RubyTuesday

Actually Zinga has been around for over 40 years! Lifespan prediction is quite possible to test and calculate in a lab now. Yes some people still use bitumen but that doesn't make it the best option. By "Plain epoxy" I mean a single type epoxy coat rather than a set of composite layers such as Primer, Undercoat and topcoat or Zinga, Primer and topcoat. Zinga has been used extensively in some very serious civil and marine engineering products, it's superiority as a means of protecting steel cannot be denied. It is on par with hot dip galvanising but a practical option for boat owners and large projects. It is also ideal for canal boats because of the way it deals with scratches and how it protect the steel even when exposed. It comes down to personal choice as to what someone puts on their boat, but it is not personal choice that dictates which is actually the better option. Seeing how many boats have to be overplayed and repaired due to rust, Zinga is an easy choice if you want to care for your boat long term. There is nothing wrong structurally with steel down to 3mm on a boat hull. Look at Springer Boats for example. Why use 6mm steel in an area that is not liable to mechanical stress? There you can use 3mm steel plate and save money and metal.

I must point out that plain epoxy on to bare metal is not even slightly similar to the Zinga followed by PU or (after a primer) Epoxy finish.They lifespan can't even be compared. Epoxy is cheap by square meter comparison to Zinga. I believe epoxy to be 7/8 times cheaper at £15/L and 5sqM/L so £3/sqM for epoxy and £25/sqM for Zinga. With that coating of Zinga you are looking at over 80 years of steel protection. Anyway, best is to take the boat out of the water get it replaced by a good metalworker then when the new steel is in get it prepared and coated as best budget will allow. If you can do the entire boats external hull! Then think of the saving and hassle of future, blacking and over plating ect!

It's all down to how good the person welding is, theory goes a wed with 100% penetration should be as strong as the metal. The problem is that that sort of quality weld rarely happens. You can all make your own minds up as to why. 3mm steel is strong. And as a hatch it isn't doing anything at 20cm below water level. The thinner plate at the counter will be because it will help balance against the weight of the engine (a bit) as the heaviest object in the boat is in the area with least displacement. (Unless you have a nice environmentally friendly, quiet and light weight electric motor!) If you want steel to last, get it blasted and coated in Zinga and then the relevant modern paints and you won't have to do any major re-blacking or over plating in the future. The up front cost is higher but the protection will last longer than us.

I have emailed TracPipe and as far as they are concerned: "Dear Mr Roberts Thank you for your email with regards to using TracPipe. TracPipe can be used in accordance with PD 54823 Guidance for the design, commissioning and maintenance of LPG systems in small craft (which has now replaced BS 5482-3)."

Except MTB knows what he is talking about and you should listen to him. I won't always say that... List because it is copper and pipe doesn't make it the correct thing to use. Read the standards and understand first. The £90 you spend on buying the document they are referring to could save your life and the life of your family/friends. Alternatively find a competent profestional (not always easy). Just because it has been seen on other boats does not make it correct also with limited knowledge misinterpretation of what you see is also quite possible.

If only that were true! its unlikely (unless your pump has active electronics) that there would be a short so I would look at it mechanically. Even if it's connections were submerged in water, it would not be the water that would make the breaker trip... Rust however...

Would fill a lot of baths! It's something I really miss

All in all, employing the correctly qualified gas engineer is top of my list, even if I can do it myself. I believe that BSS should require an appropriately qualified gas engineers safety certificate and a proper record of the work as and when it is carried out. Don't get me started about BSS and electrical installation.... Some of the gas instal on ours looks dodgy as **** and I will get it all changed prior to our BSS anyway. I've never seen so many elbow joints and end to end pipe joiners for three appliances! It's disgraceful. If it were up to me we wouldn't have gas on our boat but at the moment it is a practical option as the requirement for a good, reliable and hassle free shower is a non negotiable point!

We have always had Worchester Bosch boilers in all the buildings I have had connections to (family home, home and office) never had any issues. Not sure of the current model in my office. Of course as a repair techy you will only hear of the bad reviews, not the good. I have the same thing with my previous work.

Well as far as power goes, ours is as reliable as any house if not a little more as we are not grid reliant. They are not anything special from an electrical point of view but very convenient.We have never once had an issue with any of our condensing boilers in homes over the years, so I don't see them as anything scary.

Worcester Bosch state discharge into open drains and gully's but what is written in the building regs from what I have seen so far says that these must be part of the foul water drainage or mixed sewer. Still I find nothing specific to boats, I think fitting with a PH neutraliser is a reasonable route, more importantly is its effect on our water filtration system for filtering canal water that we use for drinking, ect.

But it can if it goes through a Ph neutraliser. It can go into limestone soak-away's and supposedly they have to be changed once a year, but I bet that never actually happens in most residences. This is because of the concentrated nature of only it going into the ground without dilution, also we are talking about boilers with much much bigger condensate discharge than that for a narrowboat. As they can be fed into the same plumbing as guttering, where does that actually go? From Thames Water: "surface water sewer carries uncontaminated rainwater directly to a local river, stream or soakaway. " So they have a pretty flimsy argument against it going into a canal from a boat. Fitting a PH neutraliser would be sensible so we will do that, last thing we need is to encourage corrosion on a steel boat! Just my findings and thoughts.

So, I have had a good look and I don't seem to be able to find anything about condensate discharge. There are PH neutralisers for condensate drainage. Building regs allow it into soak-aways And into rain water drainage... I wonder where that goes...

As far as I am aware as long at the controller can cope with the maximum PV voltage, the charge controller can be matched to the charge current capability of your batteries. The controllers current rating is the limit for how much current can be moved from the PV side to the Battery side. Just like any mains charger. It may connected to a 16A mains socket but only draw 10A, it doesn't go bang... Because of P=IxV the voltage will be high if the array is of higher Wattage but you are only drawing low current. So the wiring of the solar array must keep the open circuit voltage within the maximum working voltage of the charge controllers input. Solar charging is another good reason for Lithium batteries as they are 40% more efficient at charging and have a much lower internal resistance so can charge far faster... And utilise more of the Suns energy... Just saying...

Yes, in theory the 1000W will charge your batteries twice as fast as a 500W system. Get the most you can for the space that you have available for them. Panasonic have just released some very nice 330W modules (N330) but they are a devil to get hold of thanks to the solar cartel we seem to have. They are 1000mm wide and 1600mm long which fits nicely length ways along a roof of a narrowboat.

No, it was a Taranis.

Infineon make an eval board to show their super low Rds mosfets http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/evaluation-boards/DEMO_BATT_SW_V3/productType.html?productType=5546d4624d6fc3d5014dfb19422468c4#ispnTab1 Looks out of stock though

Sorry I'm dyslexic. It says that min flow rate is 1.5 L/Min and max 25 L/Min for 25deg delta. We (all being well) will be able to sit at 3 bar system pressure. What is nice is it has programmable water tempriture, which it will maintain even with varying flow rate. I will look into the condensate issue, thanks for pointing that out.

It is quite a capable heater! But it is far more efficient and will run down at the 2.6KW level too. I would probably fit a 90 degree flu and have the exhaust from the side of the cabin. This would remove the need for the silly tall vertical flu on the outside of the boat. I don't see how it would effect the BSS, it's a modern product (hopefully installed to specification) it is also sealed so does not effect ventilation requirement. Right now, the flu is a real issue that the BSS inspector didn't spot (although there is an entire section on flu vents) the inspector that passed it should be struck off. I really like the effichency, not for saving money specifically but for getting the most out of the gas cylinders on extended trips.

Yes, Victoron kit is vastly over priced. Especially when you take into account their rediculess service attitude.

Shortly after buying our current boat that we live on it suddenly dawned on me that our on demand gas water heater vents into our pram cover, which is an instant fail for the BSS (I still don't understand how exactly it passed the last BSS as the boat had both the pram cover and the heater installed.... It sort of makes a mockery of the scheme). Currently we open up the flaps when we run the heater, so it isn't a problem in practice (apart from the condensation generated) but I am wanting to change it for a room sealed heater anyway and sort out the flu at the same time. I found the Rinnai K26i and it looks very good! It is expensive (cheapest I have found the LPG version is £960) but from what I can see is worth it in the long run. I was wondering if anyone has ever come across these specific heaters before? I like that you can set a specific output tempriture so when having a shower you don't have to faff with mixer valves. Thanks! Chris

I totally agree, the alterations to the Victron are not ubergeek level, though not for everyone... I bought a 24v 175A alternator with an Adverc controller, I thought that I might as well as it is quite cheep. I thought that I may be able to reprogram it or repurposed it. After opening it up it turns out it is a very basic analogue controller and not particularly useful. An alternator controller (something far more advanced than is present inside the alternator) is required if you want to maximise the usefull lifespan of batteries, keep them protected from odd user behaviour and habits regardless of lead acid or LiFePO4 chemistry, as monitoring and limiting of voltage and current is required for accurate battery charging, which modern alternators do not do. And the controllers out there are pretty basic and not worth the extra cash. I feel it is one product that is really missing for us all. If the equipment was built to a higher technology level, we could really reduce the number of people having battery issues. Dacian shows that these advanced products do not need to be expensive if you see the technology (wifi and Bluetooth connectivity, high resolution LCD screen, web based data analysis, ect ect) that he has fitted to a tiny unit for £186! I feel a project coming on...

From Dacian's website: "Lithium and in particular LiFePO4 is a better long therm investment than Lead Acid batteries. --LiFePO4 has 2000 to 8000 cycles (70% to 100% DOD) vs Lead Acid 250 to 1200 cycles (20% to 50% DOD). (This means you can get LiFePO4 with half the Lead Acid capacity since LiFePO4 can be discharged deeper and does not have to be fully charged as Lead Acid). --LiFePO4 has a charge / discharge efficiency of 95 to 98% vs Lead Acid just 50 to 75%. --LiFePO4 will cost about the same as Lead Acid with 2x capacity. (A half capacity LiFePO4 will perform the same or better do to ability to discharge deeper and stay discharged with no effect on life cycle and do to better charge / discharge efficiency) --LiFePO4 protected with Solar BMS can last 20 to 30 years where a typical Lead Acid will only last 4 to 6 years. --LiFePO4 can be 5 to 10x better value than Lead Acid over the life of the battery --The cost benefit are not the only benefits. - LiFePO4 can be installed indoors with no need for external venting since it does not produce flammable Hydrogen gas as Lead Acid. - LiFePO4 even at the same capacity as Lead Acid is much smaller and lighter (in some applications this can be important). - LiFePO4 is maintenance free (AGM also claims that but in solar applications you probably need an expensive (1 Liter/kWh) gasoline or diesel generator to recharge the battery if there are more than two consecutive cloudy days else the battery life will be drastically affected) Some Links in support to my claims: Here is a similar Solar BMS from Sony using LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery to store solar energy but designed for grid tied systems Link and a more detailed document here Link http://download.solarshop.net/english/uploads/FS-UK-Sony-Storage-system-data-sheet-10-08-2012.pdf http://www.sklep.asat.pl/pl/p/file/b82d9c09831c75890e5e8b74dc8829f7/Product-presentation_Sony-Energy-Storage-Station.pdf Bosch has a similar grid tied solar storage system see Link using Lithium Iron Phosphate with a 7000cycles and 25years life claim. For Batteries you can check the Winston specifications for their Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries Link. There are other manufacturers of Lithium Iron Phosphate personally I use GBS cells since they where available about 3 years ago locally and where the best option for me at that time. But Winston and others seems to have better specs. My battery has already two years of full time offgrid with daily deep discharge and there is no measurable degradation see my house power consumption graphs below for more details." If you just look at up front cost then yes lead acid is cheaper, but if you factor in useful life and useable capacity then lithium is far cheaper and less hassle. The biggest issue currently is alternator charging of lithium batteries. Lithium batteries have such a low internal resistance they will take every last amp that the alternator can give so without a constant current regulator your alternator won't last long and without over charge cut off, neither would your batteries. This is also worth a read: http://www.technomadia.com/2012/09/a-year-on-lithium-rv-batteries/

Lithium battery management systems do already exist, however due to the different applications that lithium batteries are used in, there is normally a high degree of customisation to the systems. There is a huge DIY EV world out there and they are all over lithium batteries. This chap Dacian (http://electrodacus.com) has made a very interesting box that works as a BMS but at the voltatages more commonly found in domestic power rather than EV applications. He talks about Lithium and how lead acid is outdated. Lithium batteries are far easier to charge, they only require one chance stage of constant current. The only difference is the precise under and over voltage control that is required to protect the cells. In fact it is so important that if the battery bank hits it's lower voltage it will disconnect it from the load. Every cell that makes up the bank is monitored for its individual voltage and the balanced while charging to make sure they are all even. This is why there is an additional connection to each cell. Going on the fact that the marine world needs electrical items that can't be messed with... Dacians box is not really that but for those with a fair grasp of electronics. However something may be on its way soon.... Wink wink... What Dacian also shows us is that this equipment does not need to be expencive at all. The biggest problem is always going to be boaters requirement to charge from alternators, which are unfriendly to batteries at the best of times. Ps. Lithium batteries (LiFePO4 are the types used in these applications, not the super high energy dencity RC plane and car types) are perfectly safe. Check out YouTube for videos http://youtu.be/p21iZVFHEZk http://youtu.be/EMARDvMz62A It's a shame that like hydrogen (because of the Hindenburg) or Switch mode power supplies in audio (because of early attempts) this technology now has a stigma and fear attached to it.

It may have to be a monthly or annual contract.We have a data sim and two mobile sims, gives us 64 gig of data per month in total and it's faster than any broadband line could be to our mooring. Plus, we can take it with us!