BSS problem

[markeymark]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I have done just that on a number of occasions, all you get is they cannot discuss these things but they will investigate and if necessary the examiner will be asked to take further training.

 

On one occasion they agreed that an RCD was only an advisory despite the examiner 'failing' the boat.

Yes, he nearly gave me a fail over the RCD too but then changed his mind when I told him there was never a consumer unit installed  but the RCD was there to protect the 240 V supply

Just now, AndrewIC said:

Can you be certain that the extinguishers you inherited were the same as those present during the previous BSS?

No, I cant be certain but somehow I trusted the vendor who had owned the boat from new and didnt seem like a shark. Unfortunately he's dead now so I cant ask him.

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, PhilR said:

Nowadays we are lucky to find anything online.

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

[PhilR]

11 hours ago, WotEver said:

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

Thanks

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, PhilR said:

Thanks

However, the BSS 'guidance' doesn't make clear that if you are a liveaboard the rules are slightly different around testing the gas supply and the qualifications the examiners need.

 

A leisure boat examiner doesn't need to be Gas Safe registered but :

 

From the BSS Website :

 

Carrying out 'work on the gas system of boats used primarily for residential or domestic purposes fall within scope of a piece of UK legislation known as the Gas Safety [Installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR).

As such, the law demands that anyone contracted to 'work' on the LPG system of a boat in scope must be (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered.

As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of a screw nipple on a gas test point, the scope of the GSIUR includes carrying out BSS LPG tightness test.

Therefore, on a boat in scope of GSIUR, examiners who are not Gas Safe registered can only complete check 7.12.2 (confirming gas tightness) by either:

• undertaking a gas tightness test using a bubble tester where fitted and correctly located; or,
• observing the tightness test conducted by a (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered installer

Where a BSS Examiner is also Gas Safe registered is undertaking a BSS Examination of a boat in scope of GSIUR such as if it is a boat used mainly for domestic/residential purposes, the Examiner could potentially identify safety-related LPG issues beyond the extent of the BSS Requirements. In doing so, they may feel duty-bound under their Gas Safe registration to report and discuss the additional issues.

Does a Bubble Tester do away with the need for a Gas Safe registered engineer testing the gas system on residential boats?

Yes, because any BSS Examiner can check for leaks using a fully functioning and appropriately located bubble tester. It is the case however that there is no BSS requirement for a bubble tester and so fitting one is matter of boat owner choice.

Note that all other types of gas work, such as adding or replacing an appliance, needs to be conducted by a Gas Safe registered engineer with the LPG boat competence listed on his/her identity card.

Is it recommended that boat owners fit a bubble tester?

Yes, fitting a bubble tester in the LPG cylinder locker is strongly recommended because it allows owners to check for leaks themselves and so enjoy piece of mind in between BSS Examinations. It is very important that fitting bubble testers on residential boats (and private leisure boats) is done by a LPG boat-competent Gas Safe registered engineer.

This is because the bubble tester must be correctly located and oriented, and for large volume LPG systems, the engineer may need to install a bypass arrangement to allow gas to flow past the bubble tester when it is not being used.

Are there any other alternatives to allow non Gas Safe registered BSS Examiners to check residential boat gas systems?

Unfortunately there are only two methods that can be used to check for gas leaks on boats (manometer leak check and bubble tester check). The only other alternative is for the non-Gas Safe registered BSS Examiner to observe a manometer leak check conducted by a LPG boat-competent Gas Safe registered engineer.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

However, the BSS 'guidance' doesn't make clear that if you are a liveaboard the rules are slightly different around testing the gas supply...

So if you don’t have a bubble tester fitted, fit one

 

You can then do your own tightness test as often as you like. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

So if you don’t have a bubble tester fitted, fit one

 

You can then do your own tightness test as often as you like. 

 

Remembering , of course, that if it is a residential boat, it should (must) be fitted by a Gas Safe registered plumber.

 

The situation is more than a little 'daft'.

I can stay on my boat for (say) 10 months of the year, but because I have a 'main residence' elsewhere the boat is not my main residence so not subject to the GSIUR laws.

Someone else could live on their boat and go 'away for 3 months in the Winter' and their boat is subject to GSIUR.

 

Is my boat safer, less likely to explode that the other boat ?

 

From HMRC definition of 'main residence'

 

The following list of criteria, although not exhaustive, may be useful.

• What address is shown on declarations made on return forms.
• What address is shown on third party correspondence in the file such as dividend warrant counterfoils.
• If a mortgage has been used to acquire one or more residences, on which mortgage is mortgage interest relief due.  (This one is no longer relevant, as the law on mortgage relief has changed)
• What security of tenure did the individual have in respect of each residence.
• How is each residence furnished.
• If the individual is married or is in a civil partnership where does the family spend its time.
• At which residence is the individual registered to vote
• Where is the individual's place of work.”

 

Council's (LA) check list for determining 'Main Residence' 

 

How to establish if a home is a sole or main residence

Whenever doubt is expressed about a person's sole or main residence, it is possible to paint a much clearer picture of the situation by asking a series of questions:

Property related questions

• Do you own the property at...?
• If yes, how long have you owned it?
• If no, is it rented and how long is your lease/tenancy?
• Do you own any other property?
• Do you pay rent or any other charges for the accommodation you are using while you are away?
• Is the accommodation provided by your employer whilst you are working away?
• Is the property at ... your marital home and does your partner reside there throughout the year?

Personal details

• Where do you consider to be your sole or main residence?
• Why do you consider that property to be you sole or main residence?
• Where are you registered for voting?
• Where do you keep the majority of your possessions?
• Are you leaving the property at ... to work or for a holiday?
• Will you be absent from the property continuously for the period stated or will you return periodically?
• Do you have any children of school age? If yes, where are they educated?
• Are the household bills in your name?
• If you have a bank account, where is the branch?

Employment related questions

• Are you a citizen of the country where you are working?
• Where are you registered for Income Tax?
• Is your contract of employment for a limited period or indefinite?
• How long have you been employed in this job?
• When you are on leave from this job, do you return to the property at ... or do you go elsewhere?

 

 

 

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Remembering , of course, that if it is a residential boat, it should (must) be fitted by a Gas Safe registered plumber.

Hah!  I was too busy at work to fit my own so I contacted a local GSR guy to come to the marina and fit it for me. Which he did. In the well deck!

 

He then came back at his own expense to remove it to the gas locker and replace the gas pipe up to the first appliance. 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Hah!  I was too busy at work to fit my own so I contacted a local GSR guy to come to the marina and fit it for me. Which he did. In the well deck!

 

He then came back at his own expense to remove it to the gas locker and replace the gas pipe up to the first appliance. 

Getting a qualified person does not mean the job is done correctly, but it does give you a piece of paper to pass onto the insurance company (if needed)

Edited August 17, 2020 by Alan de Enfield