Sissy Seats

[m0mcx]

What are those welded-on stools called on the stern of a semi-trad / trad boat? Boat builder says they can't fit them anymore due to health and safety.

 

Is this right?

 

Regards,

 

Callum.

[Gary Peacock]

The industry term is "Ponce seats"

 

Sorry but you did ask!

[m0mcx]

Ponce? Great name! It would suit me!!

 

Health and Safety issue are they?

 

C.

[DHutch]

A stool, on a trad stern....

 

What you want is a wheelhouse....

[Scotty]

What are those welded-on stools called on the stern of a semi-trad / trad boat?

 

Not sure I understand the 'safety thing'

 

But what about perching your posterior one of these:

 

 

I'm not sure what they're called, but i bet Gary will as it's a ledgard boat

[sarahavfc]

I think they are called Taff rails.

[Teadaemon]

Not sure I understand the 'safety thing'

 

I forget the exact details of when/where, but IIRC there was a case investigated by the MAIB recently where a novice hirer was caught between the tiller and one of those seats and ended up going headfirst over the side and into the prop. Not pleasant to say the least.

 

relevant MAIB Safety Digest - it's the first case mentioned.

[Scotty]

We're off topic sorry m0mcx,

 

Canal's aren't safe places, gunwales, trad sterns, lock ladders, balance beams, cills are all dangerous if you're not paying attention.

Are they going ban them all too?

 

 

 

Taff rails

You see, I knew that - I'm more used to the cruiser style wrap around style, but still!

[Teadaemon]

We're off topic sorry m0mcx,

 

Canal's aren't safe places, gunwales, trad sterns, lock ladders, balance beams, cills are all dangerous if you're not paying attention.

Are they going ban them all too?

You see, I knew that - I'm more used to the cruiser style wrap around style, but still!

 

Well they're not banned as such - MAIB recommendations are just that, they don't have the force of law behind them. On the other hand, the whole point of having an organisation like the MAIB is to ensure that people don't keep making the same mistakes. As it happens, the only recommendation they make regarding these seats or rails is that if they're present they're high enough that it's not possible to trip over them, a fairly sensible suggestion, IMHO.

[saltyseadog]

In South Wales we call them Tory Seats - because only arseholes sit on them.

What are those welded-on stools called on the stern of a semi-trad / trad boat? Boat builder says they can't fit them anymore due to health and safety.

 

Is this right?

 

Regards,

 

Callum.

[m0mcx]

Scotty,

 

Yes - that's the ones. Now called Taff rails are they?

 

What are the Ponce seats then, the same?

 

Callum.

[howardang]

Scotty,

 

Yes - that's the ones. Now called Taff rails are they?

 

What are the Ponce seats then, the same?

 

Callum.

Taff rails are actually the wooden capping on ships rails but some seats on narrow boat sterns are not unlike sections of taff rails.

 

As far as the safety issue of seats at the counter is concerned, there is a famous saying at sea that "only fools and first trippers sit on rails" and this also applies to those who stand behind the tiller when under way. The tragic accident with the cruiser stern quoted earlier is a horrific example of what can happen to the unwary.

 

 

Howard Anguish

[DHutch]

In South Wales we call them Tory Seats - because only arseholes sit on them.

Haha!

[ChrisPy]

I will decline to comment on how Bristle-ions refer to south welsh folk .....................

 

but they are always happy when the bridge is closed

[Gary Peacock]

Not sure I understand the 'safety thing'

 

But what about perching your posterior one of these:

 

 

I'm not sure what they're called, but i bet Gary will as it's a ledgard boat

 

OK lets open the can of worms then.

 

In Europe new built manufactured boats (Don't lets get into DIY! ) have to comply with the RCD which encompasses all craft from jet skis to gin palaces.

 

The majority of those craft lets say 90% plus will be cruisers and yachts so the RCD is flavoured more towards them.

 

So the RCD requirement is very much for enclosed cockpits, rails and man overboard prevention. (Safety!)

 

Narrowboats are an oddity probably not even 1% of craft falling under the RCD, but they still have to legally comply.

 

So legally the stern should be enclosed, on the boat above this should also include a rail, chain or rope from each seat to the cabin side.

 

We fit the seats and offer to fit the chain, if customers want to chop them off after they can.

 

If someone falls off a trad stern without rails and is killed the boat builder will potentially face prosecution.

 

If you build a boat without rails or at least attempted compliance you are committing an offence that carries a £5K and or 3 months imprisonment penalty.

 

Now that is the law without getting into to arguments about how safe or not safe the rails are.

 

It's an easy life boatbuilding isn't it?

[magpie patrick]

Good lord, didn't realise it had got that bad! BTW the accident happened off a cruiser stern, not a semi-trad, and I think most people would reckon that a cruiser stern needs a rail round it.

 

Ripple (semi-trad) has taff rail seats, but I won't let anyone sit on them under way. nor will I let anyone stand on the counter when we're under way except in readiness to get off (and then I prefer them to edge along the gunwale, out of the way of the tiller). I've considered sawing the taff rails off but in view of Gary's post above I've dropped that one. I also notice elderly parents often steady themselves with the taff rail when getting on and off.

 

Gary, My semi trad has doors between it and the counter, when closed the deck is totally enclosed: this would probably be RCD compliant without the taff rails I'd have thought.

[Gary Peacock]

Good lord, didn't realise it had got that bad! BTW the accident happened off a cruiser stern, not a semi-trad, and I think most people would reckon that a cruiser stern needs a rail round it.

 

Ripple (semi-trad) has taff rail seats, but I won't let anyone sit on them under way. nor will I let anyone stand on the counter when we're under way except in readiness to get off (and then I prefer them to edge along the gunwale, out of the way of the tiller). I've considered sawing the taff rails off but in view of Gary's post above I've dropped that one. I also notice elderly parents often steady themselves with the taff rail when getting on and off.

 

Gary, My semi trad has doors between it and the counter, when closed the deck is totally enclosed: this would probably be RCD compliant without the taff rails I'd have thought.

 

That sounds like what the RCD wants to see. Before everyone jumps up in the air and screams about the evils of the RCD it's main purpose is safety and although it manages to upset everyone especially the builders safety is the priority.

[Machpoint005]

I will decline to comment on how Bristle-ions refer to south welsh folk .....................

 

but they are always happy when the bridge is closed

 

That's why it's free to travel east across the bridge!

 

Back on the safety angle, though, you quite often see a trad stern boat with bodies hanging off the gunwales near the back. That's clearly not safe, but a trad stern with the cabin doors closed (designed steered from inside, of course) would presumably be fully compliant with the RCD.

 

Ian

[Bullfrog]

Can we get on record that Taffrail some times spelt tafrail has got nothing at all to do with Wales!

 

"taff·rail (tfrl, -rl)

n. Nautical

1. The rail around the stern of a vessel.

2. The flat upper part of the stern of a vessel, made of wood and often richly carved.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Alteration of tafferel, carved panel, from Dutch tafereel, panel for carving or painting, from Middle Dutch tafeleel, tafereel, from Old French tablel; see tableau. "

 

So there!

 

David (from Wales)

[howardang]

Good lord, didn't realise it had got that bad! BTW the accident happened off a cruiser stern, not a semi-trad, and I think most people would reckon that a cruiser stern needs a rail round it.

Yes, you're correct of course - the accident was on a cruiser stern. However, the potential is there in equal measure on any boat - trad, semi trad or cruiser - for those people who will insist in standing behind or to one side of the tiller when under way.

 

Howard Anguish

[magpie patrick]

Yes, you're correct of course - the accident was on a cruiser stern. However, the potential is there in equal measure on any boat - trad, semi trad or cruiser - for those people who will insist in standing behind or to one side of the tiller when under way.

 

Howard Anguish

 

I should have added that steering from the counter is banned on Ripple too: I do wonder why people by trad sterns and then try and hold a party on the back deck, that's why I've got a semi-trad. Sociable, and peace of mind with young kids and dogs on board

[Gary Peacock]

I should have added that steering from the counter is banned on Ripple too: I do wonder why people by trad sterns and then try and hold a party on the back deck, that's why I've got a semi-trad. Sociable, and peace of mind with young kids and dogs on board

 

A bit of the problem is that old carrot about if modern built boats are traditional in any way at all and is that enough of an excuse not to build safer designs?