How to fix timing on a BMC 1.8

[tommyleyland]

Hi all,

I have a BMC 1.8 that ran fine, then I had a leak from the fuel pump that meant I had to get it reconditioned.

 

Now at idle it runs really lumpy and produces white smoke.

 

It seems ok in gear and moving, maybe with the odd splutter.

 

I know removing and reinstalling the fuel pump can mess with the timing, I'm pretty dim with these engines can I only twist the pump one way or another and repeat as a trial and error method or is there something that would be easier?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Tony Brooks]

Not 100% sure on 1.8s but is there not a pointer held in place by two small screws on the block the pump buts up against that lines up with a line scribed on the corner of the pump?

[RLWP]

 

Not 100% sure on 1.8s but is there not a pointer held in place by two small screws on the block the pump buts up against that lines up with a line scribed on the corner of the pump?

 

 

Yes, there is

 

Richard

[Tony Brooks]

So, just shoe the pump in, the master spline will ensure the shaft it can only fit in one place, then line the pointer and scribed line up and tighten the mounting nuts. Then put all the pipes and control cables back.

 

If the timing is still out then the state of the timing chain and tensioner needs looking at. I think Tony D or Biz said the 1.8 had a habit of jumping teeth.

[tommyleyland]

It's lines up with the pointer but I've been told it won't matter if it's lined up to that after reconditioning a pump. I've also been told they used to sell tools for this exact problem but they aren't available any more.

[RLWP]

It's lines up with the pointer but I've been told it won't matter if it's lined up to that after reconditioning a pump. I've also been told they used to sell tools for this exact problem but they aren't available any more.

 

The pump will be rebuilt and timed on a machine to the mark on the pump, so you just align the pump mark with the engine mark and it will right - or should be

 

The tool is for setting the calibration mark on the engine, which you haven't changed

 

Richard

[tommyleyland]

The pump was sent off to be reconditioned and was fitted afterwards by a different mechanic so they didn't calibrate it to the engine.

[Tony Brooks]

Unless something has happened to the timing chain they do not have to.

 

The line scribed on the corner of the pump was put there (or should have been) by whoever overhauled it.

 

Unless one of your engineers was a complete moron (not unknown) the pointer on the engine was not altered.

 

It is simple:

 

Stick pump in hole and loosely secure.

Twist pump to align scribed line with pointer.

Tighten pump

 

JOB DONE - no other timing required unless there is a problem with the timing gear/chain/tensioner.

 

By all means listen to whoever gave you incorrect advice but please do not come on here and imply that the likes of Richard and myself do not know what we are talking about. Maybe you should buy the manual form Calcutt and you may believe that rather than those you chat to along the cut.

 

 

Edited to add:

 

PS If what you are really asking is how do you reset the pointer then as far as I can see the cheapest and easiest way is to employ somewhen who knows BMCs and has the gauge.

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Tony Brooks

[tommyleyland]

 

By all means listen to whoever gave you incorrect advice but please do not come on here and imply that the likes of Richard and myself do not know what we are talking about. Maybe you should buy the manual form Calcutt and you may believe that rather than those you chat to along the cut.

 

 

When did I imply I don't know what either of you are on about? I think you need to chill on the defensive.

 

I'm asking advice and am giving you all the detail I know so you can correct/advise me. No need to be like that.

 

 

Stick pump in hole and loosely secure.

Twist pump to align scribed line with pointer.

Tighten pump

 

JOB DONE - no other timing required unless there is a problem with the timing gear/chain/tensioner.

 

This is what I've done, I have no idea how to check the timing gear/chain/tensioner so I'll call someone out. I was just asking to try and save some money.

[Tony Brooks]

The pump was sent off to be reconditioned and was fitted afterwards by a different mechanic so they didn't calibrate it to the engine.

 

So having been told by Richard the line on the pump would be dealt with by whoever reconditioned it and exactly how such pumps are "timed" to BMC 1.8s by myself you came back with the above.

 

Even if he did not you had been given the information about exactly how to do it yourself. You were also told that problems with the timing gear would complicate the issues.

 

Calibration is a technical term used to describe the process by which the pump RECONDITIONERS ensure each of the four cylinders receive equal amounts of fuel so it has nothing to do with any mechanic who fits the pump to the engine. I accept that you probably meant time the pump to the engine.

 

You say you did not understand what Richard and myself were on about, if so why not ask for a fuller explanation?

 

If you re-read your post number four you made an assertion based on what appears to be poor information that Richard and myself were wrong about just lining up the marks. That seems to suggests that you would rather trust an unidentified source who had given you suspect information than the correct information you were given here. Just maybe before you make such suggestions you should do a little internet research to see exactly who is more the likely to give you the correct information.

 

If the timing had slipped I think that you would be suffering lots of smoke, a loss of power, rough running and poor/difficult starting. Not to mention potential damage to the valves etc. so I doubt there is a problem with the timing gear. You do not mention poor starting or loss of power. If I had to guess I would want to check the valve clearances (if any are massive it could indicate a timing problem) and then consider if inadequate precautions had been taken when the pump was off so dirt got in a pipe and is causing an injector to stick open. Try loosening each injector union in turn with the engine running and see if the smoke becomes less over a minute or two. The engine will misfire and run very badly and fuel will drip out of each loose union but if eh smoke does lessen it would suggest an injector problem. There are other possibilities as well.

[RLWP]

The pump was sent off to be reconditioned and was fitted afterwards by a different mechanic so they didn't calibrate it to the engine.

 

That isn't what I said. The pump is put onto a machine, the mark on the pump is set to a datum on the machine and the pump is calibrated. Then you put the pump back, align the marks and it should be correct

 

Richard

[tommyleyland]

 

So having been told by Richard the line on the pump would be dealt with by whoever reconditioned it and exactly how such pumps are "timed" to BMC 1.8s by myself you came back with the above.

 

Even if he did not you had been given the information about exactly how to do it yourself. You were also told that problems with the timing gear would complicate the issues.

 

Calibration is a technical term used to describe the process by which the pump RECONDITIONERS ensure each of the four cylinders receive equal amounts of fuel so it has nothing to do with any mechanic who fits the pump to the engine. I accept that you probably meant time the pump to the engine.

 

You say you did not understand what Richard and myself were on about, if so why not ask for a fuller explanation?

 

If you re-read your post number four you made an assertion based on what appears to be poor information that Richard and myself were wrong about just lining up the marks. That seems to suggests that you would rather trust an unidentified source who had given you suspect information than the correct information you were given here. Just maybe before you make such suggestions you should do a little internet research to see exactly who is more the likely to give you the correct information.

 

If the timing had slipped I think that you would be suffering lots of smoke, a loss of power, rough running and poor/difficult starting. Not to mention potential damage to the valves etc. so I doubt there is a problem with the timing gear. You do not mention poor starting or loss of power. If I had to guess I would want to check the valve clearances (if any are massive it could indicate a timing problem) and then consider if inadequate precautions had been taken when the pump was off so dirt got in a pipe and is causing an injector to stick open. Try loosening each injector union in turn with the engine running and see if the smoke becomes less over a minute or two. The engine will misfire and run very badly and fuel will drip out of each loose union but if eh smoke does lessen it would suggest an injector problem. There are other possibilities as well.

It's too hot to argue, I had no intention of saying you were incorrect, I must have mis read the comment. Yes I now get you mean they would set up the pump correctly and it should be lined up to the marker.

 

After ringing my local mechanic (who is well trusted and respected) he mentioned to at least try turning the pump to see if it helped. I turned it anti clockwise and it definitely got worse, put it to the marker and still lumpy and a fair amount of smoke and I turned it clockwise and the smoking stopped and sounded very sweet.

 

I tightened everything up and left it running and it's not spluttering or shaking anymore. GRANTED the engine has now warmed up but it still spluttered when I'm neutral at idle.

 

I'm going to wait for it to cool down and see if it has helped with a cold start.

 

Video to how it runs now: https://youtu.be/NcKVx7K3jes

[Tony Brooks]

I think that you have just done what many of the inland mechanics now do. If it still starts and runs OK with reasonable fuel consumption and no overheating then there has to be a question about the original setting of the pointer, the pump's overhaul, or your timing gear but if it was only leaking before overhaul the chances are that your timing gear is fine.

 

If it is still running well in six months time I would reset the pointer.

 

It may also have purge some difficult to bleed air from the system.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Tony Brooks

[RLWP]

After ringing my local mechanic (who is well trusted and respected) he mentioned to at least try turning the pump to see if it helped. I turned it anti clockwise and it definitely got worse, put it to the marker and still lumpy and a fair amount of smoke and I turned it clockwise and the smoking stopped and sounded very sweet.

 

That's what I would have done - including the trial and error bit first!

 

Good work

 

Richard

[tommyleyland]

Thanks for your help all. I will keep an eye on it and report here if it didn't work properly.

 

At least I know what to try next if it doesn't work