how many layers of blacking

[BORNJOYFUL]

i have asked this quesy=tion before but as a new poster i posed the question inside another thread.

 

so here is a new thread!

 

My partner spoke with another boatee last week who said he wished he had blacked his hull in 5 layers not 2 or 3.

i thought this sounded excessive but as we are about to black our hull, is there any merit in doing more coats than usual? thanks in advance tania

[John Orentas]

There is something to be said for the principle that you can never put too much paint on a hull, but extra thickness probably will not make the boat more resistant to scratching, I thing 2 or 3 coats every 3 years is as good as you can get.

 

On a more general point I believe people that have newly come into narrowboats agonise much more than they need about painting, most come from playing about with cars where bumps and scratches have much more significance, cars also rust from the inside which in spite of what you read on this forum from time to time is never a problem with narrowboats. A boat with a plating spec of 10 - 6 - 4 will out-live your grandchildren with just basic maintenance.

[Chris J W]

So, for the sake of arguement, how many litres to do three coats on a 60ft? (Oh, and how long does each coat take to dry?)

[John Orentas]

So, for the sake of arguement, how many litres to do three coats on a 60ft? (Oh, and how long does each coat take to dry?)

 

 

As a very rough guess I would say 20 litres but you may have 5 litres left for next time, it will dry sufficiently overnight to take another coat. Like most people I just buy the B & Q stuff.

[Chris J W]

As a very rough guess I would say 20 litres but you may have 5 litres left for next time, it will dry sufficiently overnight to take another coat. Like most people I just buy the B & Q stuff.

 

B&Q do black bitumen paint? !!

 

Was going to say I never knew that ... but just realised that I'd never really needed to know before!

[bottle]

So do Screwfix same company?? but may be cheaper

Edited June 16, 2007 by bottle

[Timleech]

B&Q do black bitumen paint? !!

 

Was going to say I never knew that ... but just realised that I'd never really needed to know before!

 

Our nearest B&Q warehouse seems to have stopped restocking.

The one they sold was a fairly 'watery' product, 3 or more coats might well be a good idea with that.

 

What I offer as a commercial service is 3 coats, the intermediate coat is of a highbuild or 'bodied' bitumen (Rytex).

That seems to work pretty well.

 

 

Tim

[Guest]

Our nearest B&Q warehouse seems to have stopped restocking.

The one they sold was a fairly 'watery' product, 3 or more coats might well be a good idea with that.

 

What I offer as a commercial service is 3 coats, the intermediate coat is of a highbuild or 'bodied' bitumen (Rytex).

That seems to work pretty well.

Tim

I have always used Rytex, my present boat takes about 12 litres for three coats. (57feet)

Edited June 16, 2007 by Guest

[Timleech]

I have always used Rytex, my present boat takes about 12 litres for three coats. (57feet)

 

 

You must brush it out pretty thinly, then

 

Tim

[Guest]

You must brush it out pretty thinly, then

 

Tim

Is that not a normal amount? My procedure is to go into the drydock armed with 3 X 5litre cans of Rytex. I stand it in a bucket of hot water (Rytex not the boat) and apply with lambs wool rollers which I chuck away after each coat. I always find that I have about half a tin left for touching up battle scars. I don't do the bottom plate though.

[Timleech]

Is that not a normal amount? My procedure is to go into the drydock armed with 3 X 5litre cans of Rytex. I stand it in a bucket of hot water (Rytex not the boat) and apply with lambs wool rollers which I chuck away after each coat. I always find that I have about half a tin left for touching up battle scars. I don't do the bottom plate though.

 

Warming does make a big difference to the viscosity, and to how much you use. We generally only do that in very cold weather.

Having said that, 3 coats of 'warmed' Rytex probably gives a pretty decent coating thickness.

We do first & last coats in Premium Protection, which is much thinner than Rytex, probably use about 4 to 4.5 x 5l total on a 57' boat.

 

Tim

[NBMike]

Is that not a normal amount? My procedure is to go into the drydock armed with 3 X 5litre cans of Rytex. I stand it in a bucket of hot water (Rytex not the boat) and apply with lambs wool rollers which I chuck away after each coat. I always find that I have about half a tin left for touching up battle scars. I don't do the bottom plate though.

 

Should I do the bottom plate on my newbuild, won't it just rub off on the bottom in short order anyway? My local boatyard say I should but they want to sell me more product

Mike

Edited June 16, 2007 by NBMike

[ChrisPy]

Should I do the bottom plate on my newbuild, won't it just rub off on the bottom in short order anyway? My local boatyard say I should but they want to sell me more product

earwigoagain .................

[Guest]

Is that not a normal amount? My procedure is to go into the drydock armed with 3 X 5litre cans of Rytex. I stand it in a bucket of hot water (Rytex not the boat) and apply with lambs wool rollers which I chuck away after each coat. I always find that I have about half a tin left for touching up battle scars. I don't do the bottom plate though.

 

Should I do the bottom plate on my newbuild, won't it just rub off on the bottom in short order anyway? My local boatyard say I should but they want to sell me more product

Mike

I vote don't bother doing the bottom plate, you can't do it all anyway.

 

Warming does make a big difference to the viscosity, and to how much you use. We generally only do that in very cold weather.

Having said that, 3 coats of 'warmed' Rytex probably gives a pretty decent coating thickness.

We do first & last coats in Premium Protection, which is much thinner than Rytex, probably use about 4 to 4.5 x 5l total on a 57' boat.

 

Tim

Is there an advantage in this method as opposed to 3 coats of Rytex?

[Timleech]

Is there an advantage in this method as opposed to 3 coats of Rytex?

 

Yes.

First, Premium Protection works better into any pitting than does Rytex, as it's thinner, there's less risk of it 'bridging'. That's why I use it for a first coat.

Second, PP is harder and shinier than Rytex, so cosmetically is better for the top coat and may actually be more durable. No, I haven't done any scientific testing on this.

Third, PP is quite a bit cheaper per litre than Rytex. Three 'full' coats of Rytex (not thinned by heating or by solvent) would be a fairly expensive business. AFAIK some of my local competitors use just a couple of coats of the cheapest bitumen they can get hold of, I think that my system (pat. pending )gives a *much* better result than that while keeping the cost within bounds.

 

Tim

[Guest]

Yes.

First, Premium Protection works better into any pitting than does Rytex, as it's thinner, there's less risk of it 'bridging'. That's why I use it for a first coat.

Second, PP is harder and shinier than Rytex, so cosmetically is better for the top coat and may actually be more durable. No, I haven't done any scientific testing on this.

Third, PP is quite a bit cheaper per litre than Rytex. Three 'full' coats of Rytex (not thinned by heating or by solvent) would be a fairly expensive business. AFAIK some of my local competitors use just a couple of coats of the cheapest bitumen they can get hold of, I think that my system (pat. pending )gives a *much* better result than that while keeping the cost within bounds.

 

Tim

Thanks, that is interesting. Is the "premium protection" a Rylard product, and will it be OK on top of previous Rylard Rytex? What is the recoat time?

[Timleech]

Thanks, that is interesting. Is the "premium protection" a Rylard product, and will it be OK on top of previous Rylard Rytex? What is the recoat time?

 

Yes PP is a Rylard product, though it's also sold under the 'Bitumastic' brand.

Yes, it's fine over Rytex, they are both Bitumen paints.

We usually allow 24 hours betwwen coats, a bit less sometimes in ideal summer drying weather, occasionally more if the conditions are bad.

With all these things, it's at least as important to have one coat dry before applying the next, as to have the final coat fully dry before going back in the water. Otherwise you can end up with solvent trapped in the lower layers, and have paint staying soft for weeks or even peeling off.

 

Tim

[Guest]

Yes PP is a Rylard product, though it's also sold under the 'Bitumastic' brand.

Yes, it's fine over Rytex, they are both Bitumen paints.

We usually allow 24 hours betwwen coats, a bit less sometimes in ideal summer drying weather, occasionally more if the conditions are bad.

With all these things, it's at least as important to have one coat dry before applying the next, as to have the final coat fully dry before going back in the water. Otherwise you can end up with solvent trapped in the lower layers, and have paint staying soft for weeks or even peeling off.

 

Tim

Thanks I will try that next time. rytex works well, but becomes almost grey with time.

[blackrose]

I used 4 coats of Premium Protection last time - the first two coats applied with brushes and the last two with rollers. I didn't know any of this stuff about lower viscosity than regular blacking, I just chose it because it's supposed to have a degree of resistance to diesel.

 

I would have been happy with 3 coats but after the first coat if someone comes along and talks to you, then when you look back at your work you can't tell where you stopped!

[Timleech]

I used 4 coats of Premium Protection last time - the first two coats applied with brushes and the last two with rollers. I didn't know any of this stuff about lower viscosity than regular blacking, I just chose it because it's supposed to have a degree of resistance to diesel.

 

I don't think anyone said it had a lower viscosity than ordinary blacking

It does have a lower viscosity, and less 'body' than Rytex, but that's not quite 'ordinary blacking' in my book.

I reckon 4 coats of PP should make a pretty good job.

 

Tim

[Chris J W]

I used 4 coats of Premium Protection last time - the first two coats applied with brushes and the last two with rollers. I didn't know any of this stuff about lower viscosity than regular blacking, I just chose it because it's supposed to have a degree of resistance to diesel.

 

I would have been happy with 3 coats but after the first coat if someone comes along and talks to you, then when you look back at your work you can't tell where you stopped!

 

Any particular reason for brushing the first two coats?

[NBMike]

Thanks for that Catweasel. Chris, Earwigoagain was about the least helpful reply I could have got. If its an old topic (I'm a new member) a direction to a previous thread would have been more helpful - or even No reply. No offence meant.

Mike

[blackrose]

Any particular reason for brushing the first two coats?

 

I was told that it would get the paint into any pits better than a roller.

[Machpoint005]

When I bought my first boat, an 'old hand' told me there was no need to black the baseplate because "You polish that as you go along". I think that's what the earwigoagain remark was about...

[Chris J W]

I was told that it would get the paint into any pits better than a roller.

 

Hmm. Can sort of see it. If you've got small areas then at least you know you've got them covered.

 

Ta!