Flatting Craftmaster Paint With Mirlon Pads - Help?

[Richard10002]

I'm painting my roof rails with Craftmaster, Dark Red undercoat and Alpha Red top coat.

 

I've done 2 coats of undercoat, sanded with wet and dry prior to the next coat. Then 1 coat of Alpha Red, sanded with wet and dry, then the second coat of Alpha Red which actually bloomed overnight as I got it on a bit late in the day, but not to worry, as I can put another coat on.

 

Anyway, having watched John Barnard's videos, I bought a pack if Mirka Mirlon Pads, 10 X red 360 grit, and 10 X grey 1500 grit.

 

I've rubbed down one rail with a red 360 grit pad, and there was definitely a red dust created and the surface looked matted but, when I wiped off the dust with a spirit soaked rag, the surface looked glossy, and not really scratched/scuffed, which doesn't seem right?

 

Am I doing something wrong or should the surface be fine for the next, perhaps final, coat tomorrow late morning?

Edited August 12, 2015 by Richard10002

[David Schweizer]

Your first mistake was using wet and dry, assuming you used it wet. After drying off, the surface may have felt dry, but the primer will have harboured some moisture, which will affect the final coat. The best solution is to use dry Production Paper grade 320, or even grade 400, Do not be tempted to wipe down with water or white spirit, wipe off with dry cloth and then remove any further excess with tack cloths. the surface is then ready to accept a coat of paint.

 

Available here:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Indasa-Rhynalox-Plusline-Production-Paper-P400-grit-Sand-Paper-Sheets-Pack-10-/251672965653?hash=item3a98e0b215

Edited August 13, 2015 by David Schweizer

[Tonka]

Spirit rags was also a mistake. Should have used tac rags.

[Richard10002]

Your first mistake was using wet and dry, assuming you used it wet. After drying off, the surface may have felt dry, but the primer will have harboured some moisture, which will affect the final coat. The best solution is to use dry Production Paper grade 320, or even grade 400, Do not be tempted to wipe down with water or white spirit, wipe off with dry cloth and then remove any further excess with tack cloths. the surface is then ready to accept a coat of paint.

 

Available here:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Indasa-Rhynalox-Plusline-Production-Paper-P400-grit-Sand-Paper-Sheets-Pack-10-/251672965653?hash=item3a98e0b215

 

I didn't wet and dry the primer, which I only painted on the bare areas where I had removed the rust. I think I did the 1st coat of undercoat dry, and the second coat wet, then the first topcoat wet, then the second coat last night dry with a Mirlon pad. It's too late on the rails now to go back, but I'll probably do a better job in 5 years or so when it might need doing again, or touching up. I'll also do a better job on some parts of the sides and deck that I plan to paint. Very much a learning curve isnt it

 

Forgive my curiosity on the white spirit thing. Given that I add a tiny bit of white spirit to the undercoat and the topcoats so far, to help it flow, and given that this must evaporate along with other stuff in the paint, how does wiping down with white spirit to remove the dust cause a problem? Surely any remnants will evaporate, just like the spirit in the paint. I'll be wiping down with a tack cloth before the next coat... although there are lots of web sites where this is frowned upon.

 

With hindsight, the rail I rubbed down and wiped off last night looks fairly matt this morning so, once the dew has dried off, I'll tack wipe it and give it another coat.

 

Thanks for the pointers - all adds to the knowledge base!!

[David Schweizer]

 

I didn't wet and dry the primer, which I only painted on the bare areas where I had removed the rust. I think I did the 1st coat of undercoat dry, and the second coat wet, then the first topcoat wet, then the second coat last night dry with a Mirlon pad. It's too late on the rails now to go back, but I'll probably do a better job in 5 years or so when it might need doing again, or touching up. I'll also do a better job on some parts of the sides and deck that I plan to paint. Very much a learning curve isnt it

 

Forgive my curiosity on the white spirit thing. Given that I add a tiny bit of white spirit to the undercoat and the topcoats so far, to help it flow, and given that this must evaporate along with other stuff in the paint, how does wiping down with white spirit to remove the dust cause a problem? Surely any remnants will evaporate, just like the spirit in the paint. I'll be wiping down with a tack cloth before the next coat... although there are lots of web sites where this is frowned upon.

 

With hindsight, the rail I rubbed down and wiped off last night looks fairly matt this morning so, once the dew has dried off, I'll tack wipe it and give it another coat.

 

Thanks for the pointers - all adds to the knowledge base!!You wouldn't apply a second coat only minurtes after appli

 

I guess you would not apply a second coat as soon the first coat "felt" dry, but would leave it the minimum time stated on the tin. In much the same way wiping down a recently painted surface with spirit after flatting will soften the surface and needs time to fully dry out, and I mean hours if not the next day. I would be less concerned about wiping down with white spirit on an old painted surface, as this would be less likely to absorb the sprit it the same way.

 

I would be interested to learn which web sites frown upon tack cloths. Are any of them run by proffessional boat painters? The only ones i can find are American sites and refer to varnishing wooden boats. not painting steel boats.

Edited August 13, 2015 by David Schweizer

[David Schweizer]

I have just noticed that you say you painted later on in the day. My exprience suggests that reds can take longer to dry than other colours, and need to be applied early enough in the morning to be dry before the dawn dew, otherwise the suface will matt.

[Richard10002]

I've always waited at least a day to apply a next coat, whatever I am painting with. The white spirit wipe down was about 8pm last night, and I'll be painting in an hour or so. Hopefully, in both cases, things will have been dried out sufficiently. In some cases, I have had to leave several days between coats, due to work and weather etc..

 

I think the sites that frown upon tack cloths were American woodworking, but it was all to do with what the tack cloth leaves behind, versus what it removes - hard to see how leaving contaminants behind on painted steel can be much different to leaving them behind on painted or varnished wood - surely it's all to do with the paint, rather than the wood or the steel, once there are a couple of coats on. How does the paint or varnish know what is at the bottom of all the layers? Again, I am no expert, and logic doesn't always provide the right answer

 

Jon Barnard is quite happy to use tack cloths and, having seen the finish he gets in his videos, that's good enough for me!

 

I agree that I painted too late in the day so the paint bloomed.. but my understanding is that it doesn't matter too much, if you are sanding and applying another coat. Apparently, Alpha Red isn't as delicate as other reds, according to some of the stuff on the Craftmaster site.

[David Schweizer]

I've always waited at least a day to apply a next coat, whatever I am painting with. The white spirit wipe down was about 8pm last night, and I'll be painting in an hour or so. Hopefully, in both cases, things will have been dried out sufficiently. In some cases, I have had to leave several days between coats, due to work and weather etc..

 

I think the sites that frown upon tack cloths were American woodworking, but it was all to do with what the tack cloth leaves behind, versus what it removes - hard to see how leaving contaminants behind on painted steel can be much different to leaving them behind on painted or varnished wood - surely it's all to do with the paint, rather than the wood or the steel, once there are a couple of coats on. How does the paint or varnish know what is at the bottom of all the layers? Again, I am no expert, and logic doesn't always provide the right answer

 

Jon Barnard is quite happy to use tack cloths and, having seen the finish he gets in his videos, that's good enough for me!

 

I agree that I painted too late in the day so the paint bloomed.. but my understanding is that it doesn't matter too much, if you are sanding and applying another coat. Apparently, Alpha Red isn't as delicate as other reds, according to some of the stuff on the Craftmaster site.

 

It doen't, It is what is on the surface. You are using modern coach enamels which are based upon synthetic resins, wheras the wooden boat people are using traditional Yacht Varnish, which is based upon natural resins.

 

Of course, it is also possible that Tack cloths in the US contain different substances to those used in the UK.

[Tonka]

John Barnard only uses one colour of undercoat. I do not understand why the manufacturers make different colours if John is correct

[Richard10002]

John Barnard only uses one colour of undercoat. I do not understand why the manufacturers make different colours if John is correct

He says many times in his videos that there is no one correct way to do things - his way is merely that. I guess it has something to do with the number of topcoats he puts on... definitely 3, and maybe 4, so any undercoat will be well and truly covered by then.

 

I mostly give up after 2 coats of top coat, so it's good that there is a similar colour underneath

[Richard10002]

Tack clothed and glossed yesterday, and looks quite amazing, even in the rain Craftmaster Alpha Red is a lovely colour, with quite a bit of depth, (whatever that means )

 

Obviously, I'll only know how well I've done the whole job as time goes by.