Petrol Generator storage - BSS requirements.

[Martin Megson]

Hi,

hopefully one of the BSS examiners can give me a steer on this. Ive just bought a Honda EU10i generator and a petrol can. The BSS regs state that these must be stored outside the main cabin and where any fuel leak will discharge overboard and cannot enter the cabin. The obvious place is in the cratch which has scuppers and the access to the boat through the front door is a 2 inches above the floor of the cratch. The only problem here is that the generator is visible through the cratch window and although secured with a chain I'd rather it was out of sight.

 

Is it acceptable to store the generator in the LPG locker?

[blackrose]

Strictly speaking to the letter of the BSS I think the answer is no, because the only thing that's supposed to be in there are your gas bottles. However, since petrol fumes behave in a similar way to low pressure LPG, if you don't have a dedicated locker then the gas locker is probably the safest place for your generator and petrol can by far - much safer than the engine room which is definitely not a good idea. Obviously when you put the generator into your gas locker make sure it doesn't catch and damage any hoses or pipes.

 

I also don't like the idea of keeping a petrol generator in the cratch but not just from the security point of view. In certain conditions such as wind I don't think it would take too much for petrol fumes to rise 2 inches and get in through the bow doors - open doors, door vents.

 

Edit: Just take the generator out and lock it to a ring on the bank when it comes to your next safety inspection.

 

Also, where are you actually running the generator?

Edited January 19, 2014 by blackrose

[Martin Megson]

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't sure about it sharing the gas locker as it seems sensible on the one hand but am aware of the potential to damage the gas pipes. Fortunately my gas locker is under the bench in the cratch and has plenty of space to store the generator well away from the bottles and pipework. Obviously I would let it cool before storing it. The point you make about fuel vapour entering through the doors is well made and one i hadn't thought of.

 

I run the generator outside on the rear deck with the doors closed. I'm very conscious of the potential for CO to be drawn into the cabin. I will get a longer cable and chain so I can put the generator on the bank.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Meggers

[LankyStreak]

I recently made this comment on another thread but it may be worth repeating here. You can get conversion kits that allow your Honda EU10i to run on propane rather than petrol. That way you don't need to store any petrol on the boat, either in the generator's tank or in a separate can. I run my EU20i on propane and it starts and runs just as well as on petrol. Just Google for "Honda petrol LPG conversion", or look on Ebay where there are several conversion kits on offer, the cheapest I saw was £159.

[Captain Fizz]

But running on LPG will trash the warranty.

[LankyStreak]

Agreed, the LPG conversion will void the generator's warranty. Honda specifically excludes LPG conversion from the warranty. However these units are so reliable that the probability of a warranty claim is very low, and the benefits of LPG conversion are many, especially for a boater: it's safer, much cheaper to run on propane than petrol, lower emissions, runs non-stop for days on a 13kg cylinder compared with constant petrol refills, and it uses a fuel source that's already on the boat.

[thorne lass]

Whether the generator and petrol can can share the same locker as gas cylinders may be a moot point but the fact is that the petrol AND the generator must be stored in a locker of equivalent construction and venting and on that basis the gas locker is the safest bet for most boats if they have the space.

 

Given the fume risk I would suggest that the generator is never run when on board the vessel in ANY location unless it is a suitably permanently installed installation.

 

The suggestion of LPG power is potentially good. LPG is far cheaper and far more convenient than petrol. I am always amazed at the number of burger vans you see in laybys running on petrol when LPG would be far cheaper and of course available since they have it for cooking! The down side for a boat would be that you would have to lug a gas bottle off the boat and connect it up on the bank : not so convenient.

 

BSS is a snapshot in time but I believe the boat owner has some responsibility to maintain the boat is a BSS-worthy condition between BSS inspections. If there were to be a fire or explosion then any insurance assessor spotting a generator or petrol can within a boat would rightly be very suspicious!

[blackrose]

Agreed, the LPG conversion will void the generator's warranty. Honda specifically excludes LPG conversion from the warranty. However these units are so reliable that the probability of a warranty claim is very low, and the benefits of LPG conversion are many, especially for a boater: it's safer, much cheaper to run on propane than petrol, lower emissions, runs non-stop for days on a 13kg cylinder compared with constant petrol refills, and it uses a fuel source that's already on the boat.

 

The generators themselves are reliable, but running on LPG will raise cylinder head temperatures, reduce fuel lubrication and thus increase service intervals. Running on LPG may reduce the service life of the generator.

 

This information comes from personal communication with Honda UK technical dept.

Edited January 19, 2014 by blackrose

[LankyStreak]

 

The generators themselves are reliable, but running on LPG will raise cylinder head temperatures, reduce fuel lubrication and thus increase service intervals. Running on LPG may reduce the service life of the generator.

 

This information comes from personal communication with Honda UK technical dept.

 

I'm not qualified to argue against that blackrose, this may be so. But Honda made good quality generators and there are thousands of (non-Honda) conversions out there. If they didn't work or if they substantially reduced the service life on the generator I would have expected to hear of complaints about them on forums like this. My experience is limited but I can only say I'm delighted with my LPG-converted EU20i. I change the oil regularly, which is a very simple job, and it runs like a dream.

 

Whether the generator and petrol can can share the same locker as gas cylinders may be a moot point but the fact is that the petrol AND the generator must be stored in a locker of equivalent construction and venting and on that basis the gas locker is the safest bet for most boats if they have the space.

 

Given the fume risk I would suggest that the generator is never run when on board the vessel in ANY location unless it is a suitably permanently installed installation.

 

The suggestion of LPG power is potentially good. LPG is far cheaper and far more convenient than petrol. I am always amazed at the number of burger vans you see in laybys running on petrol when LPG would be far cheaper and of course available since they have it for cooking! The down side for a boat would be that you would have to lug a gas bottle off the boat and connect it up on the bank : not so convenient.

 

BSS is a snapshot in time but I believe the boat owner has some responsibility to maintain the boat is a BSS-worthy condition between BSS inspections. If there were to be a fire or explosion then any insurance assessor spotting a generator or petrol can within a boat would rightly be very suspicious!

 

I wouldn't want to keep lifting a gas bottle off the boat. My conversion came with 3 metres of flexible hose to connect the generator to the propane cylinder using a snap-lock connector and if that's not long enough I'm sure it would be simple and cheap to get a longer hose so that you can keep the cylinder strapped into the gas locker in full compliance with the BSS.

[blackrose]

 

I'm not qualified to argue against that blackrose, this may be so. But Honda made good quality generators and there are thousands of (non-Honda) conversions out there. If they didn't work or if they substantially reduced the service life on the generator I would have expected to hear of complaints about them on forums like this. My experience is limited but I can only say I'm delighted with my LPG-converted EU20i. I change the oil regularly, which is a very simple job, and it runs like a dream.

No, there's not much point arguing with what Honda say! Anyway, if it works for you then that's good. There are a couple of different conversion kits available and those I've spoken to who have conversions say it makes the generator much more difficult to start. Perhaps they have a different kit to you?

 

I wouldn't want to keep lifting a gas bottle off the boat. My conversion came with 3 metres of flexible hose to connect the generator to the propane cylinder using a snap-lock connector and if that's not long enough I'm sure it would be simple and cheap to get a longer hose so that you can keep the cylinder strapped into the gas locker in full compliance with the BSS.

I thought all flexible hoses had to be inside the locker? Is that just high-pressure flexible hoses? Once the LPG has gone through the regulator I guess it's ok to use a hose, but if I was doing that I think I'd want to use a steel braided LPG hose. Those snap lock connectors do leak and would worry me too.

Edited January 19, 2014 by blackrose

[LankyStreak]

I did a bit of research before I bought my conversion, and all the UK suppliers seem to use the same Garretson regulator. This has an override button on it to fill the hose and carburettor with gas, which I press for around 5 seconds before pulling the starter cord. Then it usually takes 2, or at most 4, pulls on the recoil starter to start the cold engine. Is that any different from running on petrol? Once started the generator instantly purrs happily, and responds quickly to changes in electrical load. Personally I haven't found any difference in running the generator on LPG rather than petrol.

[smileypete]

Some good info on LPG conversions at the Petepower website:

 

http://www.petepower.co.uk/LPG-gas-conversion.html

 

If there's space in the gas locker I'd put it in there, with some bracketry or chain to stop it sliding around.

 

If genny is run outside on or near the boat there's still a need for CO alarms as the fumes can get drawn indoors in unexpected ways. Best have 2 different makes of CO alarm, at least one with a LCD readout.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited January 19, 2014 by smileypete

[raymondh]

Hi,

Try contacting

https://www.edgetechnology.co.uk/index.php/lpg-generators.html

They are one of the countrys leading Honda genset dealers and specialise in LPG powered sets

Ask about warranty you may be surprised

Ray

PS to keep Honda warranty you have to have the set "serviced" every 12 months ? ours are 10 and 12 years old and never been near a dealer for service, regular oil change and a filter when required R.

[Martin Megson]

Thanks for the info on LPG conversion, useful but I'm not in a hurry to convert

.

Regarding the warranty I was surprised when the dealer, who is a Honda registered dealer, told me that you service it yourself and the warranty remains valid for 5 years. The only caveat is that you use Honda spark plugs an air filters which are under £10 for both. He suggested keeping the receipts for parts which will confirm both the date of service and that Honda parts were used.

[DHutch]

I did a bit of research before I bought my conversion, and all the UK suppliers seem to use the same Garretson regulator. This has an override button on it to fill the hose and carburettor with gas, which I press for around 5 seconds before pulling the starter cord. Then it usually takes 2, or at most 4, pulls on the recoil starter to start the cold engine. Is that any different from running on petrol?

Cant speak for the later EU models but out EX1000 starts first pull 98% of the time even after standing for months, switch on, choke on, pull start, choke to half, choke to off.

 

I have not read the BSS for a while but certainly I think it used to specifically say that you weren't allowed anything else in the gas locker other than bottles, secured to prevent damage to pipework and regulator. Then in the petrol section, that the best way to store it was in a locker 'of construction simular to that of a gas locker' or something like that.

 

It slightly surprises me that Honda don't do a gas model themselves but I presume the development costs, to get it to a warrantable state, don't add up for the volumes they would sell.

 

 

Daniel

[Daiboy]

I keep a full (gallon) plastic petrol container in the gas locker between gas bottles and secure it upright. I run my gennie on the bank or towpath to charge batteries/ use washing machine but run it until it runs out of petrol. I let it cool down then store it in the "back" cabin, which in my case is the area I use as an office but is INSIDE my narrowboat.

 

Is this ok for the BSS?

[Martin Megson]

I keep a full (gallon) plastic petrol container in the gas locker between gas bottles and secure it upright. I run my gennie on the bank or towpath to charge batteries/ use washing machine but run it until it runs out of petrol. I let it cool down then store it in the "back" cabin, which in my case is the area I use as an office but is INSIDE my narrowboat.

 

Is this ok for the BSS?

 

I think not going by section 5.4.2.

 

5.4.2

Are all outboard and portable combustion engines with integral petrol or LPG tanks stored to ensure that leaking fuel or escaping vapour will not enter the interior of the vessel?