K2 manifold cracked

[Skipari]

Good morning.

 

Inspecting my K2 to prepare for refit and conversion to dry exhauster I found a capillary long crack in the manifold yesterday. This crack was hardly to be seen by eye, hadn't it been marked by a line of rusty brown water droplets, maybe indicating a context with salt.

I will of course try to weld it carefully if possible, but the manifold is in a badly corroded state already after long decades of work and I guess I'd better look for a replacement anyway.

 

Before starting to weld a replica, any better advice for replacements would be very welcome.

[jake_crew]

I'd suggest a thorough sandblasting followed by brazing or bronze welding.

 

Start off by drilling "crack stopper" holes at each end, and plugging them with grub screws or some such.

Edited December 8, 2014 by jake_crew

[Proper Job]

I'd go for silver soldering or the like rather than CI welding

[Skipari]

Excuse me please that I didn't hit the Kelvin Sub-forum by mistake,

and thank you for your comments.

 

I did weld cast iron on my boat in the past, - sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't work depending on the chemistry. If it doesn't work with the manifold I'll willingly learn stitching and soldering of course.

But anyway sooner or later I will need a replacement, why not now. Since I am far away from your market, - is there any chance to find a spare part or a reproduction, or have I to make a welded replica myself?

[jake_crew]

Just in case you don't realise, please don't confuse silver soldering (brazing) with soft soldering (electrical and plumbing).

[Skipari]

Better safe than sorry, thank you. But I guess we have the same terms: "hard-soldering" and "hart-löten" (Ge).

 

[koukouvagia]

I'm not sure how easy it is to find a replacement exhaust for a K2. However, if the worst comes to the worst you could replace your wet exhaust wiht a dry one. This would be much easier to fabricate. It's basically a cast iron pipe with a couple of flanges and an elbow.

My K2 has a dry exhaust as shown.

 

 

[Skipari]

I expected that, but hope dies last. And I still hope...

Since I was convinced that it is no problem for a K2 in a pleasure boat, I fitted a closed cycle cooling system on the bottom plates and we are going to convert from wet to dry exhaust.

I personally have never seen a Kelvin with a dry exhaust. I only know my (and others) K2 with a wet exhaust and this Kelvin spare part drawing:

 

 

Thanks for your photo. Is your dry exhaust manifold a Kelvin original?

[koukouvagia]

 

Thanks for your photo. Is your dry exhaust manifold a Kelvin original?

Yes, it's original. My engine was originally installed in a lighthouse to charge up the air receiver for the foghorn. There is quite a number of these former "lighthouse engines" successfully installed in narrowboats.

[onionbargee]

You can stick weld it, with a nickel electrode, preheat, and post heat. It works, and is easier than other methods. Finding someone experienced in this process might be the hardest part.

[Timleech]

Just in case you don't realise, please don't confuse silver soldering (brazing) with soft soldering (electrical and plumbing).

 

Some cast iron will take silver solder OK, with some you would really struggle.

 

You might need to re-face the joint surfaces after any welding or brazing, check for distortion.

 

Tim

[Skipari]

Thank you. We will have to wait til January for my first welding test. Usually I start cold with nickel and will follow with nickel-iron after the usual preparation of the crack. This procedure needs some time but worked very fine with historic old cast items like bollards and windlass bearings on my boat. In one case there hadn't been enough carbon, and I took the broken original as a pattern for a re-cast.

If the exhaust manifold doesn't take the UTP 8, we'll have a new situation, but nothing is lost then, we may switch to hot welding or soldering then.

My problem isn't really the welding procedere, - welding experience and procedere advice is available in any language - Kelvin experience is only available in your country. I am living in the former Kingdom of Hannover, thus my photo of the sea flag which waved on the Hannoveran sea ships until the Prussian invasion. In this country there is no Kelvin but my K2, which had already been in Keel MYSTIC long before WW2. So my problem is to find knowledge and advice about spare parts or reproductions in the native country of my barge and her engine. Maybe there is still another lighthouse... ;-)

[rjasmith]

Sounds like you might like a chat with Andy Bruce or John Dick at Seaward Engineering in Glasgow (Tel No +44 141 632 4910). They are probably the most knowledgeable Kelvin engineers around and have a relative mountain of spares in their big shed in Pollokshaws Rd!

 

You may find it challenging talking to them with their wonderful Glaswegian accents (it's hard enough for me to understand, coming from Southern England but who knows maybe someone from Hannover will have no problem!!).

 

I also have a dry manifold on a K2 (the same as Koukouvagia) and I think most of the engines rebuilt by Andy and John tend to have them as well but they may have a serviceable wet one to sell to you or be able to advise further on repairing your cracked one.

 

Andy and John are not very good with modern technology - no website and probably no email either. They are also not noted for doing things fast! You may need to be patient!

 

I also haven't dealt with them for a year or two so don't know whether they are still as active as they used to be - hope they are!

 

For a bit of fun here they are playing with a big TBSC8 - Andy is the one with the cap. Click here.

 

Good Luck!

 

Richard

Edited December 14, 2014 by rjasmith

[Skipari]

Thank you, Richard, - I hadn't been in Glasgow since ages, but I remember this accent from the Glasgow crew of a gas platform in the Northsea, where we stopped with our seakayaks some years ago. At least they understood my poor English... Nice film, nice engine, nice man. :-)