agg221

A few thoughts. It floats, the survey looks OK and you can probably get a fair few years before it gets worrying. If you are going in for your own survey, can your budget run to lining someone up for a bit of repair welding at the same time? If so, I think I would be inclined to get the hull scraped/wire brushed down, particularly where the pitting is evident, and get the localised pits pad welded over (this is where you overlay weld, rather than cutting out and welding a section in, or welding a plate over the top). Pad welding will deal with the 1-2mm deep pits easily. Having at least some blacking ready to touch in the areas which are damaged would seem like a good idea, even if you don't go for a full blacking. On the inside, how easy is it to get the floors up? If you buy it, I would be inclined to work through it in sections, lifting the floor, moving any ballast out of the way, scraping back any rust and treating and painting it. At least it will then only be deteriorating from one side at a time! For me, it's a basic boat but it has had some care and attention within a budget. The paintwork is OK, it has been blacked and it isn't rusted all over or falling apart. For the price, I think you will struggle to find anything better, and if you approach it as something that will need a bit of ongoing maintenance and TLC I wouldn't expect too many issues. One thing to note, when a boat develops a hole by rusting, unless you are really unlucky it tends to do it gradually. Water starts weeping through, so the bilge pump kicks in more than it used to. Keep an eye out for that happening. Once you start poking about to find the problem, it tends to open up the kind of hole that really is a problem so that is best done not in the water. A roll of patching tape which will stick to wet surfaces, or some underwater epoxy and bits of thin metal plate are handy things to keep just in case, although you will probably never need them. For reference, I used to co-own a wooden butty which when we were first trying to keep it afloat we went over finding the holes and patching them. One was so bad we put a broom handle through it, which created a fairly impressive fountain! Alec

That would be Mr Wiley, purveyor of all kinds of interesting substances, primarily for export to Africa. He has supplied me with many interesting things over the years. An alternative is RK & J Jones, trading as Bird Brand. If you have a legitimate use for it they still do dark brown and, my favourite, jet black (with extra coal tar): https://www.birdbrand.co.uk/shop/woodcare/traditional-jet-black-creosote/ Alec

I wouldn't claim to be an expert exactly, but I did lead some development work looking at alternatives to biocides, driven by industrial demand for something better than what was available post-2003 that would not be subject to the biocide directive. By 2007/8 it had become apparent that what was available in the way of biocidal treatments on the market were showing much shorter life than CCA treated timber. The most high profile was a failure on some children's play equipment which had simply rotted straight through and broke off at around 5yrs old. One of my areas of professional expertise is a process called sol-gel which is a way of making ceramics from solution - it works particularly well with silica. There was some work done in Japan in the 1980s which demonstrated that if you impregnate wood with enough silica using sol-gel treatment it ends up unable to take up enough water for fungi to survive and too unpalatable for insects, but unlike a biocide it is chemically inert (equivalent to a glass bottle). This wasn't cost-effective enough to pursue in the 1980s when CCA was cheap and available, but we revisited it in 2009/10 to see whether it was scalable and the changing position made it viable. The answer turned out to be that it was, but because it relied on an alcoholic solution to work, it then fell foul of the 2010 volatile organic content (VOC) directive so it didn't go anywhere as industry deemed it too difficult to introduce, even though complete solvent recovery was possible. Ho hum, on to the next project. The arsenic compounds in CCA are highly toxic and released when burned or when the wood finally rots away. Not a good thing. The main problem is that there is no way for the average person to know whether an old piece of timber has been treated with CCA. You can hazard a good guess - treatment was only used on softwood which needed to last, and mainly on structural timbers, but I wouldn't want to be burning old softwood of unknown origin on an indoor fire and certainly not on a barbeque. Alec

Sort of, but not quite in that order. The 2003 Biocide Directive resulted in the withdrawal of a lot of treatment options. This included copper chrome arsenate (CCA) which until then had become very common for pressure treatment, and also the more benign copper-based treatments such as Cuprinol, which is Swedish for 'copper oil', the original being a blend of copper naphthanate, linseed oil and genuine turpentine but the final version being copper octanoate in white spirit. Cuprinol treated timber does not produce hazardous products directly when burned, but at particular oxygen levels the copper can catalyse the formation of dioxins, which are distinctly hazardous. Creosote was withdrawn from applications where people were likely to come in contact with it due to certain components in the coal tar being identified as carcinogenic. It is still available for heritage and professional use. Since 2003, the biocides still available have largely been either organic (many based on permethrins) or boron-based. The issue in terms of performance is that the organic biocides degrade naturally so have a fairly short life, and the boron-based ones are water soluble so leach out when exposed to damp. The good news is that the organic type fully combusts and the boron-based type is not as hazardous (borax has long been used as a household cleaner). The withdrawal from the market of most treatments which worked has resulted in a rise of heat treatment because if you aren't going to extend service life you may as well use a cheaper treatment and regard packaging as disposable. Any pallets or similar which are heat treated should be marked HT. The downside is that timber installed in the 1970s-2003 will last decades whereas timber installed after that date will have a much shorter life. Timber installed shortly after 2003 has already reached end of service life in many cases. Alec

You are most welcome. One other comment that might help, regarding zinc which you mentioned in one of your previous posts. There are two different types of 'zinc paint' which work in very different ways. All paints consist primarily of pigments (powder) mixed with a binder. The binder can be dissolved in a solvent, or can be resin-based. Generally, most of the one part parts are solvent-based (the solvent could be water) whereas the two part paints are resin based. There is very little difference, chemically speaking, between an epoxy paint and some Araldite. The pigment determines colour, but also has an influence on how the paint performs. Old-fashioned 'red oxide' paint contains iron oxide pigment, which is basically rust and is pretty permeable in itself, which is why rust just keeps going, as the air and water can go through it. Other pigments form better barriers - one very good pigment is zinc phosphate which forms an excellent barrier. It can have other coloured pigments added too, often iron oxide because it's a familiar colour, so you can get a red oxide coloured zinc phosphate paint (you can also get grey zinc phosphate paints). All zinc phosphate paints work on principle of being a better barrier than iron oxide. An alternative is to have a paint which contains as much powdered zinc metal as possible, with a little binder as possible, and nothing else. There are several trade names including Zinga and Galvafroid. These work on the principle that zinc is more chemically reactive than iron so the zinc is sacrificial, exactly the same as galvanising, metal spraying or the anodes on a boat hull and will give even better electrical protection because they will provide electrochemical protection even to areas where the steel is exposed. To work, these paints have to make electrical contact with bare steel, so they are a complete failure if overcoated on to anything else. In principle they sound great, but unlike galvanising where the zinc is molten or metal spraying where the particles are semi-molten, to make electrical contact between the zinc particles requires as little binder as possible, in the thinnest layer possible. This makes the paint brittle and weak, so it won't take any mechanical impact or abrasion. It's therefore not the right way to go for decks, even disregarding the cost. Alec

A suggested approach for you (others can also be used). For now, just cover it in a quick coat of topcoat when it's as dry as you can get it. The damp autumn weather, plus any direct contact with rain, will have got through the porous red oxide, plus when painting by hand it is very difficult to cover -every- scratch or defect in a single pass and the odds are you miss a bit (one reason several coats are needed, as well as total thickness). You want as little as possible of that damp below the topcoat, but expect some to remain, so it will get a little worse before you sort it out. When it's dry weather, probably next year, rub down well and this will show up any rusted areas as the paint will come off. Ideally you would go right back to bare steel, but it will hold up almost as well if you rub down to expose all the rust. Sanding won't get the rust out of the pits, so a wire brush helps here - drill mounted is much quicker, grinder mounted is quicker still but it depends on what you have and your confidence in using it. On new, smooth, bare steel the use of a rust converter does not help, but on pitted steel it does as you can pretty much guarantee that you will never remove every last trace. There are two types of rust converter - some are based on phosphoric acid and leave a layer of iron phosphate, others are based on tannic acid mixed in a latex suspension, designed to leave a film of latex with conversion underneath - Vactan is the best known of the latter type. With what you are doing, I would go for the phosphoric acid type, apply it after getting the steel as clean as you can and then wipe off the excess pretty quickly so it is only sitting in the pits where you can't remove the rust. Once it has converted/dried, I would then sand over lightly to remove any phosphate from the accessible areas and apply the paint of your choice. Single pack paints are relatively low strength so they wear relatively fast, but they are easy to apply. Two pack paints cure to a much harder, tougher film but they are more difficult to work with. Personally I use two pack brushable epoxy because I have access to a lot of part used tins, but I not everyone is going to want to use it and it is a lot more expensive. At the moment I am using up some Bannoh 1500 in light grey. Bannoh and Chemco International are worth talking to for paint if you do go this route - they sell mainly into industrial markets so do not get the 'marine' premium mark-up, and the quality is good. One big advantage is that it is not porous and lasts for years without topcoating, although it does fade a bit and needs lightly rubbing back. It also bonds well to small levels of surface rust. There are two pack topcoats - epoxies do fade and chalk so are not used for cosmetic areas but most polyurethanes are really not pleasant for anyone without access to the right safety kit due to the curing agents involved (isocyanates). I wouldn't describe myself as excessively 'health and safety' but I do use an air-fed mask when using isocyanates and most people don't have one of these. Single pack topcoats would be the way I would (and do) go. I am currently applying Jotun Pilot 2 in colour Red 49 to our decks - it dulls down to a reasonable level of slipperiness fairly fast but if I wanted it more non-slip from the start I would add a bit of dry fine sand sprinkled on the top. One way to get longer life out of areas which are subject to regular wear and traffic is to apply your primer and undercoat (or use a paint which does both), typically 3 coats, and then apply a first topcoat layer in a different colour to your main topcoat - something which will show up as a clear contrast. Then two coats of topcoat in your preferred colour. So long as the two topcoats are the same type, just different colours, you won't have any compatibility issues. When the lower topcoat starts to show through, it's time to touch in any scratches; if it starts to show in areas it's time to lightly rub down and put on two more coats of topcoat. So long as you never let it go through to the undercoat, you can go a very long time without having to do a full repaint. Alec

I do not have a gearbox and neither does the other person I know. His father was a marine engineer who worked on Ts and had a few parts left over which he is now disposing of. I bought some other things from him (J parts and some tools) and found a few T parts in the boxes. The only people who might be able to help with a gearbox or parts to fix your current gearbox would be Seaward Engineering. Either that or you will probably have to buy a whole secondhand engine to take the parts from which you want, like the one on Ebay. Alec

There was a pair of TASC8 engines on Ebay a couple of months ago. There is a single engine currently for sale which has been up for a while, so may be able to negotiate on price: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204111344305?hash=item2f85fbf2b1:g:eqsAAOSwHytjFf6d&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoCs9rke62hTKdNAmih14S85NHUYl5kLNWkODr62K2s6rQ18D7uEglVFhRVZVWNBi80JHDONpS1XpgICtYI5nophmUUeF%2BlaLrhVPSJKpnzMrPyDI64LiH5mRWi0DfIcqZDJf%2BIcPR8IKxtSaAmyXuc0%2FhlD%2BHannTHY2fOn7X90Y4tKx8jWIFgu0me1VXNeBgCsBvHu1XE77wj7yv4y3y3A%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR-b0oIL7YA I have a few T parts (not the ones you are looking for) and I know someone who has a few more parts, again not the ones you are looking for. They were popular barge engines along the Essex coast in the 1970s/80s. Alec

A bit more information which might help: http://norfolk.broads.org.uk/wiki2018/index.php?title=Creighton_Caravan_Co._(Nelson,_Lancashire) - states production from the mid-1960s to 1975 which puts a date range. Also: states In the shower/toilet there should be a plaque with a date number on. Alec

I think it will be two bits of information which matter. The first is the import date to show it was pre-Brexit which covers the duty and VAT questions (although duty will be zero against the tax codes - if needed I have these as they are international). The second is the build date to show it was before the RCD. This is more difficult, but if you can show that the company was no longer trading before the start of the RCD, or you can find paperwork (even an advertisement) which shows when Creighton boats were being built. 'Creighton' is too vague I'm afraid to find more about the company, but if anyone has some information about the company, maybe an advert from an old Waterways World which gives the company address? then that would be enough to find them. Alec

The information you have been given is wrong. Firstly, if it was already in France before Brexit then no VAT applies (it will be duty-exempt too - just choose the right customs code). Secondly, I can't comment on regulations in France, but if the boat is older than the Recreational Craft Directive (which this one definitely is) then it does not apply retrospectively. I think you may need to find a more knowledgeable person in France who can help guide you through the paperwork. I did this the other way, with a boat from the Netherlands. It was built in the 1930s and had no paperwork other than a bill of sale. I used an agent who was helpful, but there were points where I knew more than they did. Alec

It might help to not really think about the fact that the boat was made in England, but just to think of it as an old boat which has not been in the water in France and follow the process for that. Many EU countries do not have compulsory registration for small boats, so it would be the same process as, for example, bringing a boat from the Netherlands. If you can find the remains of a 5-digit (or maybe 6-digit) number somewhere on the outside of the cabin (maybe painted on, maybe an old sticker) then it is worth posting here as if that is the CRT/BW registration number it may be possible to find some details from that. Alec

You set me down a thought trail with that, CRT simply uses the same number as BW did and they don't expire, so if a boat went off BW waters and didn't come back for decades, onto what are now CRT waters, it keeps the same number. This happened with ours last autumn when it was licenced by CRT for the first time since 2007. There is a searchable record on CanalPlan but whilst ours shows up (which shows it works), Me and Thee doesn't so far as I can see. I tried searching on 'Thee' and got several boats but none with the right details. https://canalplan.org.uk/boats/boats.php Was there a previous name or @StephenA are there archived records somewhere which wouldn't show up on a search? Alec

Mole grips are hugely useful for removing snapped off things with just a little bit showing - anythig from woodscrews to bolts. Add a bit of heat and even the most recalcitrant bolt or stud, or rounded off nut, will generally give in without recourse to drilling it. Alec

You raise a good point. It is important to have a good collection of spare expletives available for almost every job on the boat. There are two main approaches you can adopt - one is the multipack of assorted expletives so that you can select the most appropriate one for the occasion; the other is the bargain bulk buy approach and use a single expletive repeatedly, pretty much as a monosyllabic utterance throughout the whole job, in the style of Four Weddings and a Funeral. Alec

Something I now carry on board is a roll of this: https://www.screwfix.com/p/bostik-flashband-grey-10m-x-100mm/57969 It won't stick to a wet surface, but it will stick to pretty much any dry surface and is instantly waterproof, and holds up indefinitely. Any leaking thing can be temporarily made to not leak any more with it. It needs white spirit to clean it off. On that point, white spirit, a roll of cleaning paper (not really sure what it's called) and some mid-sized bin-bags are very useful - far more convenient for dealing with clean-ups than bins and cloths. For spanners, check what your engine is based on - metric or UNF. Don't forget a set of allen keys, some string, some wire and a number of split pins in various sizes. Many things can be lashed up to keep you going to the next convenient point with the above. Having dropped both the disc clamps off the angle grinder in the canal last weekend, I can concur with the above statement re. a magnet. A quick fishing trip with a Seasearcher saw the job continuing within 5mins, having fished both out none the worse for their dunking. Alec

I found this one recently and rather like it: https://marinestore.co.uk/ Its products are more marine-focused than inland and definitely not bargain-basement, but they have some really top quality stuff at the best prices I could find for those particular items. Alec

What kind of things do you need? Some things are practical to buy online (assuming you have a delivery address) but others are either too big or you want to select on quality - wooden poles for example. Alec

Good luck!

The 66 model doesn't have a mesh, it has a coil, so you can sort of see down past it if you squint at the right angle. Also, because with this one you light it by taking the hotplate off, when it dies you can take the hotplate back off again and see straight down to the bottom. It makes sense that there shouldn't be liquid diesel present, but it needs to flow until it hits a 'hot front' somewhere in the pot and then vaporise. If it wouldn't flow in when not lit then there wouldn't be enough fuel coming through. It seems to stop flowing completely if there is the slightest trace of soot or coke in the burner pot - you pretty much have to keep it polished to keep it running, as though the float cut-out is too low relative to the burner pot. Alec

I don't know if it is or isn't supposed to have a layer of diesel present, only that it doesn't. You can tell it doesn't because you can see in through the window and also it doesn't slosh about. The 66 doesn't have a mesh, it has a coil. The coil assembly only sits on the protruding lugs one way up, so you pretty much couldn't get it backwards. It's quite possible there is something wrong with the coil or the mounting, but if so I can't see what as nothing is bent or broken. Alec

Thanks for that. Mine is a small Refleks so some details don't apply (no door, only a fixed window, and the burner pot is the stove base) but the principle makes sense. Flow rates are OK but if I light it on meths and then bleed in diesel as it gets going, there is never a lot of diesel in there. It just doesn't seem to flow into the burner pot and build up a layer in the bottom. Pretty much everything vaporises as soon as it reaches the pot, so any change in orientation such as rocking the boat means it temporarily flows more slowly and stutters as it runs out of fuel. If you turn it up it burns much hotter - the whole thing can glow red on the internal wall - but it won't ever build up a layer of diesel in the burner pot. Alec

I'm pretty sure that a longer chimney will overcome the instability issues. However, I think I also have a fuelling issue (apologies to the OP for the potential derail, but actually they may have the same basic problem). The fundamental problem is that I haven't ever seen it running properly. That means I don't know what 'normal' means in terms of fuelling. Take a simple one - assuming I set the stove up and turn it on but don't light it (I know this isn't the correct procedure for lighting, this is a diagnostic question) - what level should the fuel reach before it cuts out on the regulator float? Similarly, if the stove is running, what level of fuel should be visible in the base of the stove, and would that vary with setting or should it be largely constant as the increased flow is matched by the increased burn rate? Should it basically be a bit damp, or should there be a shallow pool across the whole stove base? I have a thought that maybe the regulator is at the wrong height relative to the stove base, perhaps because it has been knocked and the pipe bent at some point before my ownership, meaning it is never getting enough fuel in before cutting out (nothing to do with the regulator itself, just relative positions). If that was the case, it could never fuel properly so wouldn't run right whatever I did.

I get that, but if you don't know what you are doing and buy a lemon for £9k then the worst case is that you are £9k down and just return the loan. If you buy a lemon for £29k and end up needing £10-15k worth of replating then you haven't got the money and may find it really difficult to sell at all. You are likely to have lost a lot more than £9k and still have a loan to pay back. Also, looking on the positive side, at the end of it you may have a boat that has cost you more than you could sell it for, but how many of us haven't spent more than we would get back to have something the way we want it? Maybe it's buying that more expensive flooring or that particular stove because you prefer the look of it. We had the hatches changed on Oates from flip over to slide. Financial return on that will be nothing so it's pure cost, but it does mean that my wife and children can actually open them! These costs all add up and I reckon if the OP ends up spending £29k to have a boat worth £25k this way, or buys a sorted boat and spends £4k making changes to their personal taste, they still end up at the same position for the investment in personal choice rather than financial value, but each to their own - it's our own money in the end so our own choices. Alec

Probably, but not always. It would still be the budget end of the market, it would still be old enough to have potential issues and there are still no guarantees that the work has all been done correctly. If you know what you are doing, know the right people, which brokers to avoid etc. then you can assure yourself that everything is genuinely good. If you don't, it's a bit like the risk of buying an old banger which has been stuffed full of body filler and given a shiny paint job and an MOT by post. At least at £9k, you can assume it's bad and anything that isn't is a bonus, and you have a budget to fix it. If you spend £29k on a boat and get caught out then you haven't got anything left to fix it with, so you have to know it's right, and an inexperience buyer may not be able to tell the difference. I am not suggesting that all new buyers should buy wrecks, just that in some circumstances it may not be an entirely irrational move. Alec