luctor et emergo

Chrome don't get ya home. There is no Hammerite (Matt Black) Option?

Or the "only polished when the (grand)children are around" option.....

I don't know your finances, but perhaps selling the house before buying the boat might be a more prudent course of action? At any rate, good luck with the build, and selling your house.

Now to find a colth to clean the coffee of my monitor.

I was under the impression that it took longer to stop a boat, because the prop in reverse was not as powerfull as in forward? See, I still have much to learn, that's why I'm following the forum closely. And apart from learning a lot, the entertainment factor is also high... As for signals, and rules, I think you must be carefull when you deviate from the rules, and start using the 'commonly accepted' rules. The earlier analogy with headlight signals is a good case in point. The majority of the accidents that happen involve foreign drivers, who use the headlights signals as they are meant. Only foreign truckers will be familiar with the 'go ahead colleage, you have room to move' flash of the head lights, because that is a universal signal for truckers when they overtake each other. It indicates for example when the overtaking truck has cleared the other vehicle, as that can be tricky to judge just in the mirror. Where often a problem arises is when a faster truck wants to pull out into the middle lane, and indicates to warn other road users of his intent ( I know, not strickly correct either, as you are only suposed to indicate when you are going to move, after you have checked and confirmed that their is space to do so, but hey..). Now a British car, or another truck, may well decide to ease of on the =accellerator for a moment, and give the truck some room to pull out. We indicate this by flashing our head lights. Now a continental driver, may think that the truck is going to pull out anyway, and may flasjh his head lights as a 'whoo, watch out, i'm here' warning. The truck interprets the flash as a 'go ahead' signal, pulls out, and crunch... another 4 hour moterway closure ensues.. It is at all times the responsibility of the person in charge of a vehicle (or craft) to be aware of the rules and to abide by them. To be honest, I'm surprised that their is no minimum standard (with or with out a licence) of competence or knowledge required to sail/drive/pilot a boat below 72'

Some shops that sell it will take it in for disposal, or you can take it to a local council amminety site.

Really? I may not have a boat (yet), but I know that boats don't have brakes, and that they only respond well to the rudder when under power, so avoiding a collision when two 20ton + boats are drifting into each others path, with only one (or neither... ) helmsman knowing what to do, or where to go, seems to me much more cause for disaster than a car, which has brakes, and therefore can be stopped, controled, in a relatively short distance. Yes, I know, idiot drivers etc... I see them every night, and have to deal with them. The above assumes that the speed is appropriate to the conditions.. 50 mph on an A road, is fine. If you do 50mph in a build up zone, your brakes are not going to avoid a collision either (if, say, somebody pulls out of a side road). I suppose I could compare stopping a 20 ton boat with stopping a 20 ton truck (or even a car for that matter ) on ice....

Access to the head would be sorted during a re-fit. I presume that it will get a complete new 'suite' anyway. I would like to install a shower if possible. Cooking on that seems no problem, it is large enough for a frying pan (breakfast.. ) and a kettle, and dinner can bubble away in a large pot during the day. One Camion Stew coming up...

Thanks Andy, that is a great help. Looks like a good starting point for a conversion, bed/seat on one side, cooker/cupboard on the other, and a stove in the middle. I take it that the toilet is behind the stove? As a matter of fact, that looks like a mine range.. that woud save on the need to install a cooker, or even the need for a gas system altogether... "Bill"

Yes, I do plan on living on the boat during the time I'm out, how much that is remains to be seen. As long as I can create a space in which I can sit, cook, eat and sleep, I'm happy. If this works out, I will be spending my days out on the deck at any rate, so I don't need a very large area for living space. And on the plus side, a smaller space is easier to keep clean, and to heat... Who wants to be indoors anyways? I rather like the look of these 'skips' to be honest. I don't have a, rose tinted or otherwise, pre conceived idea of a working boat, and these boats do look like they will do the job with ease. The fact that a tank can be placed in the middle should make weight distribution much easier, especially when you consider that the weight gradually changes when the waste tank fills, and the fresh tank empties. The flat deck should also make live much easier when you are lugging pipes about, to connect to the other boat. In fact, if I was in the market for this right now, I would consider this boat. So Carl, if a boat like this was owned by a caring operator, rather than a 'employee', and looked after with due care, what are the specific problems that one should look out for?

Now that would be a very interesting boat to start with. I wonder what the accomodation is like? The hold would be a perfect place for water and waste tanks etc, and the front looks like it may be a good place to keep something like the freezer... A 'floating skip'....? well, I supose. But on the other hand, I don't expect that you will find a 'historic ex-working boat', for that kind of money. Having spend so many years driving, and 'living' (at least during the week) in what amounts to a large filing cabinet, parked in lay-by's with other HGV's driving past at 56mph, I'm not fussy what the thing looks like.... as long as the doors lock, and the bed is fairly comfortable, I'm happy. Same will go for a boat, if it does the job, reliably, I'm not to worried about the outward appearance.

Not so much a case of being brave, but grasping an opportunity if it presents itself. At the moment I'm looking at a few options to possibly make it work, mainly what boat I'll use for it. I think I'll need either a widebeam, or a working boat, as a NB will be a pain to convert. I looked on the usual sources on the net, but have had no joy finding a usefull boat ( for a reasonable price) as yet. Where is a good place to look for a 'proper' working boat ?

no, a minivan is not an agricultural vehicle. Agri vehicles must be for agri use only, by design.

Hmm, I remember something about some Irish guys who tried to cross the Irish sea in a dinghy, using a Road Map of the British Isles, a few years ago.. Can you actually sail a NB across the Channel? Apart from the navigational equipment that you need, where do you stow the life boat..?

The NOLET distillery in Schiedam makes Ketel One Vodka. Not Horse urine, although Rotterdam does have a brewery espescially for that... as has Amsterdam... Whilst you can't beat a nice jug of (real) ale, a few jars of Grolsh (the stuff from the Dutch brewery, not the c**p brewed in Burton) go down nicely. As for the second part, what is involved in getting a NB to the continent?

It would help if we knew what is below the poles. I think hangers is most likely. If it was for mobility, they would have to go along the whole length of the ceiling?

Two possibilities are forming at the moment. Depending on the weight that the boat can carry, I'm looking at a tank between 1000 and 2000 gallons (that is a good size to fit with the onward disposal). It would also depend on any other wares that I might sell, if for example coal would be added, just 40 bags is as much as 1000 kgs, so that would need to be taken into account. Or a large chest freezer... I have looked at two options at the moment, either a smallish narrow boat, towing a butty which holds the tank, or a bigger (widebeam) boat, which I could convert to carry the tank etc in the front. I looked at a tug, which may be a good starting point, as the large front area would be ideal for a tank storage conversion.. Taking the 5 hour trip on the Caen locks into consideration, I think that a two weeks on one side, two weeks on the other side, rota might be workable.

" If this boat's a-rocking... " ... Taxi...

Thanks, some good workable ideas. I like the idea of a regular 'contract' service, that will give the client peace of mind that their tank will be emptied regularly, and me some regular income to budget with. I can see a competitive price for regular customers, and a slightly higher price for 'one off' or occassional clients. I'm not sure how long it would take to cover the K&A, nor which part of it I would cover yet, but I suppose a two weekly service should be aimed for. The idea of people leaving a check (or cash) would appeal in instance, but internet banking is worth looking into. I would probably alert people in advance with text, although email may well be a more and more viable alternative, especcially if people want to email a shopping list ahead.

Or an icecream van jingle... I'll get my coat...

Thanks Sue Hmm, contract service, that is an idea. Bit like our window cleaner, who will clean the windows when he is on his round, regardless of us being in.. But I suppose that such long term moorings are more in the Bath and Bristol area? My next step is to contact BW, to establish what licences are needed (and cost ) , and what the regulations for waste carriage on the canal are. And I need to get a spare afternoon or so down the tow path. The frozen food is an idea. Although I'm not sure about running a full size chest freezer on board, I can see this work with a daily re-supply along the route. But lets not get carried away. Thanks for your replies, very helpfull.

Thanks, I thought I read is was around £20, but obviously I would have to get the actuall costs for a proper costing, same as I will first have a walk along the canal, to guage interest out there (not all boaters are on line, or on this forum.. )

If you mean a simple oil and filter change, and can do it yourself, you probably looking at around £50-£80 for consumables (Oil, filters etc) . No idea how much a fitter will charge to do it for you though. I should add a bit more, you need to drain you oil, and coolant (if you do that at the same time), and dispose of those at a collection point. You need to replace and/or clean all the filters for fuel, oil and air, refill the oil and coolant, and probably prime the fuel system if you have had to remove a filter, and air has entered your fuel pipes. Don't forget to check and clean the batteries (unless they are maintannace free) and add some vaseline around the clamps.

So that would be an average of some 300 liters a go? That should not take long to pump, so a reasonable number of boats could be serviced a day. I would initially plan to kind of start on one end, end work my way down the canal, of course depending on where the demand is highest. If I had a 6000 liter holding tank I could do around twenty boats before needing to empty. Drinking water I would have to see what would be required from a health and safety point of view, because it's a food stuff. Stuff in sealed containers is ok, but if my tank supply for what ever reason gives somebody a stomac bug.. But I suppose I could carry bottled water (the big 5liter bottles, not Evian... ). Frozen milk and bread, I had not thought of that, good idea. The price of the pump out is going to be the clincher, I believe that a pump out at a station on the K&A cost around £20 ? So if a service like this would be something between £20 and £30, would that be o.k.? This is only a rough ball park figure of course, it depends largely on the cost of disposal, and licencing.

I've looked a bit further into this, and the praticalities look surmountable, but I have a few more questions. What is the (average) size of a waste tank on board, or the average volume of a waste pump out? How long do you manage between pump outs? considering that it is free to empty a casette, would you be willing to pay a small fee to empty it 'at your mooring', for a small fee? Would you pay to have a bilge pump out? (I'm thinking of the oil and diesel contaminated stuff, which would require disposal. Or is that something that you can do once in a while in a Marina?) I have trown a few ideas around with a colleage at work, and sofar the practical side is pretty much covered. I could provide a pump out tank, and a fresh water tank (for cleaning the waste tank), and disposal of that in bulk can be easily provided (no, not 'over the side' in a field... ). I need to find out if the volumes will work out, to make it financially viable. And to see if it can be done with a single boat, or if a butty would be a better solution. Thanks. Prices would be comparable, weighing the convinience of not having to move (and having it done at a time convinient to you), against the reasonably availabilitty of pumpout points. I'm thinking initially of moving up and down the canal, taking in as a go along. Frequency will depend on the amount of business, could be once a week, or once a month? Depending on the volumes, I may do it 'part time' filling in with Truck driving to pay the bills . Not neccessarily, depending on the volumes, and costs, that side is easily covered.