Neil2

I figured the installation of a second (raw) water pump would be the key to , I just can't suss how to do it but I suppose Calcutts may have an idea. Yes, I guess by the time you factor in all the parts needed it might well be cheaper and easier to fit a hospital silencer. What about increased back pressure? I've always assumed hospital silencers must increase exhaust back pressure but I don't know what goes on inside that huge box - do they split the exhaust flow into parallel pipes so you get the silencing without increasing the pressure?

It's a BMC 1.8 engine with the usual standard tube out the side. Don't fancy a hospital silencer but I would like to soften the exhaust note, which a wet exhaust would do. I know there are those who have hung onto their wet systems when converted to skin tank cooling, but there's nothing left of the old wet system my boat had originally. Has anyone out there done this from scratch or would anyone like to suggest the most practical way of doing it?

I've seen quite a few of these, all seem to be outboard powered which would be the main drawback. That apart, a very versatile boat that will hold its own on rivers as well as canals. There was one for sale recently that had done the Ribble Link, so tidal stuff too. Very often have solid fuel stoves. Pram cover at the back so you can keep dry. Seem to be overpriced though when they do come up for sale and don't seem to undercut similar sized steel boats enough to make them desirable. There's a Highliner, which I think is the 28' version, near us which has been for sale around £12,000 for maybe 18 months, maybe longer.

OK I've never had a grp boat but I have been on many and I would walk away from anything that smelled or felt damp inside. Don't forget grp absorbs moisture, so say you have a boat of around 1970/80's vintage if it has been sat in the water most of it's life it will have soaked up a fair amount. I'm convinced this is why so many old grp cruisers and yachts smell and feel damp. Up market boats are likely to have been slipped for the winter and therefore get a chance to dry out. So if your initial impression is bad, don't bother with a survey. If she smells sweet inside then an external inspection is the next step but whether you go for a full survey depends on your budget and the price of the boat. Personally if I were buying a cheap grp boat, and I might be one day soon, I'd go with my instincts. If the hull seems ok your biggest worry is the state of the engine and transmission. I'd be more concerned about that

Surely white smoke is the indicator of injector problems? My BMC starts quite easily but puts out a lot of white smoke until you put her in gear when the smoke disappears. I put this down to more diesel being forced through the injectors when under load. I'm trying the additive route without much hope but I'll report back in due course. Can't help thinking might as well replace the injectors as have them serviced there can't be much difference in price. I think ASAP do them but can't get hold of AMC/Thorneycroft as they are on holiday at pres.

I'd never seen the name "Aedion" before, and admit I wasted a lot of time googling it before asking the owner who explained it is "no idea" backwards. Some of you will have spotted it straight away I'm sure which makes me feel even more like a wally.

To be honest it was only a conversation with a plumber friend that got me started on this. He was adamant that running hot water through a HW cylinder with no water in it could end in disaster, even splitting the tank. I checked this with another guy and he said the same. I'd still like to know if anyone has actually drained their calorifier and run the engine.

Just to clarify or maybe calorify.. (sorry) my plumbing associates tell me that if you removes the water from a calorifier tank and allow hot water to run throught the heat exchanger coil, the effect of heating up air instead of water could result in damage to the tank. You are like creating a hot air balloon and if there's nowhere for the air to expand, well, think of the consequences. But it seems like people don't bother draining their calorifiers? I have heard several accounts now of boat owners just leaving all the taps open and in all cases no damage has resulted. Maybe I'm being over cautious.

As the Leeds Liverpool is about to freeze over (sorry Dean!)... Seriously, something that's been on my mind for a while as I've not had a calorifier before is what to do about draining down. I tend to drain all water from the tanks pipes etc. but I will want to use the boat over the winter or at least run the engine from time to time. So, if I drain the calorifier tank what precautions are needed to avoid damage to the tank when the engine is run? There doesn't seem to be an isolater valve on my calorifier, well it would have to be a bypass valve anyway, so coolant will continue to flow through the heat exchanger which will heat the air, which will expand and... I'm thinking could I just take off the drain plug or disconnect one or both of the fresh water pipes to allow the hot air out, or would just leaving the taps open do? What do other folk do?

Heck, I know it gets a bit chilly up here but I'm not planning to winterise the boat before the end of October, in fact we were thinking of another cruise before the clocks go back. I reckon you would have plenty of time to get back before winter sets in. About two weeks to Leeds and it's all downhill and automatic locks from there isn't it?

OOOh I do love an argument about fenders... I'm sure we've left Starcoaster more confused than when she started. The fact is, despite what some say there are no absolute do's and don'ts. Most folk do what they do based on their own experiences. One fact though, very few hire boats carry fenders and I presume the reasoning is it is safer in locks. In fact there are some narrow locks you cannot get into with fenders down. BUT, the only time I have been hung up in a lock it was by a stud sticking out of the wall catching on the rubbing strake. A fender would have held the boat away from the wall, so I am now in two minds about the use of fenders in locks. The rope type are more up to the job but the flat plastic types will snap off if you do get one caught. Some of the front fenders I've seen are dangerous because they are hung so they won't slide up and over the stem if they get caught on a lock gate. (They are supposed to have a weak link in the securing chain but I bet most don't.) BTW I saw a Nauticus 27 on the Coventry canal with no less than 30 fenders hanging off it - is this a record? I've got a picture of it somewhere, looks like a balloon animal.

Surely Leeds Liverpool would be a better alternative (to the Trent) if you're already in Manchester? No locks on the Bridgewater raceway & no water problems this year either... We're getting a bit lonely up here ir would be nice to see another boat.

I wish people wouldn't make light of falling off the boat. Stick your hand down the weed hatch and see how cold that water is at the mo. I rescued a guy some years ago who had fallen in the river Bure. Reckons he was very close to being a gonner and did not see the funny side of it at all. As regards the OP, you have to bear in mind that boating has its ups and downs and not everyone you meet will be all smiles and waves especially if they have just broken a fan belt and don't have a spare... As for this boat snobbery the only example I have ever come across was a yachtsman who most definately viewed those in cheap grp cruisers as third class citizens but then yotties are a strange breed.. Snobbery is about people not boats, though I must admit I was pleasantly surprised by our first experience on the Thames this year. Almost without exception everyone waved or spoke (maybe they felt sorry for us) mind you even the lockies were cheerful so maybe it' was just the good weather.

Some great tips on this thread - like the one about writing the boat name on. I too have realised you don't need to waste money on the "special" paper, the best stuff is cheap 2-ply from asda. Not sure about economising on the blue stuff though. Remember someone else has to use the elsan point after you and they might not have such a strong stomach...

Boats registered on the Thames have to have a unique name of course, so you get Serendipity 1 to 23 etc etc. Intentional or not, I saw a cruiser called "Slipper 1".

You need to think about air draught as well though, (I mean height above water). I met a chap recently who had picked up a wooden ex thames cruiser very cheap, and it looked lovely too. Unfortunately he was heading west on the leeds liverpool and wasn't sure he could get through Foulridge tunnel which has a clearance of around 8'. I don't know if he made it but he was prepared to remove the roof section if necessary. I don't know what line of work he was in but he seemed quite confident of his ability to do it. Quite a few of the old broads cruisers are very appealing and represent terrific value for money but a lot of them are too high for practical canal cruising often because at some time a permanent wheelhouse/cabin has been fitted. I looked at one a couple of years ago that had originally had a canvas cover and I thought it wouldn't be much of a job to reinstate it but like the guy with the thames cruiser you have to be confident of you abilities if you take on a project boat. BTW have you looked at a Nauticus 27? They are narrow beam grp cruisers but a cut above the dawncraft/viking/norman types (in my opinion). Very versatile boats but seem to be unloved at the moment, possibly because they employ an "outdrive" between the engine and prop as opposed to the more common outboard or shaft drive systems . I've seen quite a few where I live which have really stuck on the market and I reckon you could find a decent example within your budget. Owners do seem to have an unrealistic idea of what these boats are worth at the moment. If others have offered this advice I apologise for repeating it but you really do need to get out and about and look at boats - looking on the internet gives a very distorted impression of the state of used boats. Also try and do your viewing on a wet day. The worse the weather the better. Don't make a decision based on seeing a boat in lovely sunny still weather. Apart from damping down your enthusiasm you will be surprised how many boats let rain water in.

I met a chap last week who told me he was down south on th GU & woke up in the night to find some guys unscrewing his mushroom vents. They had taken off the last one when said boater emerged, half naked. He tells me he keeps a machetti handy for such occasions. Well, believe me, the sight of this fella semi clad with a machetti would have scared the living you know what out of anyone. Apparently they were so scared they ran off full tilt into a security fence and he got his vents back. Generally though it's best not to worry and as someone said, just make sure you are insured. We spent some time with another guy who has been living aboard I think about 15 years now and he's never been touched despite travelling all over the network.

Has anyone seen the boat called "Wet Dreams" When you get close to it you see there is also a tiny "s" and "e" inserted in the "Wet" to make it "sWEeT" I don't know if it was a mistake, or the owners have a misplaced sense of humour. Anyway, gets my vote for the most awful boat name ever. And I've seen many, many awful names. For what it's worth, just don't try to be too clever or ironic, it doesn't work and makes you look like a prat. A simple girl's name is fine...

I may have missed something along the way here but as the owner is inexperienced I thought it might be worth mentioning. It's odd the boat "sprung a leak" after three months. Looking at the waterline she has been arse down in the water somewhat - could it simply have been a leaky stern gland and the owner has panicked? Maybe even a leak on a water pipe union? If any of us suddenly found water in our bilge how many would think leaky hull as the first suspect? The other possibility is simply rain water entering the engine bilge - almost routine on a boat like this, and the vintage of the boat implies there will be no sealed bulkhead so the surface water would penetrate the reat of the bilges. I remember hiring a 1970's boat once and being astonished at the amount of water trapped in the bilge, until they pointed out where the switch for the bilge pump was... She is said to need replating in several places - is this a result of seeing water peeing out of the hull or is it just from someone looking at the outside? Any boat from the 1970's might very well "need" replating, but does that mean the hull is thin enough to leak? Someone has already said it's unusual for boats to sink as a result of hull wear, the cause is often more complex than that. Anyway, doesn't look like a total basket case and £10,000 ain't a lot for a steel boat these days. What a gentleman - I can't promise fifty quid (I have my own problems) but I'll certainly give what I can. This is the BIg Society after all.

Our first boat was a springer and I would happily have another one provided there was evidence it had been looked after. There's a big advantage in these days of water shortages with a V hull, you can get into the side much more easily even when water levels are low. We really miss this now we have a flat bottom NB.

Oh dear - my heart goes out to your son, but anyone who has ever owner an old boat will tell you they can break your heart if you let them. The thing is, if you are into boats you see every pitfall as part of the experience. Some sound advice has been offered which I fully endorse. All is not lost. There are lots of good welders around who work for what you and I would call a pittance, it's the docking that might be the costly bit but as a fellow boater remarked only the other day, if you baulk at the cost of having a boat lifted out every year or so you shouldn't be a boat owner. Here's a bit of a case study I hope it helps. I recently had a miserable experience with a split in my skin (cooling) tank which I had to get sorted by a boatyard. Whilst I was there waiting my eye was drawn to a lovely looking NB alongside. The welder explained that the guy bought it for very little as an ex working boat that had been badly converted and it had a wooden cabin. He tore the inside out and the boat yard made up a new cabin in steel at a cost of about £4000 I think. He has to fit out the inside (which he is doing himself) but at the end of this exercise he will have what looks like a new boat for still only a four figure sum. It shows you what can be done with what other folk at first sight might call a pile of scrap. Steel boats, like railway locomotives, can be made to last almost indefinately, that's the advantage of steel. It was a good point about a NB not being like a car, a badly corroded car is a waste of time and money in most cases. rarely is that the case with a boat. I know another guy that had exactly the same experience as you son, he did have the boat surveyed but took it for granted the bottom plate would be sound. It wasn't. His philosophy was well the boat didn't cost the earth and now it has a new bottom plate which is a hell of a selling point if and when he comes to part with it. You'll get lots of good advice and encouragement on this forum, just try and get your son to see things in t more positive light.

Absolutely. I am sick and tired of the slowdown brigade - 4mph is slow, for god's sake. You always see slow down signs before boats that never go anywhere and are moored in the most casual fashion. Said it before, learn to tie up your boat properly and boats can pass you as quick as they like. Lady Muck is right - try telling some of the gin palaces on The Thames to slow down.

Us Yorkshiremen are very good at underselling, Martin. I think it goes without saying that any canal that passes through Yorkshire is worth doing. It's a pity the Lancashire side lets it down. Oh, by the way I'm talking about the real Yorkshire not the one the bureaucrats created in 1974 which means that most of the HNC is in God's county. Seriously, it does seem that things have improved over the years but I still reckon BW need to put more into the canal. It still isn't for the faint hearted and a bit of hand holding on the more challenging sections might encourage more boaters to take it on. Bear in mind it is only a few weeks ago that a boat sank in one of the locks on the western side. By all accounts they weren't inexperienced, just one of those there but for the grace of god situations. Yes, the pound above lock 37e is still a nightmare to negotiate. I reckon you need someone on the lock gates above to keep the water level right as you fill the lock. It's almost within sight of the the marsden end of the tunnel you would think BW could assist. It may be the cutbacks are the reason, but if so then how come we were assisted by BW through three automatic locks on the Aire & Calder recently...? Some consistency is called for.

I'm beginning to think the only answer to this is not to be there in the first place! Forget rivers, two of us tried to get into Clarence Dock in Leeds in a strong wind the other day. Once the wind had us broadside we were going nowhere except sideways. Got into the sanctuary of a pontoon and then had the equally challenging business of getting out. With a huge sigh of relief we made the exit only to be hailed by a guy filming for the local news. " We'd love to get some film of a boat - could you go back and come out again..."

We met an old stager down on the K&A earlier this year who had spent most of his working life on the thames, and oxford canal. He confirmed the practice was, up or down, to leave the boat in forward gear and let the bow ride up or down the gates. The problem is these days that many gates leak so badly you run the risk of flooding the bow, depending on boat design, and very often poor workmanship leaves hazards sticking out of the woodwork eg coach bolts fitted the wrong way round. I don't know how many hundred locks I've done but they still scare me, and I get more cautious every year. Only a couple of weeks ago a rubbing strake caught on a protruding stud going down one of the HNC locks. It's only because I tend to expect problems that we didn't come to grief on that occasion. What really bugs me is folk peering into the chamber and trying to have a conversation with you. In these days of heightened awareness of H&S it's amazing more attention isn't paid to locks. BTW I'm told Silsden boats now insist on hirers watching a 30 minute safety video. Don't know if it's true, but a few pictures of hung up boats would certainly get the message across.