GOOLE:: Is this right? Possibly Dangerous new locking in and out edict

[CygnusV]

I've been told today that (as leisure boaters I believe) locking in and out at Goole will be disallowed between 3 hours before and 3 hours after high water. If this is true it will cause chaos. Is someone from ABP going to stick their head up and explain why boaters are being put into possible danger in this way.

 

Equally, I may have been misinformed. ( I certainly hope so)

 

Need answers

 

 

[larkshall]

Yes do a search, it's been logged on here, by Naughty Cal

[Guest]

I've been told today that (as leisure boaters I believe) locking in and out at Goole will be disallowed between 3 hours before and 3 hours after high water. If this is true it will cause chaos. Is someone from ABP going to stick their head up and explain why boaters are being put into possible danger in this way.

 

Equally, I may have been misinformed. ( I certainly hope so)

 

Need answers

 

 

Does anybody from ABP participate in the forum?

 

If not it might be best to contact them direct for the answer you seek.

[CygnusV]

Yes do a search, it's been logged on here, by Naughty Cal

Thanks Larshall, I did search, but as many '3' users know right now, the internet on board is iffy, at best, at present.

 

We're doing the Ouse for the first time, Naburn to Ocean Lock back end of July or early August and wanted to arrive at Ocean lock at the best time to be there. Just looking for advice.

[larkshall]

Check your tides, and the weather, vale of York has its own microclimate. The train bridge at Selby I find I have waited at for a while if tide is high. They really don't like opening that one. There are major roadworks around Selby, causing some HGVs to break the rules, this really has caused grief at Cawood bridge.

 

Naburn lock watch the Cill there it's higher than you think. Happy travels

[Tony Dunkley]

I've been told today that (as leisure boaters I believe) locking in and out at Goole will be disallowed between 3 hours before and 3 hours after high water. If this is true it will cause chaos. Is someone from ABP going to stick their head up and explain why boaters are being put into possible danger in this way.

 

Equally, I may have been misinformed. ( I certainly hope so)

 

Need answers

 

 

The info you've been given has become garbled . . . . . . ABP are now restricting the passage of pleasure boats to 3 hours either side of Goole HW, and not as stated in your OP . . . . but you wouldn't want to be penning outside the Free Tide Time (2.5 hours before and 1.5 hours after predicted Goole HW) anyway because of the £31 charge ( £51.15 at weekends)

 

Have you obtained any advice on timing your arrival at Goole on the return journey to be within Free Tide Time ? You are unlikely to get anything from Selby or Naburn because C&RT management have instructed their staff to minimize and limit advice in order to avoid possible liability in the event of any misshaps to pleasure boaters.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[howardang]

I've been told today that (as leisure boaters I believe) locking in and out at Goole will be disallowed between 3 hours before and 3 hours after high water. If this is true it will cause chaos. Is someone from ABP going to stick their head up and explain why boaters are being put into possible danger in this way.

 

Equally, I may have been misinformed. ( I certainly hope so)

 

Need answers

 

 

The obvious source of information is the Goole Assistant Dockmaster. The telephone number is 01405 721128.Why not call them?

 

Howard

[Naughty Cal]

Leisure craft are now only allowed three hours either side of high water!

 

The notice to mariners is in the stoppages section.

[CygnusV]

Leisure craft are now only allowed three hours either side of high water!

 

The notice to mariners is in the stoppages section.

Hi Naughty Cal

 

I actually did a search to see if this had been previously mentioned, but was obviously looking for the wrong keyword. I only found out about this problem yesterday and was very concerned because of our plans for an extended cruise next month. These plans include returning to base via Ocean lock. As total newbies to the Ouse it is a concern for us.

[Naughty Cal]

Hi Naughty Cal

 

I actually did a search to see if this had been previously mentioned, but was obviously looking for the wrong keyword. I only found out about this problem yesterday and was very concerned because of our plans for an extended cruise next month. These plans include returning to base via Ocean lock. As total newbies to the Ouse it is a concern for us.

I wouldn't worry about it. You can always anchor up somewhere safe if you are outside the hours.

 

Free locking is still 2.5 hours before to 1.5 hours after high water.Outside those hours there is a charge.

[Tony Dunkley]

I wouldn't worry about it. You can always anchor up somewhere safe if you are outside the hours.

 

 

 

That's a bit of really lousy advice . . . . . vague and unspecific, as well as being very misleading.

Just exactly where, after coming downriver from Naburn bound for Goole, would you anchor for the last few hours of ebb, and at what time in relation to the next tide, flood at Goole, would you suggest getting underway . . . . . could you also enlighten everyone as to what other considerations, apart from predicted tide times, should be taken into account on the day.

[Naughty Cal]

 

That's a bit of really lousy advice . . . . . vague and unspecific, as well as being very misleading.

Just exactly where, after coming downriver from Naburn bound for Goole, would you anchor for the last few hours of ebb, and at what time in relation to the next tide, flood at Goole, would you suggest getting underway . . . . . could you also enlighten everyone as to what other considerations, apart from predicted tide times, should be taken into account on the day.

I would anchor in the mouth of the Aire. Nice spot for a spot of lunch.

 

Our timings will be of little use to anyone else as we wait for high water and plane on top of the tide.

 

Failing that there is also the option of taking the ebb to Trent End and anchoring there, then taking the next flood tide back up to Goole.

 

Again our timings wont be relevant to a displacement vessel but we let the tide run in for 20 minutes and then plane up the Ouse to Goole.

[peterboat]

I would anchor in the mouth of the Aire. Nice spot for a spot of lunch.

 

Our timings will be of little use to anyone else as we wait for high water and plane on top of the tide.

 

Failing that there is also the option of taking the ebb to Trent End and anchoring there, then taking the next flood tide back up to Goole.

 

Again our timings wont be relevant to a displacement vessel but we let the tide run in for 20 minutes and then plane up the Ouse to Goole.

Quick question if a n/b w/b was to leave ocean lock to go to York how far would you think it would get before it was pushing the returning tide

 

Peter

[Naughty Cal]

Quick question if a n/b w/b was to leave ocean lock to go to York how far would you think it would get before it was pushing the returning tide

 

Peter

We have never hit it, but we can travel a bit quicker then a narrowboat. We tend to cruise up there at about 6 knots from Goole (we plane up to Goole) then a bit extra from the tide and we get a nice push all the way upstream from Trent End to Naburn.

[Joe Bourke]

For slowish boats using Ocean Lock at Goole, I would suggest going out at 2 1/2 hours before high tide Goole. Keep a steady pace and with the flood tide you should reach Naburn quite easily before the ebb. Watch the weather though, the tidal River Ouse can be treacherous in bad weather, especially wind over tide, for narrowboats etc.

[Naughty Cal]

For slowish boats using Ocean Lock at Goole, I would suggest going out at 2 1/2 hours before high tide Goole. Keep a steady pace and with the flood tide you should reach Naburn quite easily before the ebb. Watch the weather though, the tidal River Ouse can be treacherous in bad weather, especially wind over tide, for narrowboats etc.

Not just for narrowboats!

 

[Joe Bourke]

We had conditions similar to that on Monday, in the Howdendyke area especially. However beyond Selby things usually get better.

[peterboat]

For slowish boats using Ocean Lock at Goole, I would suggest going out at 2 1/2 hours before high tide Goole. Keep a steady pace and with the flood tide you should reach Naburn quite easily before the ebb. Watch the weather though, the tidal River Ouse can be treacherous in bad weather, especially wind over tide, for narrowboats etc.

Cheers Joe will try it next year and have a break at Selby either on way up or back depending on how we feel

 

Peter

[Joe Bourke]

Naburn to Goole is more complicated.

[peterboat]

Naburn to Goole is more complicated.

So maybe break the journey on the way back down methinks

 

Peter

[Tony Dunkley]

I would anchor in the mouth of the Aire. Nice spot for a spot of lunch.

 

Our timings will be of little use to anyone else as we wait for high water and plane on top of the tide.

 

Failing that there is also the option of taking the ebb to Trent End and anchoring there, then taking the next flood tide back up to Goole.

 

Again our timings wont be relevant to a displacement vessel but we let the tide run in for 20 minutes and then plane up the Ouse to Goole.

 

If you're suggesting that CygnusV waits for the next tide at Aire mouth, I think you should tell him how to avoid anchoring over the drying areas of sand and mud that will still be covered when he arrives there from Naburn.

After you've done that you'll be able to work out all the times, and advise about what he needs to know, for his boat instead of yours, and provide the necessary info. to get him into Goole at the right time, and the other matters that I mentioned in Post # 11 . . . . . . . won't you ? ! !

[Tony Dunkley]

So maybe break the journey on the way back down methinks

 

Peter

 

Yes, except for brief periods after longish spells of heavy rain, Naburn to Goole, although only about 30 miles, is best done with a minimum of a one tide, or one ebb stopover in the vicinity of Barmby. If timed correctly for the speed a boat can make, it will get you into Goole within Free Tide Time, after all the inbound or outbound shipping movements have finished, and still with plenty of water and depth from Howden to Goole railway bridge and over the bar in Sandhall reach.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[Poodler]

Hello Tony. Are we doing something wrong or are some people using a flying boat? Let me see if I've got it right? In the unlikely event of the river levels being OK for you to pen out of Naburn 2 hours before high water ( or penning out on the previous tide and mooring below the lock) it would be 3/4 hour before HW Goole. That gives you 2 1/4 hours to get to Goole before the 'free' locking time . The journey usually takes a cruiser 3 1/2 to 4 hours ( presumably longer for a narrowboat) and in this instance you would be doing the first part of the journey against the incoming tide and all the 'rubbish' that accompanies it and needs to be dodged plus, of course, the possibility of getting stuck if you've left Naburn too early! Therefore, with a following wind,plenty of water and no debris that needs to be passed with care, you'd arrive at Goole at least 1 1/4 hours too late for the free pen. We, and other boaters we know who do this trip, never expect to arrive for a free pen. We just know it can't be done and pay up. The difficulty at present is that boats are unlikely to arrive in time for any pen at all, unless the situation changes.

[Tony Dunkley]

Hello Tony. Are we doing something wrong or are some people using a flying boat? Let me see if I've got it right? In the unlikely event of the river levels being OK for you to pen out of Naburn 2 hours before high water ( or penning out on the previous tide and mooring below the lock) it would be 3/4 hour before HW Goole. That gives you 2 1/4 hours to get to Goole before the 'free' locking time . The journey usually takes a cruiser 3 1/2 to 4 hours ( presumably longer for a narrowboat) and in this instance you would be doing the first part of the journey against the incoming tide and all the 'rubbish' that accompanies it and needs to be dodged plus, of course, the possibility of getting stuck if you've left Naburn too early! Therefore, with a following wind,plenty of water and no debris that needs to be passed with care, you'd arrive at Goole at least 1 1/4 hours too late for the free pen. We, and other boaters we know who do this trip, never expect to arrive for a free pen. We just know it can't be done and pay up. The difficulty at present is that boats are unlikely to arrive in time for any pen at all, unless the situation changes.

Hello Poodler,

No, you're probably not doing anything wrong at all, other than assuming that the recommendations and advice available from C&RT lock keepers is comprehensive and exhaustive. Unfortunately the advice available for pleasure craft from this source nowadays is very limited in it's scope and value, partly by the experience of the lock keepers themselves, purely as lock keepers rather than as former commercial carrying craft skippers, but in the main by the instructions they are given by C&RT's Office Chair Polishers (I'm reluctant to use the word management to describe them) to restrict advice down to the absolute minimum in order to avoid any possible liability attaching to the Trust in the event of a mishap. In the days when the lock keepers at the tidal locks, including the side locks, on the Trent and the Ouse were all ex- bargemen with many years experience of day to day tidal working of commercial vessels, there was an extensive range of good, sound advice available to pleasure boaters, but nowadays, sadly, the prime consideration is 'managerial' arse covering.

Below is a post of mine from another thread with a basic explanation of making Goole from Naburn within Free Tide Time, but the specifics obviously change from day to day and must be decided immediately prior to passage.

_______________________________________

It is possible to time your arrival at Goole to be within the free tide times when coming downriver from Selby or Naburn but the timing from Naburn in particular is not easy to work out, being influenced by a number of factors which change from day to day as well as the depth of water your boat draws and the time of year, the latter due to the Ouse being generally a foot or two deeper from Naburn down in the Spring and early Summer than it is by the Autumn and early Winter. All down to the mud which is carried up with every tide settling out in the upper reaches throughout periods of least rainfall being scoured and washed back downriver again by the increased 'fresh' from Winter rainfall.

Another alternative to get you to Goole no later than 1-1/2(1.5) hours after local HW is to stop over at, or near, Barmby for one tide and then get underway from there about half an hour before HW at Goole. You'll be pushing against the last of the Flood, but depending on how well your boat gets along you will be somewhere near Asselby Island or Boothferry at HW there. You'll have 2 hours to do the 9 and a bit miles from Barmby to Goole and be within the free tide time for Ocean Lock at Goole.

Just a few words of caution, if you're doing this either when tides are taking off ( reducing down to Neaps) or at the top of Springs, avoid grounding at HW, or you could find yourself waiting anything from a day up to a fortnight before there's a big enough tide to float you off again. The deepest water from Boothferry Bridge to below Hospital Island is not always where you'd expect it to be, it moves over quickly to the south side of the river just down from the M62 Bridge and is closer than you'd expect to the ness opposite the wharves at Howden. I don't know what's available in the way of maps or charts down to Hook Railway Bridge, but there's everything you could ever need published by ABP from there down.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[Poodler]

Thanks for that, Tony. Unfortunately our boat draws 3'6" and this means we do need the tide to be well up in the upper reaches in one or two notorious spots, such as by Manor Farm (I think I've got the name right). We are too high for Selby and Barnby leaving us little choice. It looks like trips to York are off for us for the present but I'm sure things will get back to normal. We'll stick to turning right when we leave Goole!

 

I agree that the advice can be dodgy! We've known people get into to a real pickle after following CRT advice and have, ourselves, been 'advised' at times about when to leave places and the advice is obviously wrong. Happy Boating, Poodler.