Fixing Rudder and Rudder Post

[davidk65]

What methods are used in fitting rudder and rudder post to a steel n. b.?

What I am trying to establish is; my tiller arm ends in a welded metal cap, a bolt then passes through this and I assume secures the tiller arm to the rudder post. The question is; if I remove the bolt, taking off the capped tiller arm (to replace the packing in side) will the rudder drop thorough the hull and into the canal?

 

Regards

DavidK

[David Schweizer]

What methods are used in fitting rudder and rudder post to a steel n. b.?

What I am trying to establish is; my tiller arm ends in a welded metal cap, a bolt then passes through this and I assume secures the tiller arm to the rudder post. The question is; if I remove the bolt, taking off the capped tiller arm (to replace the packing in side) will the rudder drop thorough  the hull and into the canal?

 

Regards

DavidK

26089[/snapback]

Don't Panic - the rudder will stay exactly where it is. It is held in place by the collar at the top of the Rudder Post Tube, and at the bottom by a large bush welded to the Skeg. In reality removing a Rudder can be quite a difficult job requiring two people (and preffereably three to put it back) Try douing it on an ex Working boat - it takes two people to lift the thing.

 

Your biggest problem however may be getting the Swans Neck off the top of the rudder post. If you are lucky the Swans neck will be on a round threaded extension of the Rudder post, and held on merely by pressure from the threaded nut. If however you had a "clever" enginneer design your boat like mine it may be on a tapered shaft with a woodruff key to hold it in place. so far we have failed to be able to remove it by brute force alone. If it ever has to come off we may need a very strong puller and the application of quite a lot of heat.

Edited July 25, 2005 by David Schweizer

[Alan Saunders]

What methods are used in fitting rudder and rudder post to a steel n. b.?

26089[/snapback]

The bottom of the rudder post is usually located in a plain bearing at the end of the skeg. Have a look or feel through the weed hatch to confirm this. In any case you could secure the rudder with a rope underneath, or through the hole at the top if it has one.

 

Alan

[Liam]

Alan, if you're unsure, tie some rope through the hole in the rudder and tie it off on your stern dolly.

[David Schweizer]

Why is everone being so cautious? There is no way the rudder can drop off the boat into the canal just because you remove the Swan's neck, if there was nothing holding the bottom of the rudder it would flap about all over the place, every time you tried to move it to steer. Having removed several rudders in my time, believe me it takes a considerable amount of effort to get it out of the skeg bush, and just putting a rope through the hole in the top will not save it, the purpose of that hole is to balance the rudder when re-fitting it and to help manouver it back into the skeg bush. not to hold the weight.

 

For the record to remove a rudder first remove the Swan's Neck then bolt an eyed bracket onto the top of the rudder post and tie a stout rope through the eye. Tie a second rope through the hole in the top of the rudder. Place a strong person on the end of each rope and whilst both standing on the rear counter pull the rudder upwards until it is felt to come out of the skeg bush, then using the ropes, manouver the rudder past the skeg and allow it to gently fall to the bed of the canal DO NOT LET GO OF THE ROPES, Man three then either has to feel around for the rudder post rope under the counter or get into the water and find it, only when he has got a firm grip on this rope should man 2 let go of the rope. the rudder can then be dragged clear of the boat and hauled out of the canal. Replacing the rudder is a reversal of the above proceedure, but it is usually easier to drop the rope down the Rudder post tube and then attach it to the rudder, rather than try and feed the rope up through the tube. One final point, make sure that the section of canal where this is being performed is deep enough to allow the rudder post to clear the counter before the rudder lands on the canal bed.

[Alan Saunders]

Alan, if you're unsure, tie some rope through the hole in the rudder and tie it off on your stern dolly.

26097[/snapback]

Cheers Liam! I am not in the least unsure of how to unship/ship my rudder but I wanted to reassure DavidK (the original poster)! Anyway that's what I said, isn't it?

 

I was also trying to cover the possibility that there are other arrangements (e.g. some of the smaller Piper boats?). I once accidentally unshipped, and had to recover, the rudder from a wooden butty that I was towing backwards It was simply hung on two 'pintles'.

 

As usual DavidS has a more eloquent & complete description than mine.

 

Alan

[David Schweizer]

Cheers Liam!  I am not in the least unsure of how to unship/ship my rudder but I wanted to reassure DavidK (the original poster)!  Anyway that's what I said, isn't it?

 

I was also trying to cover the possibility that there are other arrangements (e.g. some of the smaller Piper boats?).  I once accidentally unshipped, and had to recover, the rudder from a wooden butty that I was towing backwards It was simply hung on two 'pintles'.

 

As usual DavidS has a more eloquent & complete description than mine.

 

Alan

26164[/snapback]

 

Ah yes well, a butty rudder is a comletely different matter, just held on by two hooks into rings. Still very heavy to lift off though, at least they float if you do drop them in.

[John Orentas]

There are variations, possibly the most common is Liverpool Boats, in this case the rudder post passes through a secondary tube which is welded into the rudder blade, two bolts pass through both tube and pillar fixing the units together. Removing the rudder is more of a dry dock job as many people also weld them together.

 

Stoke on Trent also used to differ from the norm, dispensing with the modern top bearing and using a plain, perhaps rather crude one of their own which must be greased regularly.

[davidk65]

Many thanks for all your comments and information on this topic.

This is a job I still have to tackle. But in the original question I should have continued as below.

I have short arms and little legs (no comments please) when approching bridge holes I like to look down along the side towards the bow. To do this means,because of my arms, I move the tiller and lose my track through the bridge. Can one buy or make a device that fits over the tiller handle with a swival and a short extension piece that would allow me to move my position without moving the tiller?

 

DavidK

[Amicus]

snip

Can one buy or make a device that fits over the tiller handle with a swival and a short extension piece that would allow me to move my position without moving the tiller?

 

DavidK

26745[/snapback]

such a device is used by dingy sailors, wether it would me man enough for a narrow boat I dunno.

[Paul Evans]

I have short arms and little legs (no comments please) when approaching bridge holes I like to look down along the side towards the bow.

26745[/snapback]

Practice putting the boat through bridge holes without looking along the side! With very few exceptions, if you line the centre of the boat up slightly off-centre on the bridge arch, it will go through without touching the sides. There are very few bridge-holes less than 9' wide and, by the time you get to one, you won't even notice. Knowing my luck of course, the next hole you go through will be just 7' 6"!

[DHutch]

such a device is used by dingy sailors, wether it would me man enough for a narrow boat I dunno.

As amicus says, thats exatly what all the dingy sailers do.

- Often nowadays the 'tiller extention' is held with a short lenght of rubber. But there are also a lot that are done with a pivot and a hinge - Which could be easly replicated in a size suitable for a narrowboat.

 

Paul is right, its quite possable to go tho bridges without looking down the side, but still, i do often look down the side of EA when going into a lock.

 

 

Daniel

[John Orentas]

Paul.

 

I would disagree with that, when I am teaching people to steer my boat I make them look down the left hand side of the boat only and miss the bank with a margin of 1.5 to 2 feet, first with the bow then the stern, (bridge holes can be quite narrow up here).

The instinctive thing, just going through off centre can come later with increased confidence.

[Paul Evans]

But, unless they start practising they'll never build their confidence. I agree that, to start with, steerers should be persuaded to look down one side only and avoid that jigging from side to side which inevitably leads to tiller movement and going off course. When they've got that right - and it doesn't take long - they can be persuaded to adopt the nonchalant style!