Saab wont start

[Brendan]

Hi all,

New to the site and in need of some help. Was working on the daughters boat today and ran into trouble!! after changing the fuel filter on her Saab model G powered narrow boat bled system and finally got it to start, this is a fairly old engine 1973 and always takes an age to start anyway 30+ seconds of cranking at best. Switched off to go and get a temp transmitter from a motor spares shop. On returm about 45mins fitted the transmitter and finally restarted only left the fuel cock closed and ran dry again. Since then have been unable to start it!! Have stripped the injector cleaned and rebuilt no go, have bled the system thoroughly, even removed the head anealed the gasket and rebuilt still no go. The piston and bore looked in fair to good condition, paraffin tested the valve seats while head was off. The only thing I can't gaurantee is the fuel, the fuel was from a canal side pump. Is this particular engine susceptible to poor fuel or is there something I should know about these engines?? some quirky knack.

Also has anyone the technical info (or know where to get it) for this engine torque settings tappet gaps the usual stuff manual if poss, and common faults, anything at all really. I've run out of ideas and she's run out of battery and waiting for a recharge before trying again with fresh fuel.

 

Thanks, Brendan from Cannock

[Teadaemon]

I can't provide much additional info, apart from pointing out that the engine is probably a Sabb, not a Saab (since Saab have never made marine diesel engines, but Sabb are well known for theirs).

 

there might be some useful info here, how's your Norwegian?

Edited October 18, 2007 by Teadaemon

[Brendan]

I can't provide much additional info, apart from pointing out that the engine is probably a Sabb, not a Saab (since Saab have never made marine diesel engines, but Sabb are well known for theirs).

 

there might be some useful info here, how's your Norwegian?

 

 

Thanks for that only managed to work out the tappet settings, but ther rest may just have well been written in Dutch. Thanks anyway.

 

Mac (Brendan)

[Supermalc]

You seem to have covered most of it. You say injector so take it this is a single cylinder. On my YSE12 I get a starting problem occasionally, caused (I think) by air entering the fuel injection pump through the worn govenor spindle. But earlier in the year when it was getting worse, I discovered the injector was not breaking at very slow speeds. I had a new nozzle fitted the year before, but they could not check the pressure. I fitted the injector to the pipe outside of the head, to check it and it sprayed perfectly when I tried cranking for a few seconds with the starter motor. But it was only this year, when the starting had become worse, I discovered it was not spraying at very slow speed, when I tried it with the starting handle.

 

Have you tried squirting a little diesel into the intake. Despite lowering the injector spring pressure (so increasing the diesel knock) I still have to do this sometimes to get mine to start.

 

Answer.....get a new pump, or engine ......... yeh, as if I'm going to spend hundreds if not thousands which I don't have on my boat.

 

Running an old boat, as an old car, or any old machine will need compromise to keep it going. But that's the trick, as long as it does go, run it.

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful, but might give you an idea or two.

[Brendan]

You seem to have covered most of it. You say injector so take it this is a single cylinder. On my YSE12 I get a starting problem occasionally, caused (I think) by air entering the fuel injection pump through the worn govenor spindle. But earlier in the year when it was getting worse, I discovered the injector was not breaking at very slow speeds. I had a new nozzle fitted the year before, but they could not check the pressure. I fitted the injector to the pipe outside of the head, to check it and it sprayed perfectly when I tried cranking for a few seconds with the starter motor. But it was only this year, when the starting had become worse, I discovered it was not spraying at very slow speed, when I tried it with the starting handle.Have you tried squirting a little diesel into the intake. Despite lowering the injector spring pressure (so increasing the diesel knock) I still have to do this sometimes to get mine to start.Answer.....get a new pump, or engine ......... yeh, as if I'm going to spend hundreds if not thousands which I don't have on my boat.Running an old boat, as an old car, or any old machine will need compromise to keep it going. But that's the trick, as long as it does go, run it.Sorry I can't be more helpful, but might give you an idea or two.

Thanks Malc, Yes it's a single, forgot to mention removed the silencer block and it appeared that the injector was doing its job as the fuel mist was exhausting via the exhaust port. Although I worked for a large motor main agent some year ago I have never touched a marine until recently and wondered if I had missed anything. It's looking more like the fuel is the problem but not finishing until after dark this evening and having worked on it all day until dark it was time to put it to bed. Do you introduce fuel via the intake to the rear of the cylinder or directly into the port from beneath the rocker cover ?? Mac

[Supermalc]

I just squirt some fuel into the intake. Try it, along with A LITTLE easy start (which I never like to use) but does have it's uses.

 

I too had never had any experience with a marine engine, but they are just the same......it's just confidence, or lack of.

 

You know this. If a diesel has fuel, and enough compression to cause ignition it will go.......eventually. Trouble is, the point ignition occurs is often very small. For instance, how many times on a the first frosty morning have you know a diesel not to start, or the first cold and damp morning a petrol not to start.

[Brendan]

I just squirt some fuel into the intake. Try it, along with A LITTLE easy start (which I never like to use) but does have it's uses. I too had never had any experience with a marine engine, but they are just the same......it's just confidence, or lack of.You know this. If a diesel has fuel, and enough compression to cause ignition it will go.......eventually. Trouble is, the point ignition occurs is often very small. For instance, how many times on a the first frosty morning have you know a diesel not to start, or the first cold and damp morning a petrol not to start.

Yes, Thanks again I think I'll change the fuel and go down the easy start route and never turn her off again. Mac

[smileypete]

Thanks Malc, Yes it's a single, forgot to mention removed the silencer block and it appeared that the injector was doing its job as the fuel mist was exhausting via the exhaust port. Although I worked for a large motor main agent some year ago I have never touched a marine until recently and wondered if I had missed anything. It's looking more like the fuel is the problem but not finishing until after dark this evening and having worked on it all day until dark it was time to put it to bed. Do you introduce fuel via the intake to the rear of the cylinder or directly into the port from beneath the rocker cover ?? Mac

 

Hi,

 

One way to help get a cold reluctant diesel engine to start is put a hairdryer in the intake, the hot air helps it to fire.

 

If fuel is getting through OK maybe the injector is partly blocked with crud and not atomising the fuel well enough.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Brendan]

Hi,One way to help get a cold reluctant diesel engine to start is put a hairdryer in the intake, the hot air helps it to fire.If fuel is getting through OK maybe the injector is partly blocked with crud and not atomising the fuel well enough.cheers,Pete.

Thanks Pete, Tried the old warming trick to, although was a bit more brutal with a gas gun. I't must be the fuel, can only hope so. Thanks again Mac

[Maverick]

Hi Brendan, Ive got a manual for the Sabb engines in PDF format if its any use to you. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send it you.

[magnetman]

For sabb manuals go to www.sabb.no click on the english version then support then propulsion engines there's a list of engine manual downloads pdf's.

[denboy]

Have you tried using the little heater things on the side of the head there is a screw that you undoand insert alighter its a bit like a ciggerete filter that you light and insert a friend of mine had the same engine ill find out were you can get them if thats any help

[Liam]

Mine ran out of fuel when I went down to view the boat prior to purchase. The local engine guy spent about 2 hours on it with little success, and sent for a more "in the know" mate of his... between them it took about 3 hours in total.. a right nightmare.

 

I have some of those cigarette thingies.. I have never used them and probably never will, and they're in the original tin so if anybody wants a couple let me know, and I can arrange to get them out to you.

 

Also, I'm able to hand start my engine (if there was enough space under the deck)... if you're able to hand start yours you could do this if you're not wanting to flatten the batteries and are not able to re-charge them.

 

Btw, thanks for the link to the Sabb manual download.. will come in handy. I received the original manual in the original Sabb wooden box but is practically unreadable due to all of the oily hands over it in the past years!

[wonderdust]

I received the original manual in the original Sabb wooden box but is practically unreadable due to all of the oily hands over it in the past years!

 

Good thing or bad.......was well looked after or kept breaking down!

[Liam]

Good thing or bad.......was well looked after or kept breaking down!

I'm suprised actually because no work, it appears, was ever done on the engine!

 

The engine bearers were knackered and only 2 were being used when I bought the boat, plus it was spitting oil out of the exhaust. One of the con rods were snapped in two and the piston was completely shattered.

 

But the best thing about it was that this little marvellous old engine got me off the Pees branch of the Llangollen and back onto the Bridgewater in 2 days without missing a beat even with these problems!!

 

All, thankfully, is sorted now and it runs like a dream.

[Serendipity]

I have some of those cigarette thingies..

 

Fascinating - do other engines use this system - what era is this one from?

[Liam]

1960's and 1970's I beleive...

 

There's a Youtube video, showing this in action here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQkCDLMHCiQ

[smileypete]

Thanks Pete, Tried the old warming trick to, although was a bit more brutal with a gas gun. I't must be the fuel, can only hope so. Thanks again Mac

 

Hi,

 

Heating the manifold gently with a blowtorch might help, but using it to preheat air directly would use up the oxygen.

 

Maybe hooking the engine up to a can of white diesel and bleeding it through would help.

 

If fuel is coming through only other thing can think of is the timing is marginal, or air left in the injector pipe so not enough pressure to atomise well.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[magnetman]

The starting cigarettes are 'Zundfix' we had this topic a while back and someone had a link to a chandlery in London who sell them maybe a search on the forum would find it I used the word 'Zundfix' in that thread which is a good search word.There is a big dutch barge on the thames with a (iirc) big MWM 3 pot diesel (not a semi diesel) which uses this preheat system, i think it was quite common, also perhaps Baudoin use them?

[wonderdust]

1960's and 1970's I beleive...

 

There's a Youtube video, showing this in action here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQkCDLMHCiQ

 

Would a Benson & Hedges do the same job!

[Serendipity]

1960's and 1970's I beleive...

 

There's a Youtube video, showing this in action here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQkCDLMHCiQ

Great - thanks!

[Maverick]

Mine ran out of fuel when I went down to view the boat prior to purchase. The local engine guy spent about 2 hours on it with little success, and sent for a more "in the know" mate of his... between them it took about 3 hours in total.. a right nightmare.

 

I have some of those cigarette thingies.. I have never used them and probably never will, and they're in the original tin so if anybody wants a couple let me know, and I can arrange to get them out to you.

 

Also, I'm able to hand start my engine (if there was enough space under the deck)... if you're able to hand start yours you could do this if you're not wanting to flatten the batteries and are not able to re-charge them.

 

Btw, thanks for the link to the Sabb manual download.. will come in handy. I received the original manual in the original Sabb wooden box but is practically unreadable due to all of the oily hands over it in the past years!

 

Same here Liam. I found a tin of those ciggies on the boat but have never used em. This will be my first winter with the boat but it does seem to start very easy considering there are no heater plugs.

[denboy]

1960's and 1970's I beleive...

 

There's a Youtube video, showing this in action here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQkCDLMHCiQ

 

The only thing is i didnt see him light it??

[Brendan]

For sabb manuals go to www.sabb.no click on the english version then support then propulsion engines there's a list of engine manual downloads pdf's.

Cheers, Thanks for all the info, hopefully I have a manual comeing fron Maverick but will look at the site, it may help me track down a parts supplier as some of the bit and pieces look a bit chewed up through abuse of the spanner veriety.My daughter owes you all a bit thanks. Mac

Have you tried using the little heater things on the side of the head there is a screw that you undoand insert alighter its a bit like a ciggerete filter that you light and insert a friend of mine had the same engine ill find out were you can get them if thats any help

Cheers, Thanks for all the info, hopefully I have a manual comeing fron Maverick but will look at the site, it may help me track down a parts supplier as some of the bit and pieces look a bit chewed up through abuse of the spanner veriety.My daughter owes you all a bit thanks. Mac

Have you tried using the little heater things on the side of the head there is a screw that you undoand insert alighter its a bit like a ciggerete filter that you light and insert a friend of mine had the same engine ill find out were you can get them if thats any help

Have you tried using the little heater things on the side of the head there is a screw that you undoand insert alighter its a bit like a ciggerete filter that you light and insert a friend of mine had the same engine ill find out were you can get them if thats any help

Yes took that plug out and tried to see the state of the swirl chamber and thought that some sort of heater attach ment was possible but the the lighted material things sound strange but if they work all the better. I will send you a PM and include my email address and we can arrange deliver at my cost of course Mac

Mine ran out of fuel when I went down to view the boat prior to purchase. The local engine guy spent about 2 hours on it with little success, and sent for a more "in the know" mate of his... between them it took about 3 hours in total.. a right nightmare.I have some of those cigarette thingies.. I have never used them and probably never will, and they're in the original tin so if anybody wants a couple let me know, and I can arrange to get them out to you.Also, I'm able to hand start my engine (if there was enough space under the deck)... if you're able to hand start yours you could do this if you're not wanting to flatten the batteries and are not able to re-charge them.Btw, thanks for the link to the Sabb manual download.. will come in handy. I received the original manual in the original Sabb wooden box but is practically unreadable due to all of the oily hands over it in the past years!

Mine ran out of fuel when I went down to view the boat prior to purchase. The local engine guy spent about 2 hours on it with little success, and sent for a more "in the know" mate of his... between them it took about 3 hours in total.. a right nightmare.I have some of those cigarette thingies.. I have never used them and probably never will, and they're in the original tin so if anybody wants a couple let me know, and I can arrange to get them out to you.Also, I'm able to hand start my engine (if there was enough space under the deck)... if you're able to hand start yours you could do this if you're not wanting to flatten the batteries and are not able to re-charge them.Btw, thanks for the link to the Sabb manual download.. will come in handy. I received the original manual in the original Sabb wooden box but is practically unreadable due to all of the oily hands over it in the past years!

Mine ran out of fuel when I went down to view the boat prior to purchase. The local engine guy spent about 2 hours on it with little success, and sent for a more "in the know" mate of his... between them it took about 3 hours in total.. a right nightmare.I have some of those cigarette thingies.. I have never used them and probably never will, and they're in the original tin so if anybody wants a couple let me know, and I can arrange to get them out to you.Also, I'm able to hand start my engine (if there was enough space under the deck)... if you're able to hand start yours you could do this if you're not wanting to flatten the batteries and are not able to re-charge them.Btw, thanks for the link to the Sabb manual download.. will come in handy. I received the original manual in the original Sabb wooden box but is practically unreadable due to all of the oily hands over it in the past years!

[Brendan]

Hi Brendan, Ive got a manual for the Sabb engines in PDF format if its any use to you. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send it you.