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Evening, this boat has been out of the water for 24 hours. Wondering if these are normal rust patches or microbial/biological corrosion.

Hello Canalworld! Firstly, thank you so much for the wealth of knowledge and advice that I've received from you all over the past couple years, and all without ever having had to make a post. I knew the day would come though. I've owned my 55ft narrowboat built in 1991 for two years now. She was built by R&D, and had a survey on the hull in 2019. The thinnest part of the baseplate that came up with the ultrasound was 8.8mm on what was originally 10mm steel. Myself and my wife have been living on board full time for almost two years now. There's always something to do in terms of maintenance, and I've kept on top of it so far. We love the practical hand on approach to life. Recently, I'd noticed some white mold had been growing on some of the plywood that makes up the under-bed storage, where it is sat near to the black water toilet waste tank. This is a large (I have no idea of the capacity) grey plastic tank that sits under the bed, cut into the wooden floor and extending below the wall and into the bathroom, with a drop through toilet installed. Upon further inspection, I discovered that the ply of the floor had become weak and brittle around the tank, as if it had been exposed to lots of damp and then having dried over the summer. After having ripped some of this weakened wood away, I've discovered just how rusty the floor has become underneath. Large flakes of on average 6mm thick rust can be easily pulled away from the floor all around the tank. I'm aware of this apparently only being 0.6mm of steel lost, or a tenth of the thickness of the rust. How accurate is this however? And would this have been counted as good steel during the ultrasonic survey, or are they pretty accurate in just measuring the solid steel? It appears that there is a thin rubbery coating on top of the rust. I guess this is old treatment/coating that seems to have done more harm than good. The moisture appears to have gotten underneath and even been trapped by it, which has caused the rust to bubble up with the coating still on top. This looked quite dramatic and worrying when it was first revealed. My suspicion is that the black water tank is causing condensation in the winter. The tank is not insulated, and only had a single sheet of thin polystyrene placed, not secured, on top of it. This had began to smell, I assume from the damp and mold, and has now been removed. I am (mentally) prepared to scrape back and treat the area with Vactan, having done a similar job on the rusty welldeck. However, I'm of course worried about putting a hole in the floor. I've heard it from both sides: "It's always at least 10x worse than it looks, so get in there with the scraper and grinder" Vs "I put my finger straight through the floor of my boat and tickled a fish" Essentially, I'm looking to insulate the black water tank, so as to stop further condensation. What would be the best way of doing this? I assume that I'm going to have to move the tank anyway to get to the rust below and treat that. Afterwards, should I wrap it in something? Try to coat the entire thing in spray foam? What about the bottom? Fill the gap between the floor and the tank with foam? I have a big pot of Vactan, but what else should I put down on top of that, if anything? And ultimately, would I be wise to wait until I can have her pulled out of the water and then scrape back all the rust, or will I be safe to go for it whilst she's still floating? I've been hoping to apply fresh blacking early next summer, but I don't want to have to wait until then to fix the problem, especially going through another winter of condensation building up. I also don't want to leave it to get worse for any longer than I have too, but I'm also not made or money (otherwise I'd be in dry dock already). And in the worst case, any recommended dry docks between Tring and Northampton? I shall attempt to upload some small videos that I have of the problem and be back to update. Here's a screenshot showing underneath the tank. The grey at the top left is the tank, which is sat on the steel girder that runs across the floor (do these have a name?). You can seen the moisture on there. This photo does not show the full extent of the rust. Thank you for reading my life story. Edit: I've uploaded three short videos showing what it looks like under the floor and the tank. https://streamable.com/82wcmo https://streamable.com/5lx2dx https://streamable.com/lz5kip

Hi I have a narrowboat built by Coalcraft. The watertank is steel not stainless steel. I empty the tank every September, October when I winterise the boat. In April when I wake the boat up the initial water from the tank shows signs of rust. The watertank is under the deck and gas locker at the front of the boat Has anyone else experience this? Has anyone got into the watertank to de-rust it and paint it? Thanks

Hi everyone, we are new to the community and new to boating, so looking for some advice on a boat we are considering buying (for a small business with commercial mooring; not live aboard). Before viewing the boat we were advised (by boating friends, sadly not local so couldn't come along) to look out for rust on the waterline and in the bilge. There seems to be rust in both areas (see pics), though we're unsure how superficial. The owner unfortunately has not had a survey done, though it has been out for reblacking about three years ago and he says should be slightly overdue another three coats now (Comastic). It's a 55ft 1999 narrowboat which will also be needing a new engine. Obviously we'd be looking to get a full survey done before commiting anything, but my question is, based on these issues, is it worth it at all or would it be better (particularly given our inexperience) to walk away (or possibly try to haggle down substantially)? We're not shy of doing the work, but would like to pay a fair price and know what we might be walking into. Perhaps estimated price ranges (for boat or work) would also be useful, though I know this might not really be enough info to go on. Thanks in advance! Attached are some pics we took of the rusty areas:

Greetings all, hope you enjoyed the rain this morning! So I've pulled out the bed (that was seemingly made from American white oak and old pallets), and dismantled the room. We now have access under the shower tray, and the bilge below. The marine ply is a little warped here. Might be from water damage? Also found some semi-precious stones that belonged to previous owners... The pump is connected to the water system as well as the waste.... I suppose to allow the system to be drained? The hose that you see leaving the pump connects to a copper pipe of around 10mm diameter to pass through the hull. Is this normal? Upon inspection, I've discovered that there's rather a lot of brown, flaky stuff down there.... The bilge is dry to the touch. The shower tray holds water, and unless you operate the pump, water will remain in the waste for days... so my guess is that the damage was caused either by poor tiling, or that it's from a previous installation. There is some thick black plastic on the bilge floor (2nd image) , that doesn't seem to extend beneath the waste. The waste is in contact with the steel.... this seems odd to me. I'd want to put the plastic beneath the shower...so I wonder if it's been plled up in order to deal with a leak? Or, perhaps condensation is forming when the waste has hot water in it? I had a scrape... and there's a fair bit of rust... an interesting experience - knowing that the canal is 10mm away, as you scrape a good 3mm away! Didn't show up in the survey. Probably have to pull the entire shower installation out to get to the bilge here - which I want to do anyway. The inspection-hatch at the stern is dry and rust free.. Any suggestions on what course to take? I considered cutting away the warped ply, and treating as much of the exposed bilge as possible, before pulling apart the adjacent bathroom.

Is anyone able to comment on my procedure described below and/or use of Fertan instead of Vactan...? I have some rusting on the inside of my steel hull caused by condensate on the exposed swims. It has got quite bad at the bottom where the condensate collects and ultrasound testing suggests it may need plating when the boat next comes out the water. In the meantime I am treating the cause of the problem and wondered if anyone can chime in with some advice... this is my procedure: 1. take back the loose rust and paint with scrapers, a chipping hammer and wire brush (completed: see photos) 2. wash down with detergent and rinse 3. one coat with a rust converter (see below) 4. overcoat with impermeable paint such as Bitumastic 4. lay rockwool over steel surfaces 5. cover with a thin impermeable polyurethane sheet 6. lay over 12mm MDF I bought 5 litres of Vactan but discovered afterwards that it won't cure at temperatures below 10°C. I confirmed this with a test patch overnight. There is a good discussion about this here. In short, Vactan is a vinyl-acrylic polymer emulsion which dries to a plastic film via evaporation, hence why it won't work in low temperatures. The Vactan is returnable and as I don't want to wait until the spring and the steel temp has risen to 10°C it seems that Fertan might be a better alternative as it supposedly cures at temps above 1°C. The Fertan blurb says 'a "shot-blasting" result can be achieved by simply unscrewing the top of the container and working a brush or spray on to the rusted surface'. I am skeptical about this but from the research I've done it does seem to be a cost effective solution to my problem. I wondered if anyone has experience of Fertan and if anyone could give me any comments or advice regards treating my rust problem before I plough on into the unknown. Some photos:

in the throes of buying a boat an assume owner shi p in net few days. For some reason \ Maxview Gazelle aerial is mounted on a block of wood about 3inches all round. This seems to be stuck on with mastic and rust is all around this and its badly blistered. Intend to have the boat painted next season but would like to scrape these bad rust spots off and temporary repair for over wintering. Was intending to sand down and apply Hammerite just for the winter- does that seems ok or can I just apply a primer?

Hey, any advice would be greatly appreciated. My steel Hull boat had water sitting in the cabin for a while and has done a number rusting it from the inside. My question is, can I fill the pitting with weld whilst the boat is in the water or will the heat melt the water side blacking which would leave it vulnerable this winter. Thanks a lot

Hi again, I'm back with another old boat problem.. Yesterday we noticed water in the cabin near the front. I checked under the well deck, it was about an inch deep on top of the concrete ballast. Panic set in, could this be canal water? It certainly looked murky. I hand pumped a few buckets out, and it didn't seem to be getting worse, so we pressed on to our destination where I could do some further investigation. Then in particular shallow pound, the boat sat on the bank and listed as I filled the lock. I looked under and noticed water coming out of the hole marked below in red. Some also seemed to be coming from the blue area. Behind this bulkhead is my water tank. I've been assuming that it's a separate stainless steel vessel, but could it just be open liquid behind the bulkhead?? If it is a separate tank, I'm guessing there would be a breather that overflows when I fill the tank up. If that's the case I can't see how I would ever fill my tank without getting water into this area. Finally, in this photo you can see where the water was pooling. When I wet vac it, it looks like water is oozing from the rusted iron. This is upsetting.. (it's upside down for some reason) 1) Does it seem likely my tank is separate stainless steel or just water behind the bulkhead? 2) What would the correct action be too fix this issue? 3) The rust looks quite bad to me, does it need professional treatment or can I do it myself?

We have had some issues with our Hull rusting; we thought we had the problem fixed in October but the rust has returned! The issue has been caused by electrolysis but we don't know enough about electrics to go looking for the problem. Does anyone know of anybody in the cambridgeshire/Bedfordshire area who can help?

Boat hired from ABC Hire Boats, Union Wharf Marina, Market Harborough, may 2014. We expected a nice boat.

So, as you may know, I have a new boat! New boat - new surprises.... Yesterday was our first day on board and we spent it removing sodden rotten furniture and flooring from the aft cabin. It started by lifting the mattress, few spots of mould on the ply below. So, with the mattress removed to the well deck I lifted the ply, more mould in the drawers below that. Drawers were stuck solid (when we viewed the boat I took them to be painted shut - doh! Learning experience) they were MDF, and had expanded to fill their holes completely... Quickly after this I was screwing and sawing and using my trusty adjustable spanner (hammer) to get as far in to the mess as I could and see what was going on. When I reached what was left of the floor beneath it all I found water, bubbling up between the pieces of composite board that weren't turned to soil. We removed enough scrap wood (soil) to completely fill the back of my estate car (and weigh heavily on it's suspension) and we pumped about 15 bucket loads of water out of them there bilges. Along the way I was of course hunting for the source of the water. It didn't seem to be in the bathroom or kitchen (from surface looking at least, and all pipe work was reasonably easy to view, either running exposed or at the back of kitchen cupboards. I couldn't see right behind the bath, but it looked dry at least... Chief culprit seemed likely to be the water tank, which runs across the boat immediately forward of the engine (it's a trad stern, which had a fixed crossbed, and no access to the engine room) But, upon excavation nothing seemed to be leaking from the water tank either. However, I removed some of the panels in the wall between what was the bedroom (now closer resembles a green house, with hydroponic system in place on the floor) and the engine bay, to try and get to the back of the water tank, I found myself looking straight down at the engine. I had expected (mostly from reading on this forum) to find a metal bulkhead separating the engine and cabin bilges, which I had assumed to be 2' or 3' high (probably running up to the forward end of the floor boards which are places over the engine....) However, what I found was a 20cm lip, forming the edge of the engine oil drip tray (and the same height as the steel forming this tray on the other three sides of the engine, and running off to each side of the boat. So, I think I found where the water was coming in. The boat has a manually switched bilge pump in the engine bay, and the survey suggested that the stern gland is not in top condition. The previous owners were less than responsible, and he actually admitted to me that he only started the engine once in the four years they owned the boat - given this, I doubt they pumped out the bilges, or even checked them, very often if at all. Now, I am not just writing all of this to relay my tale to you all, (though that is part of the reason, and I hope you are enjoying it), I would like some advice on how best to proceed. Current situation: Floor completely removed for about 10' forward of engine bay "bulkhead". All floor that I have now reached is good - I am unable to proceed just digging with an adjustable spanner, proper tools like a saw will be required to go further. There is a logical stop point on the far side of the bathroom, about 3' further along the boat, I will cut floor to here, and hopefully find everything forward of this point is OK. Floor in living area has decent wood laminate on top. I do not want to remove this if I don't have to. Floor in kitchen has a kitchen on top. As above don't want to remove if I don't have to. One section below sofa in living area allows for inspection to under floor level (not bilges) and reveals no sign of rot. I will cut or drill here to gain access to bilge to aid with assessment. I may be able to gain access to bilge in small locker below the well deck. All the bilges that I have opened so far (in the aft end of the boat) were full of water. They are unsurprisingly very dirty and rusty. I intend to clean, rust treat (owatrol?) and paint, before applying new floor (marine ply?) with insulation and damp membrane. With my current course of action I wont be able to access the bilges forward of the bathroom (middle of boat). While I am fairly confident that the floor here is OK, the bilges will have been wet, and there will almost certainly be rust going on... I am in the process of sourcing a dehumidifier I can take with me back to the boat on Wednesday. I will be on board full time working on this (and hopefully get as far as fitting some sort of bed!) for a week and a half following. What I'd like to know: Best way to clean back rust. Best way treat the steel. Which paint to use in the bilges. How far should I go? How to insulate under the floor. What about a damp proof membrane? What about best construction methods? - batten on top of steel 'rib'? Glue/self tapped? I know there have been posts before, but I just hunted around and couldn't find much which covered most of the above, please feel free to point me to other threads, or just tell me what keywords you think I should be searching. Many thanks! BTW: The irony of my boats name has not escaped me.

We are in the process of over plating our swim and a length of the side. We would obviously like to ensure that any further rust damage is limited. We were thinking of using cold galvanized paint on the seams and other areas. Can we black on top of that please. Soon after. Or does anyone recommend a high zinc primer which can be blacked over ASAP. I know it’s a crap time of year to be over plating. Thank you.

I bought a canal boat about six months go, it is a 50ft rose cruiser stern canal boat, ex hire and has been extremely neglected over the years. Previously has been over plated. It has been surveyed and the surveyors are extremely happy with the thickness of the steel. Have had welding done, and have put a lot of love and energy into restoring this boat into a live aboard. Really need some help and advice to help me get to the finish line on this project. Whilst Grinding out and de-rusting my bilges inside the cabin of the boat i exposed two small holes of the old steel. Unfortunately the boat was flooded whilst in dry dock lol, and the hulls must have filled with water and now there is water trapped in-between the plates of steel on both the starboard and port sides plus the bottom. The boat is now on hardstanding, out of water but there is still water coming into the cab. When I jump up and down inside the boat I can hear the water sloshing around. The water has not been in there more than two months, but I am worried this may cause serious problems. Is this is a case of drilling into the gap and extracting the water or worse case scenario over plating again. Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thank you in advance, T.

Hi I am starting to repaint my narrowboat. Having watched John Barnard video on youtube and http://narrowboats-freyja-and-christina.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/hired-scabbler.html I am looking at hiring or buying a scabbler to remove the paint. Has anyone used one? if so any tips re model, replacing any parts? Has anyone purchased one, if so any tips re model, replacing any parts? Thanks

Hi there, This is my first post so if you need clarifications, please ask. My girlfriend wanted a wooden floor on our Springer so I fitted a hardfloor that can be removed. A couple of months ago I noticed water remaining trapped between the floor and the wood panels. I thought it was condensation and checked all pipes. Everything was normal. Today I stripped the kitchen section and found a hatch. I removed thde "lid" ( a piece of wood with a hole) and found stones ( which I am assuming to be the ballards). The whole insert was covered by a inch of water. I removed some stones and noticed heavy flaking due to rust. I pumped out the water (hand pump) and now I am left with a dilemma: Do I need to remove all the rust, apply a rust converter, prime it and paint it? Am I risking by removing the rust? Boat is a V shape, completely overplated 3 years ago to top standards.

Hi, I have just looked at a 36ft Springer (perhaps early 80's) narrowboat for sale, priced at 10,000, as a project boat. No survey yet - owners have had her for 3 years, in those years they have replated on both front and stern after a survey, and blacked and annoded once (now due for renewal) The project: 1. Pre-purchase: Survey + It is due blacking, annodes and engine service (potentially the costs of this, and any replating needed, could be deducted from 10,000 boat cost) 2. Interior Hull: Need to create access in the floor to the interior hull as it there is currently no hatch etc. - Whilst doing the floor, thought would be a good idea to swap (apparently lumps of metal) ballast for engineering blocks, and, do work on the interior steel hull if needed (wire cup brush, rust treat with Vactan, and overcoat with something - bilge paint OR red oxide???) - Then insulate, plywood boards, and wooden board flooring. 3. Panelling: Taking down wall and ceiling boards which have been B&Q bodged in, to be able to redo with nicer wood, but most importantly, electrics and plumbing. 4. Wiring: There is wiring for 12v and 240v, however 240v is not plugged in at the moment, and the owners are running off solar (owners don't trust the wiring) SO would need completely re-wiring the solar (as it is currently just strung around the boat), utility battery for ceiling lights, 12v sockets and 240v sockets, and waterpump for shower/water. 5. Plumbing: There is also plumbing, but they currently don't use as they removed the old watertank, and currently run off a jerry can of water for the sink, and a cassette toilet. The plumbing also currently runs under the floor, so all old plumbing needs to be ripped out, and replumbed in the wall cavities - would like to plumb in sink, shower and potentially septic tank toilet, and then need to get a new watertank. 6. Other Misc: There is a working gas oven and hob, which seems to be fine and functional, so maybe gas is ok? Also a good, working coal/wood burner. Although engine needs a service, she ran well, when they took us for a 1 hr cruise, i think it is a Lister aircooled engine. So, if the survey all went well, does this sound like too much - In all honesty this would be my first narrowboat, but I am on a budget, hence only being able to afford budget boats. Time is not an issue, although being able to live in it by spring would be great. Main questions; - does the tactic to restore the inner hull sound like an ok approach, if it needed doing? What is the realistic expectation for the steel interior hull of a 80's Springer? - is wiring/plumbing possible to do myself, or is it needed to have a professional for BSC and insurnnce? In which case, how much could i expect for full plumbing/wiring? - what work could i expect to do myself, and what should i look for quotes for? Any advice will be HUGELY appreciated in terms of costs expected, or time taken, or regulations to adhere to when doing up a boat. This boat, technically is liveable, as they have been fine for 3 years, but needing this work, what price for it would be realistic? Thank you!

Good evening, Here are some pics of my bilge after scraping and applying Kurust to turn the rust into something else? from bow to stern each section gets worse, the front 3 sections seem good to acceptable but the last section I lifted a good Kilogram of rusted debris, when I put the rust inhibitor down it poured into a hole never to be seen again! Which leads to me to the idea, can I put a plate over it? is that an acceptable fix? is it necessary? and affordable? (will be done by welder) (it is already over plated on the outside) will it need a support strut or would a plate alone suffice?

Where do old boats go when they die? - don't say 'to the bottom of the canal' - but that is likely if neglected. They leak and sink. Then CRT are stuck with the problem of moving it and charging the owner, if known. What does CRT do with a wreck - sell it? - then what does the new owner do with it . How long can a boat be kept going - and at what stage does it become uneconomical to maintain it? - then back to the first question - where do boats go when they die? Underlying this question is concern for the remaining life of my boat - it is 40 years old and rusty and completely watertight (bone dry in the bilge, not a drop of water anywhere) - but I assume it needs serious work on the hull due to rusting - at least blacking - and maybe plating - but to what extent ? I am planning to take it to a boatyard for a hull survey - but that will only tell me it needs work - but to what extent ? I would like some help in assessing effectiveness of different types of remedial work and how they reflect in estimated life of a boat and the sales value - with a view to selling it.

Hello This is my first post. After years of dreaming, I have finally been able to buy myself a 66ft Springer. She's completely empty inside, being a project boat. She has some loose planks for a floor, so I am going to put flooring in. My question is about rust though. In the bottom of the boat (inside), where the ballast lies, the former owner started putting new rust treatment in. But it is only a small part of the whole boat. How necessary is this? There's a LOT to do on her before I move in. I spent my day scraping and brushing up the rust "dust". The rust is all bone dry, really more like years of dust. But do I REALLY need to scrape and paint the inside of the hull? Will it really eat up my boat? How critical is this? *I realise this is a dumb question and I should know more - but this is my first boat, on a shoestring budget, so please try not be too harsh*