 months and apart from having to mix it with DERV during the winter have had no problems.

I will be switching the boat to it next year when the price of red goes up.

 

Julian

 

For comparison, our local BioDiesel supplier does it at 85p/L, from roadside filling station. This is (he claims) 100% recycled cooking oil, tax paid.

 

Main problem (I know of) with engines is natural rubber pipes / gaskets. These are corroded by biodiesel & need to be replaced with synthetic (Viton ?)

 

B.B.

[Sir Nibble]

For comparison, our local BioDiesel supplier does it at 85p/L, from roadside filling station. This is (he claims) 100% recycled cooking oil, tax paid.

 

Main problem (I know of) with engines is natural rubber pipes / gaskets. These are corroded by biodiesel & need to be replaced with synthetic (Viton ?)

 

B.B.

Silicon pipes will wipe out lambda sensors on modern engines.

[Mermaid]

Hi Dusty

 

Bio diesel is not 'safe' in all diesel engines, problems with pipe work I am led to believe.

 

You may have to get the buyer to sign a disclaimer, along the lines that they knowingly bought 'bio diesel' and that their engine was suitable to use it.

 

Edit: Do not know if the disclaimer would stand up in court though.

 

I dont want to see it in our fleet

[Travis]

What fleet?

[pagan witch]

Paying 85p litre at roadside - legit - complete with VAT receipt and same plase is used by local council & umpteen taxi drivers.

 

Would be a bit concerened with cold weather use though. I know our deisel has a winter additive but not heard of similar for bio.

 

Seems to me there are many differing 'standards' for diesel - hence Ebby's aren't always happy on marina 'red' and Bio diesel may just add to the confusion.

 

In principle I'd use it providing it was recycled and not specifically grown.