Alan de Enfield

White diesel (DERV) from garages will be cheaper than full duty paid Red diesel from a marina (its all about volumes) Red Agricultural diesel is charged at 5% duty and 5% VAT

Yes they will that is how I get mine filled.

It doesn't look like a bunded bowser, it looks like a 'ground tank' simply ratchet strapped onto a trailer (is it road legal ?) What size is it ? Unless you have an ADR licence to tow a fuelbowser you'll need to ensure its under 1000 litres. having a 2000 litre tank with 1000 litres in it doesn't count !

But did you look at the others linked ? £300 & £750 in the greater scheme of boating costs, that is 'just a few 100s' How much were you budgeting on for a tank ? Getting an 'approved' plastic tank (as used for central heating kerosene) will cost over £1000, and with delivery on top, then a few £100 more for a pump and dispensing hose and nozzle it's way more than a bowser. Best 1000L Bunded Heating Oil Tank | Quick Delivery (quicktanks.co.uk)

Whatever - it does at least remove the responsibility from the DIY builder, who is more likely to make that mistake without the surveyors oversight.

Thinking about it you do have a way around it : Buy a Bowser. These come complete with a pump and dispenser hose. They are already bunded Hook it to your car take it to the marina and get them to fill it, pay the marina 'split', take the bowser home, park it in your back garden and there you go. You can pick up a bowser for just a few £100's. I have one to use as its easier to take the bowser across the fields to the machine than it is to take 'hours' tracking back and forwards. 950 Litre Bunded Diesel Fuel Road Tow Bowser Contract Western Abbi | eBay DEISEL BOWSER BUNDED | eBay And this is the type I have, but I have a 950 litre one so it avoids any questions about legal towing of fuels, hazmat etc etc. Which I believe come into force at 1000 litres. Western Bunded Diesel Bowser, Fuel Bowser. 2,000L Bunded Tank With Hose. | eBay Edit to add - yes you need a special ADR licence to tow a diesel bowser above 1000 litres : Towable bowsers with a capacity of up to 1000 litres may be towed without an ADR licence, however they may require a towing licence dependent on when you passed your driving test. All fuel bowsers with a capacity of over 1000 litres do require an ADR licence, as well as having a width of no more than 2.55 metres and weighing no more than 3500kg.

Open up your post to see replies.

They don't, but at least it takes the legal responsibility from the owner / fitter outer and places it on the gas installer. How do we know that the hull builder used the materials they said they have used, how do we know they put sufficient strengthening ribs in place, ? How do we know that they used a certified engine and not just a similar one from the same 'family' ? It is never ending.

That is pretty much how it is, except : The RYA no longer are the UK controlling authority for compliance. The Raison d'etre of the RCD is to ensure a safe boat and that boats are built to the same standards the RCD lists 'essential requirements' that ust be met in construction - the owners manual summarises that those have been met, and as you suggest should inclube schematics for gas, water, and electic circuits. There are a RCD/RCR Approved surveyors who can be commissioned to oversee the build (much as Building Control) and this is probably a far cheaper way of ensuring compliance than having to pay £4000 (?) to get a PCA. The other benefit is that it is then the Surveyor who is signing as legally responsible for the boat build - not the DIYer - and they would be held criminally responsible if there was any (say) loss of life due to a fault in the build.

Sometimes it is important to actually read what has been written - he does not say he bought it from Bourne boats he says : I would add that the hull was constructed by Bourne Boats to a sailaway level. He originally said : Disgruntled I saw a sailaway ( engine ballast flooring windows etc in)-right length for us (57 ft) and design (semi trad). Where did he see it ? Was it advertised on Apollo Duck by the 1st owner as a 'project as I have no time to finish it' or was it for sale by Bourne boats as a 'cancelleed order, or ...............? Did it have a previous owner ? What date did he buy it ? What date was the boat built / 1st sold ? Was Gas and electrics installed by the hull manufacturer If it did have a 1st owner, what work had the 1st owner done ? All we actually know is :- That in 2016 he was looking to have a new boat built. It was supplied with an Annexe IIIA declaration. It was fitted out by 'domestic' trades-people. IF it meets it I agree. But without an installer signing it off as 'meeting the requirements' how would anyone know if it meets the requirements ?

There was no requirement for a HIN / CIN prior to the RCD in 1998. Although, many manufacturers did have one marked on the boat,

That is hardly fair - you have twice been asked for information about when and where and from whom you bought the boat and what exact age is the boat, and what paperwork did you get with the boat. Reason is that depending on your answers the issue may be irellevant. So far you have not answered. Your choice,

Is it ? The definition :- .........or alters the watercraft to such an extent that it may not meet the applicable essential safety and environmental requirements laid down in this Directive”. A boat is built without a gas system, it has its CoC 'as built' The owner then decides it'd be nice to be able to boil a kettle so does a DIY gas installation which is a bodge and totally non compliant with the RCD / RCR requirements. As it does not "meet the applicable essential safety and environmental requirements laid down in this Directive”. it requires a PCA (The question will always be "how will anyone know, and who cares anyway" but that is not what we are discussing.)

Or, after a broker or two have been fined for selling boats without an RCD .................................. Or, British buyers become as aware of the legal requirements as our continental cousins. As written, the law includes not only business sales (a legal person) but a private individual (a natural person) as well and prevents them from selling a boat without the correct paperwork. (But good luck trying to enforce that one). 3.4 Distributor’s obligations The distributor is any natural or legal person in the supply chain, other than the manufacturer or the importer, who makes the product available on the market......................

It was from Argos - I'd guess about 3 years old.

My 'Work top' £60 cheapo freezer runs quite happily on my 1800w 'modified sine wave' Sterling inverter.

Nope Tony is correct - the contents are identical with just a new cover on saying "UK RCR" The RCD is now far more restrictive than it was a few years ago and, as the RCR is identical, the RCR is far more restrictive than the RCD was a few years ago. The problem is that such little credence has been given to the RCD by the inland waterways boaters and businesses, the RCR, which is now being applied, is coming as a shock to the system.

Things that can affect the safety if not installed to the requirement are now covered (could be a toilet that pumps directly overboard with no divert valve, a change in gas installation, etc etc . The new Directive has also clarified the definition of Major Craft Conversion, which is now also included in the new Directive. Major Craft Conversion means ” … a conversion of a watercraft which changes the means of propulsion of the watercraft, involves a major engine modification, or alters the watercraft to such an extent that it may not meet the applicable essential safety and environmental requirements laid down in this Directive”. In that regard it is like the BSS - if a boat is not fitted with a gas cooker when it has its BSS survey, and it subsequently has a gas stove fitted the BSS certificate does not correctly represent the boat and could be cancelled / withdrawn until confirmation that the boat and the new installation complies with the BSS requirements. Yes it does : The "Declaration of Conformity" (that is on the list that a distributor must have) is the certificate saying that the boat is compliant. Part of the certificate of compliance for my 'Cat' In English "Written Statement of Compliance" (top left of picture) In French " Declaration Ecrite De Conformite" (Top centre of picture) 'Europe' has always fully enforced the RCD requirements. This is one of the pieces of paper that was 'missing' and meant that the boat could not be sold (the other was the VAT Paid certificate) which allowed me to offer such a 'ridiculous' price for the boat. My offer was accepted and I contacted the manufacturer and obtained a copy of the CoC. 1st step on getting the boat out of Europe . Then the battle with customs started - but you know the story.

But is slightly broader than that in that it it includes anything that can affect safety (eg new gas fitted) or stability. For new boats, I agree, but we are generally talking about boats from the 90's into the 2010's. which were built to the RCD We voted out of the EU in 2016, but also adopted the 'new regulations' in 2017 which is where much of these new requirements came from and went thru Parliament as "The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017" then amended by the "Product Safety and Metrology. (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019". Then a UK Government Guidance document was issued in January 2021 "Recreational Craft Regulations 2017 As they apply to craft being supplied in or into Great Britain from 1 January 2021" It is not only the boat that must be compliant, the problem comes when the 'list' of what a distributor (broker) MUST see / have is not available : . Before making a product available on the market, the distributor must verify that: • The product bears the CE marking as required in Article 17 • It is accompanied by the following documents: EU Declaration of Conformity, instructions and safety information, the owner’s manual in the appropriate language for the craft and the engines if installed • It meets the product identification and traceability requirements, the manufacturer’s identification or the importer’s identification if applicable So, if there is, for example', no certificate of compliance the broker cannot sell the boat.

If he is going to use a broker who requires RCD compliance then he may not have much choice. (The alternative is, of course, find a private buyer who isn't looking for, or knows nothing about, RCD compliance Any boat built to comply with the RCD.

I understand you confusion but getting C&RT to approve the use of an 'unknown' 5 core gas pipe will carry absolutely no weight with the RCD approved Surveyor - if it is not RCD compliant, it isn't approved for use whatever C&RT say. You (as the builder) or your Gas installer will have to submit the pipe and its techniacl specifications, along with test results that it meets the RCD requirements. It is an ongoing forum 'argument' but if you use the specifications / products referred to in the RCD ISO standards you get an automatic assumption of compliance - use anything else and the onus is on you you prove it meets the technical requirements. From the RCD guidance notes : Other ways to comply with the essential requirements. The application of harmonised standards is not the only means to demonstrate the conformity of a product. However, only harmonised standards, after publication of references in the Official Journal of the EU (OJEU), may provide an automatic presumption of conformity against essential requirements covered by such standards. With the exception of the Directive’s mandatory reference to some harmonised standards (see Point 3), the manufacturer can choose whether or not to apply and refer to harmonised standards. However, if the manufacturer chooses not to follow the harmonised standards, he has the obligation to demonstrate that his products are in conformity with essential requirements by the use of other means that provide for at least an equivalent level of safety or protection. These can be technical specifications such as national standards, European or international standards which are not harmonised, i.e. not published in the OJEU, rules of notified bodies or the manufacturer’s own specifications. In these cases the manufacturer does not benefit from the presumption of conformity, but has to demonstrate the conformity himself. This implies that he demonstrates, in the technical documentation of a relevant product, in a more detailed manner how the technical specifications he uses provide conformity with the essential requirements. Manufacturers are advised to stay informed about the developments in international standardisation. Even if the manufacturer has not used harmonised standards, a change in the relevant harmonised standard could mean a change in the state of the art that implies that his product may not be compliant.

I'm guessing that the concerns maybe that (say) the gas and electrics could have been installed by 'qualified' domestic installers, but not 'boat' qualified installers (very different installation requirements and practices). Are the stability calculations and test results available ? Was the sailaway 'new' and unsold, or an 'abandoned' project ? Did you buy it from the manufacturer, or the '1st owner' ? What paperwork did you get with the sailaway ? What age was the hull when you bought it ? There may be timing loopholes to be exploited.

There is a single word that has the definition "depending on another or others for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return" And there is another single word that has the definition "denoting a mutually beneficial relationship between different people or groups" I'm sure that they would be found to be pejorative by some.

I'm sure you are correct, and that the risk is virtually zero (unless you get a buyer who wants it to be legal) The requirement to ensure everything is compliant before selling relates to "any natural or legal person in the supply chain, other than the manufacturer or the importer" A natural person is the legal term for a 'living human being'. So, are you agreeing or disagreeing with my post ?

Some examples (Page 207) BWB have disposed of more than 160 km of waterway. Transfers to other authorities covering some 45 km include: (1) Monmouthshire & Brecon Canal; the Monmouthshire length and Crumlin Arm (17.5 km) to various District Councils for redevelopment. The Board retain rights to transport of water and sales but the Councils are responsible for water-channelling or piping as necessary. (2) Grand Western Canal: transferred intact (17.5 km) to Devon County Council for amenity, including light boating. (3) Cromford Canal; the upper section (8 km from Ambergate to Cromford) to Derbyshire County Council for amenity, including light boating. 15.5.8 Substantial sales totalling some 110 km have been made piecemeal on the following Remainder waterways:- Ashton Canel, Birmingham Canal Navigations, Chesterfield, Cromford, Lancaster, Manchester Bolton & Bury, Nottingham and St Helens Canals, Shropshire Union Canal (Newpart, Trench and Shrewsbury Branches}, Swansea Canal. No navigable lengths have been sold. There is quite a bit more.