Stuck Sump Drain Plug

[Noah]

Hi all

 

I've spend the day standing on my head trying to remove a leaking oil pump tube from under my engine. There is barely enough clearance to get a 22mm open-ended spanner under the sump to remove the drain plug but the plug just won't shift and seems to be as soft as lead! It is a BSPT threaded plug with an elbow attached. I will probably replace with a normal blanking drain plug and pump out oil through the dipstick in future. Any advice appreciated as I don't want to have to lift the engine out to gain access.

 

Noah

[smileypete]

Hi all

 

I've spend the day standing on my head trying to remove a leaking oil pump tube from under my engine. There is barely enough clearance to get a 22mm open-ended spanner under the sump to remove the drain plug but the plug just won't shift and seems to be as soft as lead! It is a BSPT threaded plug with an elbow attached. I will probably replace with a normal blanking drain plug and pump out oil through the dipstick in future. Any advice appreciated as I don't want to have to lift the engine out to gain access.

 

Noah

 

Hi,

 

I take it you're undoing it the right way which will be clockwise from above.

 

22mm sounds a little odd for a BSPT sump plug, maybe it's a bit too wide.

 

If the right size spanner isn't around I'd try to find an odd spanner a size to small and grind it out to suit.

 

Or maybe someone or a local garage has a 'metrinch' spanner that will do:

 

http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8719

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Yoda]

Hi all

 

I've spend the day standing on my head trying to remove a leaking oil pump tube from under my engine. There is barely enough clearance to get a 22mm open-ended spanner under the sump to remove the drain plug but the plug just won't shift and seems to be as soft as lead! It is a BSPT threaded plug with an elbow attached. I will probably replace with a normal blanking drain plug and pump out oil through the dipstick in future. Any advice appreciated as I don't want to have to lift the engine out to gain access.

 

Noah

 

Assuming that you are undoing it, I think that its picked up on the thread and is therefor jammed. The more you try the worse it will jam until it fails. If I'm right, you will have to remove the sump to get the plug out. Dont wreck it until you have drained all the oil out first.

 

Edit to say ... Try tightening it first, I might then release.

Edited October 30, 2007 by Yoda

[blackrose]

If it's not a thick question, why do you need to remove it? If it's just to drain the oil why not just use one of those sump pumps?

 

http://www.bosunslockerchandlery.co.uk/def...CategoryID=3070

[bottle]

Not any more help but I agree with Yoda.

 

Always clean around a nut or bolt first, then tighten (not a lot), clean again, then undo.

 

If the nut or bolt becomes stiff or baulks, stop, tighten the nut or bolt (quarter turn) clean and then undo, repeat as necessary.

 

No guarantees though.

[Sir Nibble]

Hi,

 

 

22mm sounds a little odd for a BSPT sump plug, maybe it's a bit too wide.

 

7/8 af.

[Noah]

Thanks for the replies. I'll try the advice on tightening first but it is a real pain to get under the sump pan with only half an inch of clearance from the baseplate. To remove the sump pan would be an engine out job. The reason I am trying to remove is because the existing hose, from sump plug to fixed brass pump, is leaking. I hope to replace with an ordinary sump drain plug and do future oil changes by pumping through the dipstick as Blackrose suggests.

[smileypete]

Thanks for the replies. I'll try the advice on tightening first but it is a real pain to get under the sump pan with only half an inch of clearance from the baseplate. To remove the sump pan would be an engine out job. The reason I am trying to remove is because the existing hose, from sump plug to fixed brass pump, is leaking. I hope to replace with an ordinary sump drain plug and do future oil changes by pumping through the dipstick as Blackrose suggests.

 

If there is some 1/8" steel bar and tools available I'd try drilling 6 holes in the bar then joining them up with a fretsaw and some filing.

 

This will create a flat 'ring' spanner which will grip the flats of the nut.

 

Might need a gentle tap with a club hammer to get the plug moving.

 

Edit: Might be worth giving the drain plug a sideways tap from each side of the engine ideally, to help loosen it.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited October 31, 2007 by smileypete

[dacaB]

With only 1/2" clearance will you have room to actually turn out the plug enough to clear the sump ?

Can you get a set of stilsons 'in there' Stilsons will prolly destroy the plug, but the more pressure you apply the tighter they will grip, you can extend the handle with a pipe, maybe, for extra leverage.

It doesn't sound like there would be room for a hammer wrench, if so maybe a 'yard' would lend one.

What immediate issues will you face if the plug breaks ?

Edited October 31, 2007 by dacaB

[bottle]

Whoah!!!!!!!!!!

 

All this talk of extensions and hammers, if the 'plug' is well and truly 'stuck' then there is a possibility of distorting the sump itself.

[blackrose]

I saw some weird looking wrench type spanners at Crick this year. I can't remember the name but they looked a bit like a cross between an adjustable spanner and a pipe wrench and were made of stainless. They grip either hex nuts or round bar without adjustment and the guy demonstrating them was using them to do pull-ups on a bar above him. Does anyone know what they're called and would they help?

Whoah!!!!!!!!!!All this talk of extensions and hammers, if the 'plug' is well and truly 'stuck' then there is a possibility of distorting the sump itself.

Yes, I suppose so - or cracking it. Who is the engine manufacturer? Perhaps they could offer some advice.

[Noah]

Thanks for more tips. I'm back to the boat this afternoon to threaten the plug with a better quality spanner and a lump hammer. I'll be careful as I'll be stuffed if either the plug or the thin sump bowl cracks. The plug has a hole in the centre with a square elbow connected to the hose which leads to the brass oil pump. BetaMarine (Kubota) have confirmed that it has a 1/4" BSPT thread with a hex head of 22mm. They can supply a replacement blank plug or new flexible pipe with end fittings. If strong words and 'gentle persuasion' doesn't work today then I may try cutting the hose (below the split) and blanking it off with a short length of round bar and hose clamp. Either way I will have succeded in blocking off the sump drain and fixing the leak.

 

Noah

[Sir Nibble]

Heat. not silly amounts, ie not a "gas axe", but a little gentle warming with a blowlamp, (I presume sensible adult judgement on your part) or a hot air gun. There may well be a thread adhesive in use here, and a bit of heat should soften it, you could even run the engine 'till the oil is as hot as it gets.

[Noah]

Heat. not silly amounts, ie not a "gas axe", but a little gentle warming with a blowlamp, (I presume sensible adult judgement on your part) or a hot air gun. There may well be a thread adhesive in use here, and a bit of heat should soften it, you could even run the engine 'till the oil is as hot as it gets.

'sensible adult judgement!' You presume too much from me, Snibble!

 

I wish I could get a torch under the sump but there isn't enough clearance. I've pumped out the remaining engine oil bacause it was leaking badly out of the rubber pipe that connects the sump drain plug to the brass oil pump. If I can't get it out without damage, then I might try to seal the split drain hose. I'm hoping there isn't too much pressure in the bottom end.

 

Noah

[Alan Saunders]

Thanks for more tips. I'm back to the boat this afternoon to threaten the plug with a better quality spanner and a lump hammer. I'll be careful as I'll be stuffed if either the plug or the thin sump bowl cracks. . . . Noah

Brute force (lump hammer) might work but a little patience and a lot of effort alternately tightening and slackening is more likely, in time, to provide a result with no damage. Spanner tightly clamped to nut and an 8oz hammer alternately slackening (tap, tap, tap) and tightening (tap, tap, tap) may, eventually, produce visible movement. Clean and lubricate, repeat ad infinitum. Infinite patience / sheer bloody-minded determination are essential.

 

Consider improving access. Maybe just disconnecting exhaust and drive shaft will allow the engine to be jacked up a few inches?

 

Gentle heat will not help much; more usually a very rapid rise in temperature frees a seized thread. Typically, having rounded off the head or sheared off the bolt an additional piece is welded to the stub; at which point the screw is easily removed by hand!

 

Its not so much 'Sensible Adult' as 'Engineering' judgement - stopping short of doing damage, only learned by experience. Been there, done that x100.

 

Alan Saunders

[onthecut]

Hi Noah.

 

I'm confused (quite often !). Sounds to me like what you have is a reducer which is screwed into the sump drain point, then an elbow screwed into the reducer ?? If so, is the exposed end of the elbow also threaded, or has it a set of ribs to grip a hose ? If it's threaded, might you not be better off acquiring a coupler and an appropriate length of iron pipe and bringing the working opening to the sump edge ? If it's the ribbed end hose tail type, then if you can remove the existing hose, it's surely got to be better just to replace it ? Make sure you have a decent quality hose clip in place, suitably expanded as you offer it on and I'd go for one with a bolt head type drive, so that with a bit of luck you could feed it in with a socket and extension drive already on it. I do appreciate it's probably a lot easier said than done, of course.

 

Mike.

[Malarky]

Place metal drift or chisel, sharp end to left of bolt, bash gently but firm to start nick for grip, then bash harder once a grip point is cut into metal to swivel.

[Noah]

Thanks for all the tips for removing the sump drain. Unfortunately there was insufficient clearance to get a decent spanner/stilsons in there to remove either the plug or the hose attached to it. So I've done the next best thing and shortened the damaged hose, flared on another end and blocked the female thread with a blanking plug. It seems oil tight but I'll only really know when I get it hot and thin on a run at the weekend. For future oil changes I'll pump out though the dipstick hole.

 

My local Pirtek Fluid Transfer shop were really helpfull with the bits I needed:

 

http://www.pirtek.co.uk/

 

Noah