HIN number location on Steve Hudson boat

[raymondh]

Hmm,

What part of the info below did your builder not understand - this is ths simple version the actual standards that your builder was legaly obliged to follow have a lot more detail

Who was your builder?

 

The Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) sets minimum requirements of a boat guaranteeing its suitability for sale and use within the European Union.

These requirements cover all aspects of the boat from identification marks to strength of construction, stability and handling, from gas, electric and fuel system installations to owner’s documentation.

The RCD was implemented in the UK as the Recreational Craft Regulations and came into force on 16 June 1998. Any boat placed on the EU market after this date, whether a new build or imported from outside the EU, must be CE-marked.

• Look for ‘Craft Identification Number’ (CIN) on transom, 14 character number giving code for country of origin, manufacturers identity, serial number and date of manufacture and model year.
• A ‘Builders Plate’ with manufactures name, maximum load, maximum number of persons, design category and CE mark.
• The design category shown on the builders’ plate relates to the conditions for which the boat has been designed to accommodate.
• A = Ocean, B=offshore, C= inshore and D=inland or sheltered coastal.
• Owner’s Manual with Recreational Craft Directive ‘Declaration of Conformity’ attached.
• All craft should have a suitable mooring point.
• All craft should be able to be re-boarded from the water.
• All craft should be strong enough and have sufficient stability and buoyancy depending upon size.
• Fuel systems including LPG should be correctly installed.
• Electrical systems must be safe.
• For complete list of RCD essential requirements down load the BMF Boat builders guide to the RCD. http://www.britishmarine.co.uk/ ‘Technical’ -‘Publications’
• Ray

Edited May 9, 2015 by raymondh

[by'eck]

Found this

Recreational Craft Directive compliant vessels – 16th June 1998 onward

Hull identification serial numbers should on all vessels built after 16th June 1998 appear in the international ISO format with fourteen characters. The prefix should be the country code followed by the MIC (Manufacturers code) – three letters. This is followed by the production model and serial number followed by the month of production and year of production or model year.

This is set out in this example:

GB –MPP1A01234F001

GB (country code) Great Britain – MPP (Manufacturers Code,name), 1A (Model)1234 (serial no.) F (month of build), 001 (year of manufacture).

This hull identification number should always appear on the transom permanently moulded or etched into the hull and occasionally on a permanently affixed plate. This is in the majority of cases to the starboard side of the transom.

A second plate is often affixed within the vessel in a location known only to the manufacturer and sometimes the police.

Some steel/aluminium vessels (often narrowboats) have this identification number stamped into one of the surfaces within the engine room.

Suggests to me that the single brass plaque complies. Mines bolted through tapped holes in forward part of well deck with locknuts inside. Impossible to remove without assistance, which hopefully qualifies it as permanent.

[Murflynn]

You are too kind. But I no longer have any doubts. If these documents had been necessary, my builder would have supplied them. he didn't and, as he is an experienced professional, that's obviously because he had no need to.

oh well, if he is an experienced professional obviously he knows best.

 

good luck!

 

 

p.s. I'll bet if you told him he hadn't provided the necessary RCD documentation (certificate and owner's manual) he would be highly embarrassed and fix it quickly. Assuming your boat was built since 1998, of course.

 

 

regarding the CIN being marked on the CE plaque, there are different opinions:

 

Advice from YDSA:

Evidence of compliance will be found on the plaque provided by the boat builder which will, amongst other things, give a HIN/CIN (Hull/Craft Identification Number). This is a 14-digit number containing the manufacturer's code, year of build and model year. There should be a paper document as well - often found in the back of the owner's manual - whose details should agree with the plaque -and a list of the standards or equivalences used to achieve compliance. The builder's invoice and/or certificate may also give the HIN. The CE mark must be on the plaque as well.

 

Advice from a marine surveyor (Walsh Marine):

CE Plates do not have the CIN (Craft Identification Number) of the boat marked on them. This would be seperately marked on the starboard stern above the waterline. (he can't spell separately, don't blame me!)

Edited May 9, 2015 by Murflynn

[Athy]

oh well, if he is an experienced professional obviously he knows best.

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely, yes.

[Murflynn]

and knows more than the authorities, obviously

[Edders]

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

Looks like I will have to get it stamped somewhere in the engine room (as this is the easiest place to access).

 

Tony

[Athy]

and knows more than the authorities, obviously

[raymondh]

 

Edited May 9, 2015 by raymondh

[Pen n Ink]

I believe (and I speak as an ex-boatbuilder myself who had to deal with this all the time) that there may be some confusion being generated here by the strange habit we seem to have in the canal world of buying a shell from one place and getting it fitted out by another, unlinked, business.

 

If a "boatbuilder" supplies a completed craft, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the RCD must be complied with and the HIN is a part of that. If a "boat fitter" contracts with a customer to fit out a shell supplied by the customer, and acquired from elsewhere, then technically that will fall under the "self build" regulations; RCD and thus HIN is not required if the boat is not sold within 5 years.

 

Many people will, however, take the (imho) view that to have the entire process overseen and documented by a qualified surveyor, which will allow the owner to be sure that the new boat complies with the RCD and to then obtain a HIN for the boat post construction.

 

Sadly, in the discussion above, it is quite possible for everyone to be correct!

[Murflynn]

If Athy's boat was a Hudson shell that was completed by Athy (1), it still needs a document pack to show compliance with Annex 3 requirements. Athy said there was no handbook of any kind (2). Clarification needed on both points.

 

....... and unless things have changed, Cat D compliance can be achieved by self-certification without the involvement of a surveyor.

[Athy]

If Athy's boat was a Hudson shell that was completed by Athy (1), it still needs a document pack to show compliance with Annex 3 requirements. Athy said there was no handbook of any kind (2). Clarification needed on both points.

 

....... and unless things have changed, Cat D compliance can be achieved by self-certification without the involvement of a surveyor.

Thanks for that informed clarification, Mr. Ink.

It's a Mel Davis shell largely fitted by MG Boatfitters and completed by Fox's. I shall e-mail Mel and ask him about HINs etc.

[Murflynn]

the HIN is provided, along with the CE plaque, by the Builder.

 

If Mel supplied a shell to Athy who then arranged the fitting then Athy is the Builder.

If Mel made the shell and then arranged for MG to fit it to Athy's requirements then Mel is the Builder.

If Mel supplied the shell to MG who contracted to supply a completed (or nearly completed) boat then MG is the Builder.

 

The Builder must comply with RCD if the boat is sold by the Builder within 5 years.

If the Builder is not Athy then it must have a full RCD.

If the Builder is Athy then it cannot be sold on within 5 years unless it has full RCD.

[Athy]

Well that's as clear as mud. For one thing, although Mel recommended MG Boatfitting to us I can't remember whether it was Mel or us who commissioned MG, and in any case MG is no longer in the business.

 

But the boat is now 8 years old so it should not matter, if I have understood correctly, for it has never been sold. We are the first owners.

[davidg]

I think this discussion typifies the confusion and unsatisfactory nature of the way the HIN/CIN works.

 

The whole RCD apparatus seems to operate on the basis that a customer goes to a boat shop to buy a boat in the same way that they would go to a car shop to buy a car or a bread shop to buy a loaf of bread: this is not, usually, the way canal boat building works and the RCD procedure has to be bent around to accommodate this. It is perfectly possible that the person responsible for signing off the RCD declaration - the last person to work on the boat - could be the boat painter or person who does the upholstery, after everyone else has signed their annex IIIA declaration. Try running that past the average upholsterer, particularly when they have to get their stamps/welder out to put the CIN on the boat!

 

It would make more sense for the CIN to be provided by the hull builder. The boat would then have a identity number it could carry through subsequent build stages. Why it wasn't implemented in this way is beyond me but I'm sure the consultants who advised on it had their reasons.

[Edders]

the HIN is provided, along with the CE plaque, by the Builder.

 

If Mel supplied a shell to Athy who then arranged the fitting then Athy is the Builder.

If Mel made the shell and then arranged for MG to fit it to Athy's requirements then Mel is the Builder.

If Mel supplied the shell to MG who contracted to supply a completed (or nearly completed) boat then MG is the Builder.

 

The Builder must comply with RCD if the boat is sold by the Builder within 5 years.

If the Builder is not Athy then it must have a full RCD.

If the Builder is Athy then it cannot be sold on within 5 years unless it has full RCD.

So, to try and clarify my personal position. I commissioned Steve Hudson to build a fully fitted boat so in 2006 and took delivery in 2007. I received an owners manual along with full RCD documentation and HIN. I have a HIN plate with the number stamped on but as yet it has not been fixed to the hull. As I stated before I have been unable to find the HIN anywhere stamped on the hull in all the places suggested by forum members etc.

 

We have been advised that the boat is therefore technically illegal. Will it be legal if I just get the number stamped on the hull by myself or a third party because as you all probably know the builder has passed away? What are the alternatives if any? I have tried googling this but cannot find an answer that covers my position.

 

Thanks

 

Tony

[Pen n Ink]

It would not be advisable for you or anyone else to try to "fudge the issue" at this stage.

 

Firstly, you should attach the HIN plate to the hull as soon as possible. Secondly, just because you haven't found the number doesn't mean it isn't there. Oddly enough, although the requirement is that the number is "permanently etched" ( or welded etc) there is no requirement that the number has to be visible. Strange but true. If the number was etched into the hull, covered in filler and painted over, all requirements have been met.

 

Totally self-defeating, but true; and who is to say that hasn't happened here?

 

Murflynn is absolutely correct by the way - both Cat C and Cat D can be self-certified by the builder without reference to a surveyor. Thus rendering the entire thing academic.

[Murflynn]

So, to try and clarify my personal position. I commissioned Steve Hudson to build a fully fitted boat so in 2006 and took delivery in 2007. I received an owners manual along with full RCD documentation and HIN. I have a HIN plate with the number stamped on but as yet it has not been fixed to the hull. As I stated before I have been unable to find the HIN anywhere stamped on the hull in all the places suggested by forum members etc.

 

We have been advised that the boat is therefore technically illegal. Will it be legal if I just get the number stamped on the hull by myself or a third party because as you all probably know the builder has passed away? What are the alternatives if any? I have tried googling this but cannot find an answer that covers my position.

 

Thanks

 

Tony

if you know the CIN then you can attach it. (You should have CIN, not HIN which is usually the name for the hull builder's yard number.)

Is the HIN plate actually a CE plaque? That must be fixed to the boat, usually inside near the rear doors.

[Murflynn]

I think this discussion typifies the confusion and unsatisfactory nature of the way the HIN/CIN works.

 

The whole RCD apparatus seems to operate on the basis that a customer goes to a boat shop to buy a boat in the same way that they would go to a car shop to buy a car or a bread shop to buy a loaf of bread: this is not, usually, the way canal boat building works and the RCD procedure has to be bent around to accommodate this. It is perfectly possible that the person responsible for signing off the RCD declaration - the last person to work on the boat - could be the boat painter or person who does the upholstery, after everyone else has signed their annex IIIA declaration. Try running that past the average upholsterer, particularly when they have to get their stamps/welder out to put the CIN on the boat!

 

It would make more sense for the CIN to be provided by the hull builder. The boat would then have a identity number it could carry through subsequent build stages. Why it wasn't implemented in this way is beyond me but I'm sure the consultants who advised on it had their reasons.

 

not true.

 

A painter cannot possibly be responsible for RCD compliance unless he has contracted for the fitting out and sub-let all the work except the painting.

The Builder is normally assumed to be the person who did the fitting out; a lot of the RCD requirements are related to fitting out: electrics, gas, and other safety critical issues.

The shell supplier is responsible for the scantlings, flooding openings, stability, which is why he must provide Annex 3. He cannot possibly sign for compliance of the issues arising during fitting out unless it is in his scope and he subcontracts it to a specialist or does it himself.

There is no reason why the shell supplier cannot request a CIN, but the responsibility lies with the person doing RCD compliance. The CIN is,as you say, just an identifier.

[davidg]

As I understand it the person responsible for RCD compliance is "normally the person who completes the boat". I'd have to look up where this came from but the question is: who completes the boat?

Of course it would be ludicrous to ask the painter to oversee RCD compliance but if they are the last person writing invoices why not? When is a boat complete? And of course the CIN hinges on this because as currently specified it contains the completion date, which is another reason it would be better for the hull builder to provide the CIN with hull completion date coded into it. The boat completion date (whenever that is) can be on the declaration and in the technical file.

[Murflynn]

And of course the CIN hinges on this because as currently specified it contains the completion date, which is another reason it would be better for the hull builder to provide the CIN with hull completion date coded into it. The boat completion date (whenever that is) can be on the declaration and in the technical file.

 

if that is the case (it makes sense) then I was mistaken when suggesting that it can be registered by the shell builder.

 

As I understand it the person responsible for RCD compliance is "normally the person who completes the boat". I'd have to look up where this came from but the question is: who completes the boat?

 

 

 

 

Completing the boat means completing all the essential systems, and it is normally assumed that this is done by one entity, even if that entity sub-lets the work to specialists.

If the owner contracts with different parties to do various tasks then the owner assumes the responsibility of the Builder.

The Builder's name appears on the CE plaque