240v/12v electrics ideas sought

[Odana]

Our new office boat is currently unpowered and will spend the forseeable future attached to a landline. However while everything is stripped out I want to futureproof the fitout in case we find an outboard or sell it on.

 

Electrics needed:

 

• 
   
  
• Small water pump (existing 12v)
  
• 240v sockets
  
• Lights.
  

 

There is one (dead) 12v battery at present - the wiring looks like it spent its life attached to a car battery charger while the boat was plugged in to the shoreline. Is there a better cost-effective way or is this the best way to run the pump?

 

To avoid fitting 240v and 12v lights, is there a viable, cost-effective way of combining. I have had 12v lights in the past that were made for houses, but with the transformer chopped off. Is there some way of fitting 'household' 12v lights with a transformer, so most of the time they can run direct off the mains, but if in future we wanted 12v the wiring could bypass the transformer to be directly 12v from the battery? Or is it best to fit 12v lights and fit a small converter? My electrical knowledge gets slightly hazy at this point, and my electrician step-son is currently away moving house so can't be interrogated.

 

Any practical cheap solutions most welcome. If I can find a way to get lights and pump functioning at minimal cost I am then happy to run 240v and 12v wiring in two sets of trunking to have it ready to avoid future messing around with fitout.

 

Many thanks for today's lesson.

[Paul C]

Try to get every electrical device 12V and have a 12V battery, and a battery charger which is connected to the 240V shoreline. This will convert 240V to 12V as well as charging the batteries (yes its a bit more complicated then that, but that's the jist of it)

 

You mention 240V sockets, what will you need to plug into these?

[Ex- Member]

Our new office boat is currently unpowered and will spend the forseeable future attached to a landline. However while everything is stripped out I want to futureproof the fitout in case we find an outboard or sell it on.

 

Electrics needed:

 

• Small water pump (existing 12v)
• 240v sockets
• Lights.

 

There is one (dead) 12v battery at present - the wiring looks like it spent its life attached to a car battery charger while the boat was plugged in to the shoreline. Is there a better cost-effective way or is this the best way to run the pump?

 

To avoid fitting 240v and 12v lights, is there a viable, cost-effective way of combining. I have had 12v lights in the past that were made for houses, but with the transformer chopped off. Is there some way of fitting 'household' 12v lights with a transformer, so most of the time they can run direct off the mains, but if in future we wanted 12v the wiring could bypass the transformer to be directly 12v from the battery? Or is it best to fit 12v lights and fit a small converter? My electrical knowledge gets slightly hazy at this point, and my electrician step-son is currently away moving house so can't be interrogated.

 

Any practical cheap solutions most welcome. If I can find a way to get lights and pump functioning at minimal cost I am then happy to run 240v and 12v wiring in two sets of trunking to have it ready to avoid future messing around with fitout.

 

Many thanks for today's lesson.

 

IMO all you would be doing is complicating things. Boat 12v systems are 12vDC IMO There's little point in wiring in 240v lighting with transformers when 12v LED bulbs are cheap and efficient and yo have a 12v system to supply them.

 

I would say most live aboard boats have a 12v and 240 volt system. Even if you're on shore line 12v can be a very good back up system combined with an inverter.

 

Get 2 or 3 decent batteries wired for leisure and charged from a proper charger, wire all your 12 volt requirements via the leisure bank. Fit 240v separately IMO of course.

[Odana]

IMO all you would be doing is complicating things. Boat 12v systems are 12vDC IMO There's little point in wiring in 240v lighting with transformers when 12v LED bulbs are cheap and efficient and yo have a 12v system to supply them.

 

I would say most live aboard boats have a 12v and 240 volt system. Even if you're on shore line 12v can be a very good back up system combined with an inverter.

 

Get 2 or 3 decent batteries wired for leisure and charged from a proper charger, wire all your 12 volt requirements via the leisure bank. Fit 240v separately IMO of course.

 

To clarify, this is the office butty - very unlikely to ever by used by us as a moving boat - and being done on as cheap a budget as we can manage. At the moment there is no 12v - the pump is the only thing we'll keep if it still works. The lighting that has come out is all 240v wall lights which were plugged into sockets - not that we want to keep em.

 

We'll reinstall the 240v sockets etc, don't want to invest in more than one battery if at all possible - we only need to light and provide occasional water to 14ft of cabin. I agree an ideal would be to have a 'proper' charger which would have to be charged from landline given there's no engine. What's the starting point for sourcing this? Any suggestions for something cheap and the right size??

[Ex- Member]

To clarify, this is the office butty - very unlikely to ever by used by us as a moving boat - and being done on as cheap a budget as we can manage. At the moment there is no 12v - the pump is the only thing we'll keep if it still works. The lighting that has come out is all 240v wall lights which were plugged into sockets - not that we want to keep em.

 

We'll reinstall the 240v sockets etc, don't want to invest in more than one battery if at all possible - we only need to light and provide occasional water to 14ft of cabin. I agree an ideal would be to have a 'proper' charger which would have to be charged from landline given there's no engine. What's the starting point for sourcing this? Any suggestions for something cheap and the right size??

 

I see what you mean. just for the sake of a 12v pump then possibly use a 240v pump, no batteries at all.

[jonathanA]

To clarify, this is the office butty - very unlikely to ever by used by us as a moving boat - and being done on as cheap a budget as we can manage. At the moment there is no 12v - the pump is the only thing we'll keep if it still works. The lighting that has come out is all 240v wall lights which were plugged into sockets - not that we want to keep em.

 

We'll reinstall the 240v sockets etc, don't want to invest in more than one battery if at all possible - we only need to light and provide occasional water to 14ft of cabin. I agree an ideal would be to have a 'proper' charger which would have to be charged from landline given there's no engine. What's the starting point for sourcing this? Any suggestions for something cheap and the right size??

 

ok i think tyou've asnwered part of the question yourself. There little point in messing about with 12/240 volts lights, for obvious reasons 12v bulbs are rarely interchangable with 240v ones. If you use 'downlighters' that take typical halogen bulbs then you could swap out the fittings later on fairly cheaply. if you think there is a chance that this office will ever need a BSS in the future you would be better wiring in flex rather than the usual domestic T&E. Or use conduit/trunking so its easy to change later on.

 

in terms of the 12v for your pump, I'd be tempted to simply buy a 12v power supply unit sufficient to run the pump - you need to know how many amps the pump takes when its switched on. If its less than about 5 Amp then you should be able to pick up a cheap power supply from maplin, ebay, or CPC.

 

if you wanted to be more sophisiticated then a simple leisure battery (85AH - small one would do) with a permanently connected intelligent multistage charger (wouldn't need to be a big one so 5-10A) off ebay (£30 maybe ?) would do. if you wanted ot be green you could use a solar panel to keep the battery topped up instead, assuming the pump isn't being run too often

[smileypete]

If the boat is on a shoreline 24/7 I'd just run the lights and pump off a 12V power supply or two, that is what I do, no need to worry about batts and stuff.

 

There's plenty of standard 12V or 13.8V supplies on Ebay for example:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190772639019

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200725157426

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251229904330

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181079536830

 

I'm sure electrical step son could help connect and enclose it safely.

 

That said, if there's a spare batt and charger lying around why not use that.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited March 4, 2013 by smileypete

[Dave_P]

I'm a bit confused by this. What is the pump for? Is it a fresh-water pump? A waste-water pump? or a bilge pump? or something else?

 

If it's either the first or second, why do you need it for an office butty?

If it's a bilge pump, you could do without this too. Get a manual (hand-operated) pump and/or a wet-vac running off 240v.

 

If you have a 240v supply going into a small boat which is just an office which isn't going to be moved then essentially all you need is a secure, dry box with electricity. Why complicate things with batteries, chargers etc? Install some 240v lights and sockets. Put a desk and chair in there. Plug in your computer and a convector heater and you're away.