Neil2

We also saw a Black Pearl on the Ashby canal during the summer. I think it was a Springer maybe and very distinctlive. I was looking forward to seeing whoever it was cruised/lived on it but we only saw the ship's dog.

I know that area, surely Bury St Edmunds or Cambridge have the facilities? Got to be cheaper taking it there than paying 35 squid for a collection.

We have a rain cover for use when boat is tied up, unfortunately one of the side dodgers blew away in the gales of a few weeks back, and I was astonished how much water had found its way into the bilge even though the cover was still in place. I wish I could afford a really good quality canopy. Instead I have a wet vac...

Just returned from a trip to our local recycling centre. The lads there said no problem with anti freeze provided it is in sealed containers - you can't just pour it into a tank like waste oil eg. It may be certain sites aren't geared up for all types of waste but a call to the local council should establish where you can take your anti freeze.

I'm amazed that the council won't dispose of it but it doesn't seem to be in the hazardous waste category according to my local recycling centre so maybe they don't have a responsibility. My sister in law's cat has just died as a result of (deliberate) poisoning with anti freeze so I wouldn't be tempted to tip it in the hedge. Back in the old days we always reused our car anti freeze, but for economic not environmental reasons. I don't suppose you can filter/reuse it?

No-one picked up my point about the RCD but as the discussion has moved on to the merits of refitting a secondhand boat I thought it was worth another mention. As I understand it if refitting an existing boat all you have to worry about is complying with the BSS whenever the cert is up for renewal. I guess a wise owner would have the boat inspected on completion, or at least consult an examiner at the design stage. If you start with a sailaway or a basic hull, there's what seems to me to be some fairly weighty requirements on making sure stuff complies and preparing instruction manuals which a professional builder would be quite familiar with but not the average amateur. The get out is you only have to worry about RCD if the vessel is sold within five years of "completion" whatever that means. Ok I guess most folk taking on such a project would have no immediate intention of selling, especially if it's for living aboard, but the OP admitted he's likely to get things wrong, and I wonder how many have fitted out a boat and then thought they could do a much better job next time. If you were buying a sailaway on the basis that its resale value would be higher then clearly the RCD is a factor. Admittedly I've no experience in these matters, it may be that complying with the RCD is no big deal but no-one has said so yet. Based on what little I've learned so far I think I would start with an existing boat.

PBO did some testing on them a few years ago but if I remember right, but not with the sort of stuff I get caught round the prop. I don't think any cutter will deal with a bath towel, builders bag etc. Spoke to someone the other day who had the remains of an old bike round theirs. I don't know how folk that don't have a weed hatch manage on the canals.

I don't really have the experience to add to this discussion but like lots of boaters who are reasonably handy I'd like to do my own fit out one day. I've met lots of people who have started with shells/sailaways, and others who have completely stripped out an existing boat and refitted it. I don't know how much of a hassle the RCD is when starting with a new boat, but am I right in thinking that if you refit a secondhand boat the RCD doesn't apply?

I heard that too, which is why I used Owatrol. You could mix this with bilge paint if you like. As far as I know there is no fire risk with Owatrol.

[quote name='carlt' timestamp='1321709426' post='782277' Are you calling me a girl? I think I might be paying you the compliment of being in touch with your feminine side...

...that don't work...!

Each to his own, but I don't think the Sea Otter takes a good photograph. She looks much better in the flesh, and the first time I saw one I thought how "right" that design looks. One passed our mooring a while back and I still think they are attractive but in the water, not on the page. I digress for a moment but car design (in my opinion) has suffered from the need to make them look good in 2D and has resulted in some of the ugliest pieces of engineering. Someone mentioned Frobishers, there is also Charnwood, Ormelite, Dartline(?) Morgan Giles, all used to produce CC cruisers. Somewhere along the line opinion veered heavily towards tiller steered boats and I still don't know why. As regards splitting the accommodation, one of the advantages of the design as I see it is that enclosing the helm position is much more straightforward so it follows that a CC cruiser will almost certainly have an enclosed cockpit. Here's another angle - my wife was quite taken with a couple of CC cruisers we saw last summer, along the lines of "why can't we have one of those..?" Is it a male/female thing?

I'm beginning to think this approach has a lot to recommend it. A dedicated air supply from outside to the engine and a vent each side of the engine bay with an extract fan to asist the flow across the engine room. Despite people telling me it doesn't matter that much, I get alarmed at how hot my engine space gets after a long slog up river eg.

-seen post 23 though?

This is all very interesting but I don't know if it explains why the centre cockpit narrowboat is such a rarity. As there are pros and cons to each design what is the killer factor that makes the overwhelming majority purchasers buy the tiller steered variant? The Sea Otter 32 is an interesting case study. I don't know how many were sold and to what extent this boat contributed to the original company's demise, but they don't offer the design as an option in their current range so it can't have been a successful venture. My guess is a lot of new narrowboats are purchased by people with little experience of boats so they tend to go for the conservative style that everyone else seems to have. Even if they decide at some future date that a centre cockpit boat might suit them better it's too late unless they can afford to start all over again. This process becomes a vicious circle as there are not enough secondhand CC boats entering the market. Unless someone else has a better explanation?

I think that is a good point. I remember hiring a forward steerer once and hated it - you needed wing mirrors. The only centre cockpit boats I have steered have been sea going boats with elevated helm positions and I imagine being relatively low down in a NB would cause problems visually. Interesting comments about the Sea Otter 32 - I love the style of those boats but they were marketed as a "river cruiser" I believe, so maybe not so good for canal use.

Better to cast it amongst the vegetation. Coal ash (not just wood ash) is great fertiliser. My grandad used to grow his tomatoes in it.

I think on this model it may be a tiller steering position. Arcrite used to do one with dual steering as well. I'm not hearing any real disadvantages yet... The steering issue is surely one of execution rather than principle, remote engine controls likewise.

In the old days the "grade" of coal was often determined by where it came from ie which mine/seam. Of course Yorkshire coal was the best... Coke was/is normally for furnaces and central heating boilers as it burns hot with little residue. household or more correctly bituminous coal is usually blended with anthracite to make the high efficiency and smokeless stuff.

I've never been on a narrowboat with a centre cockpit, but from a distance they seem to make a lot of sense. Being away from the engine, ease of handling solo, easier to construct a shelter from the weather, and being able to seperate living quarters are a few of the advantages I can see. But there must be some overwhelming disadvantages or we would see more of them - yes?

You mean the bridge where Coronation Street totally lost its credibility for ever. I mean, forgoing a life on the cut with Stephanie Beacham for Dierdre - just not remotely believable.

Eeeee, you have me on one of my favourite subjects now. Your "household" coal is, as you say, the stuff we were familiar with from bygone days, straight from the colliery. Depending on where it came from (don't get me started) it will have a relatively high percentage of moisture and sulphur compared to more modern fuels and you would find it probably doesn't burn so hot and leaves more ash than a "blended" coal which is what most households use these days. In the days when we produced our own coal and many people lived within sight of a mine and we didn't have smokeless zones, it made sense to just use the stuff that came out of the nearest pit. But now we import coal from all over the globe it is generally accepted that you buy more efficient and eco friendly coal from a merchant who will offer different blends to suit different circumstances. Though more expensive, in the long run it's cheaper owing to the increased efficiency. Though on a boat access is the problem which is why so many boaters end up with household coal. The best stuff I've ever seen is what my sister burns on her multifuel stove. Comes from germany in briquette form and it is incredibly efficient but not universally available. Also it has one of those foreign names that means nothing in english and doesn't stick in the memory which is why i can't remember it! But it demonstrates just how much the coal industry has developed in recent years. Now, just remind me why we closed down virtually all our mines?

If it's of any use Hainsworths at the top of Bingley 5 rise isn't too far from Leeds. We had our little springer done there a few years back and I think the cost of blacking and four anodes was about £450 including the lift out and return. They pull the boats out lengthwise and as far as I know it doesn't matter what shape the hull is (cost wise). You would need to give them a bit of notice but I think I got it done within ten days or so. The problem with many yards is that they have to wait until they have so many boats to spread the crane hire cost.

Ok it's a bit blurred but the boat was moving after all. Well I think it's unusual - there is water on the other side of those gates I promise you, but 100% watertight. When did you last see that? Guess where?

Kuranda seem to recommend Bolin, I have one and I'm constantly amazed that something so small and quiet can actually do the job. The current draw on these though is tiny, I think as little as 2 watt so I wonder if they could move high viscosity liquid. Having said that when I had a radiator leak not long ago the fluid that seeped out seemd to have a pretty high concentration of anti freeze.