Beta marine

[kevink]

I have a28hp. Beta Marin engine at the weekend the starter motor burnt out. I cannot see how to remove it. Any info would be much appreciated. KevinK

[Theo]

This will get more relevant attention in "Equipment".

 

Moving.

 

N

[Timleech]

On some Betas it's an absolute nightmare. You need three arms, double jointed sockets with extensions about 3' long and a huge amount of patience. I don't know whether or not this applies to yours.

I only know this because a boat was abandoned here by RCR when their fitter couldn't manage the job, he went away & never came back, & I was asked to sort it out.

 

Tim

[bag 'o' bones]

Starter motor burnt out? criky ....relatevily rare thing these days on the newer stuff.

Without trying to be a no it all have you checked the easier stuff first? Like fuses, solonoids that sort of thing?

Changing a starter motor only to find its ok and the problem is something else (don't ask how I know that) is a bit of a pain.

[Timleech]

Starter motor burnt out? criky ....relatevily rare thing these days on the newer stuff.

Without trying to be a no it all have you checked the easier stuff first? Like fuses, solonoids that sort of thing?

Changing a starter motor only to find its ok and the problem is something else (don't ask how I know that) is a bit of a pain.

 

The one I mentioned above, the real problem was that the starter battery was 8 years old and had suddenly decided it wasn't going to play any more.

However, the RCR guy had decided that the starter was at fault and had part-way removed it before giving up. I decided the best bet was to finish removing the starter and check it over anyway, it was less than perfect but would very likely have done a few more years. With all the trouble removing, safest bet was to fit new (not at Beta prices, though!).

 

Tim

[keble]

Give Beta a ring. They are really helpful

[kevink]

Thanks Guys starter definitely burnt out it was on fire.Dont know why ,engine started fine and was run for ten mins when I smelt burning starter was glowing with smoke pouring from it.kevink

[Southern Star]

Thanks Guys starter definitely burnt out it was on fire.Dont know why ,engine started fine and was run for ten mins when I smelt burning starter was glowing with smoke pouring from it.kevink

The starter motor didn't disengage. That already would be a fairly terminal problem even before the engine carried on spinning it for ten minutes, for now alas, it's toast.

[Guest]

The starter motor didn't disengage. That already would be a Same happened to a car of my dad's someyears ago.airly terminal problem even before the engine carried on spinning it for ten minutes, for now alas, it's toast.

Same happened to a car of my dad's some years ago. The key switch had got jammed into the "start" position without him realising at the time. Same result, a flaming starter motor.

[Jim Batty]

Give Beta a ring. They are really helpful

 

I second this. Beta's technical people are very helpful. I've even caught them at work on a Saturday morning.

[Tony Brooks]

I am a bit mystified over how it happened. I have never had a good look at a Beta starter so it is possible that Kubota have indulged in a bit of "value engineering" to cut costs but a diesel engine is likely to try to start on one cylinder and when they do this the power pulses would tend to over-speed the starter. To prevent this diesel starters typically uses a free wheel or one way clutch so the flywheel can over-speed the armature without damage.

 

If the starter is held engaged for a longish time this mechanism may well seize up and allow the flywheel to drive the armature. Likewise if a lot of water has been thrown around the pinion that free wheel may have seized up.

 

I would be very interested to hear more about this failure when it is known.

[gazza]

I am a bit mystified over how it happened. I have never had a good look at a Beta starter so it is possible that Kubota have indulged in a bit of "value engineering" to cut costs but a diesel engine is likely to try to start on one cylinder and when they do this the power pulses would tend to over-speed the starter. To prevent this diesel starters typically uses a free wheel or one way clutch so the flywheel can over-speed the armature without damage.

 

If the starter is held engaged for a longish time this mechanism may well seize up and allow the flywheel to drive the armature. Likewise if a lot of water has been thrown around the pinion that free wheel may have seized up.

 

I would be very interested to hear more about this failure when it is known.

Kubota don't make starters.

 

The starter motor fitted to Kubota is a fairly standard Nippon Denso unit. They are also available with reduction gearing allowing a small motor to be fitted.

 

After falling thru the floor at the prices for replacement d722 starters online I took one to my local motor factors and got it for half the price.

[Tony Brooks]

I know that Kubota don't make starters but they do specify what they want to fit.

[gazza]

Which is Nippon Denso, a quality make if ever there was....

[Tony Brooks]

Who may well produce exactly what a major customer demands but perhaps not under their own name. The point I was trying to make is that as I had not had a Beta starter apart I had no way of knowing if it was equipped with a one way or sprag clutch but I expected to to be. If it is then the damage should never have occurred unless the clutch was made to work for a long period or it had seized. Pre-engage starters should not jamb in mesh because they do not bur the flywheel teeth like inertia starters so we are left with some other fault or a clutch seizure. Fitting a new starter without finding out how this happened could cause it to happen again - very soon. However this is all predicated upon the starter being fitted with such a device.

[gazza]

The ones I have dealt with have a ND sticker on them - makes ID'ing them nice and easy

 

Yes they do have a one way roller clutch on the starter pinion. The normal failure for this is the clutch failing to hold resulting in no transmission of torque to the flywheel - the starter merrily spins away but does not wind the engine over.

 

My guess with this one is the fork that the solenoid pulls to engage the pinion jammed, this leaves the main starter contact made and would soon have plenty of heat to turn it into a bit of a mess.

[Tony Brooks]

The ones I have dealt with have a ND sticker on them - makes ID'ing them nice and easy

 

Yes they do have a one way roller clutch on the starter pinion. The normal failure for this is the clutch failing to hold resulting in no transmission of torque to the flywheel - the starter merrily spins away but does not wind the engine over.

 

My guess with this one is the fork that the solenoid pulls to engage the pinion jammed, this leaves the main starter contact made and would soon have plenty of heat to turn it into a bit of a mess.

 

Agreed, but the question is why? If the flywheel is throwing water about or does it sometimes then that needs sorting out as well. Likewise if the solenoid armature jammed in the engaged position.

[kevink]

Sorry I have been so long in responding beta were very helpful sent me info and photos of how to remove starter . Burn out was caused by ignition switch not returning to run position leaving a supply to the starter.kevink

[keble]

Hey good news. Another good one for Beta!