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Other than the odd experiment in stainless I suspect all steel narrow boats are constructed in low-carbon 'mild' steel and always have been. Anyone know any different? This is the stuff that accounts for about 90% of world steel production and is used for it's balance of cost, ease of welding, elastic behaviour, fracture toughness and strength. It's a jack of all trades essentially and is readily available for a low technology application such as building a narrow boat which under normal circumstances won't even come close to testing the mechanical properties of the metal itself. Corrosion resistance properties of steel are a product of the chemical mix so given the base material hasn't changed - it's origin or even absolute 'quality' isn't really a factor - then there is no basis in fact that modern steel rusts more easily than older steel. Over time the manufacturing processes of steel have changed to eliminate impurities and the effects such as drawdown and chemical segregation associated with cooling large blocks of material from liquid to solid state. In terms of engineering performance modern steels are superior to those of 50 years ago. That's really of no great significance in boat building because narrow boats are built not engineered. There is no point talking about yield strength and thickness in terms of the strength of the hull if you haven't calculated loads and modelled the structural form and who has ever done that for their boat? The brokerage where I bought Vulpes were adamant that modern boats corrode more easily than older ones. I will take that at face value because they have seen lots of them in their line of work and I have seen very few. However I assert that it's not about the steel. There are a few folk on here who understand the metallurgy and supply chain of steel far better than I do, my own experience is in being accountable for performance of rail steels in a safety critical high performance environment. The advice these folk give in this and other threads should be heeded. Essentially worry about the preparation, welding and protection of the steel but the steel itself should not be a concern. JP

Vulpes was blacked and had a pre-sale hull survey done prior to being placed on brokerage. The survey was made available to me and I judged it to be a properly professional piece of work. Comments on here supported my view of the surveyor and I also had sight of a large volume of information regarding the provenance of the boat. I commissioned my own internal survey - again another professional piece of work by someone who has been recommended on here - and had the hull survey transferred into my name for a nominal sum upon completion. That's a hull on which the base material was 47 years old. I met my internal surveyor upon his arrival at the brokerage. We had a chat about the survey and a few points of interest relating to the boat and then I left him to get on with it. I wouldn't appreciate someone who isn't qualified to know about my work hovering over my shoulder while I am at work and therefore I wouldn't inflict that on someone else. JP

In the newspaper sections. There are lists of names with a reference to the articles. Most articles are court reports. JP

Certainly is interesting. You can search for your ancestors to find out what crimes they committed! I found an article relating to my great grandfather who got off with a warning for his misdemeanour and was apparently too busy working the boat to turn up in person to the hearing. JP

Pennine, Genuine question for the benefit of the OP and me. Aren't we saying the same thing at least in terms of the principle? I only have 12v in my boat and have a wall mounted cigarette lighter into which I plug a USB adapter and cable. Is there anything the OP could buy that doesn't convert to 5v? JP

I am assuming you have 12v two pin sockets? If so why not buy a two pin to USB adapter and plug a USB charger cable into that? I found one on eBay on this page;- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fast-Charge-12V-USB-Socket-for-T5-Transporter-Caravan-Motor-Home-/252246518962 Failing that there is also a 12v plug to female cigarette lighter cable that could be used to plug a car charger into on the same page. JP

Yes he did but with some difficulty. I watched him do it. JP

Same thing happens to me, disappears on initial posting but it works if I then edit the post. I think I shall make a special trip to the Black Country to buy a flag. JP

Yes it was. Although it's the obvious place for such a shot and I know the place well I didn't initially think of it being Hawkesbury as I didn't recognise the building in the background. Mind you I wasn't born until 20 years after the photo and the cottage may well have been knocked down before I ever went there. The photo on pg.74 of 'A Canal People' shows it clearly in the background. JP Edit to add it appears the cottage still stands to this day.

Nick you are too clever for your own good! However let's not get pedantic about the semantic of the technic(al) otherwise we will end up reconstituting the nb Beech thread and we don't want do that... I was only really picking up on taking Richard's use of 'always' literally when I suspect you knew he meant it in an exaggerated sense. Back to Shrewley. Jon

Well if we are going to be pedantic about descriptions the energy in the circulating water is real not stored; that's why it causes you a problem. The same water had stored (potential) energy when it was in the lock above. Opening the paddles turned it into real (kinetic) energy. Anyway back to Shrewley and my initial thoughts were that it is possibly a later addition. That's the normal case where railway tunnels have separate parallel bores. The other cause could be a geological consideration. Not convinced on the economics of being cheaper to drive two tunnels through the same hill even if one is shorter. Jon

Don't tell 'em Richard! I have to admit to being pretty scientific about calculating a route to score most points for the size of crew and length of boat. I had it worked out the same day as I got the scoring info and have options for running ahead or behind schedule. Have still managed to get in most of the main bits of the BCN I have yet to cover as well. Not competitive at all... ? Nice to see on the Heron map of the BCN that 'the back of the map' is still literally that. JP

Dave, How many hours do you cruise in a day? It seems you are prepared to do quite long days given what you want to cover. The Warwickshire Ring itself will take one week (approx 60 hours) and just the trip from Lapworth to Stratford and back will be about another 20 hours as it is heavily locked. Add in another couple of days on the Avon and a stop in Brum and there might not be time for the BCN as well. If you can do it I would endorse what David Mack says above. The 'normal' route for the Warwickshire Ring is via the North Stratford and King's Norton Junction to access the city centre. Once there you could see the BCN as far as time permits. As suggested a trip to the Black Country Living Museum is possible going out via one route (Old or New main lines) and back via the other. Possible routes as part of an elongated ring would see you in one longish day from the city centre via Pudding Green Jn, Ryders Green and Perry Barr locks to Star City (safe mooring) from where you could continue (with a bit of reversing?) toward Fazeley. Give it two days and that could be extended to go via Walsall and moor at Pelsall Common overnight then via the Rushall and Perry Barr locks to Star City. Ryders Green and Walsall are pretty industrial but Rushall and parts of Perry Barr are in the outer suburbs of Birmingham and in August will be green and pleasant. To go all the way via Wolverhampton and the whole of the Wyrley & Essington Canal won't take that much longer as you will go for nearly 30 miles without any locks. Even if there isn't time for any of that the route back to Fazeley and Atherstone will mean spending the best part of a day getting clear of Brum via the Farmer's Bridge and Aston flights. Jon

Excellent. Have a screenshot of the entry of interest to me. Thanks JP

And it would have been my first one too It was purely a joke around the frequent discussions on here with no other inference. JP

Thanks Pete. Useful reference point but unfortunately doesn't include the specific information on the boat of interest to me that is (was?) contained in the AM Models listings. Jon

I didn't say how many pounds and I am not getting into a discussion on the miles thanks!

That's fine for extant boats but the AM Models site has information of interest regarding extinct boats that I am not aware exists elsewhere online. JP

Great idea. Obviously on a £/mile basis. ? JP

While I wouldn't argue against the general consensus of the forum that Rugby Boats and ABNB are the higher end brokerages I would still counsel the OP that they should concentrate on finding the right boat for them and on making sure they do all they can to ensure that all goes well. To my mind that is largely done by engaging professionals, letting them do their job and taking heed of their advice. Any brokerage is still a professional seller and in my mind preferable to buying from a private seller on Apollo Duck. I did plenty of research on these pages as a guest but still found that the reality was more than a little different from what might have been reasonably expected. I ended up buying from a brokerage that gets very little mention on these pages - Ashwood Marina - but everything I experienced there was professional and balanced the requirements of seller and buyer very well. On the subject of haggling, before I made a successful purchase I was gazumped at a different brokerage on a boat on which I had an offer of 95% of purchase price accepted. The eventual purchaser appeared suddenly and offered the asking price because they wanted the boat. That was upsetting - not least because I had secured the finance and made sure I could meet my end of the deal the previous day - but it demonstrated to me that you should concentrate on what you think the boat is worth to you and not what offer you think you can get accepted. Regarding the boat I did buy I had viewed boats I was genuinely interested in of £5k less and of £5k and £10k more in terms of asking price and was able to make a judgment it was realistically priced. It was also apparent the owner was a very conscientious fellow. You will find good advice on here but you still need to do things that are right as far as you are concerned. JP

Junior, Sorry for jumping back to the previous discussion - I missed that there were two parts to this thread. To answer the above question I think it would be possible to have one full day at least in Birmingham but it would need some hard days because of the amount of locks. There would also be a couple of easier days of cruising. If you did start at Droitwich Marina then overnight stops could feasibly be Droitwich, Worcester (via Severn), Stoke Pound visitor moorings (opposite Queens Head pub at bottom of Tardebigge flight), Birmingham x2, Tardebigge, Hanbury Junction. Jon

The OP posed the question "could it be done in a year?" hence the attempt to answer that question. I would agree it wouldn't necessarily be the most advantageous way even if possible but everyone has their own preferences and constraints on how they do things. JP

My thinking was that because it would have to be done in a pre-determined pattern the winter stoppages would make it difficult to utilise the winter months. I am sure a feasible plan could be devised for April to October inclusive in broadly 8 hour days and with contingency for a day or two off each month for servicing the boat, the odd inevitable repair, minor stoppages and a bit of flexibility for tidal sections. The problem then comes that it would require all the rivers to be in navigable condition within a relatively small window when you would need to be navigating them. I think it would take a bit of luck for that to happen without pushing the plan backward into the winter stoppage season and getting stuck. JP

Saltway Narrowboat Hire is small hire company based at Droitwich Marina which is below the three locks at Hanbury Junction on the Droitwich Junction Canal. They are pretty new and have three boats for next season which I think is one more than last year so it seems they must be doing OK. The boats are different from the normal spec of hire boats and at least one of them has a multi-fuel stove. I had a little look when they exhibited at the St Richard's Festival in Droitwich last year. Of course all the big players are on the Worcs & Birmingham. In support of what others have said about Hanbury Junction to Birmingham I would allow a minimum of 12 hours but it has a lot to do with how much lock work you want to do in a day. If you leave Droitwich Marina and head for Brum there are 45 locks in the first six miles or so. You shouldn't have any problem doing the Droitwich ring and Brum in a weeks hire though. I did the ring and up to Stoke Wharf in a three night weekend hire with a similar sized inexperienced crew the autumn before last. We did decent length days but it was dark by half six and we made sure that lunchtimes involved a decent stop at a pub. JP