Owatrol alternative?

[Polishicebreaker]

A man told me linseed oil in paint works just as well as owatrol. Is this bollocks or has anyone tried such shenanigans ?

If not, I may be the first.

[Kae]

Google boiled linseed oil and have a read

[Polishicebreaker]

Looks good to me! It's oily and takes a long time to dry, should help the paint flow?

I may be just being optimistic

Also read its edible, mmmm

[MtB]

I would imagine the chemists who develop paint formulations find it highly amusing that people who know nothing about paint composition are happy to accept advice from the bloke in the pub, who probably knows even less

 

Are you having problems making your paint 'flow' then? It would be better to ask the technical services dept at the paint manufacture what is wrong.

 

MtB

[Barge Maria]

The old Dutch bargees use 50% boiled lo and 50 owatrol mixture to paint walkways and rubbing strakes. No pigment is used and it goes a lovely brown colour. I use it on the rubbing strakes as you only need to wipe a blob on when it gets scuffed. LO as a paint additive be means the paint will take ages to dry unless you use a siccatief to speed up drying. Then you lose your flow.... As MtB implies, the paint people generally know their products better than we do!

[Neil2]

I suppose it is human nature to look for a cheaper alternative when something seems outrageously expensive like Owatrol, but there's a reason for it - Owatrol is a proven industry standard that really works. I don't really know what motivates those people who insist that it's just linseed, or even worse, fish oil.

[Polishicebreaker]

Fair point, I'll get my coat.

[MtB]

Fair point, I'll get my coat.

 

 

But you never explained the problem you are trying to address.

 

WHY are you considering adding Owatrol, boiled linseed, or whatever to your paint?

 

I suggest you ring the technical services dept at the paint manufacturer for detailed advice on your exact problem. They WILL have heard it all before!

 

MtB

[Polishicebreaker]

Sorry, basically I've had a problem with topcoat being too sticky in the heat and not going on very well. A local dutch barge owner suggested mixing some linseed oil in the paint so it doesn't dry do quick. I now realise this is a simplistic idea that can't possibly be better than buying the thinner for my paint or some owatrol. Cheers

[cherswud]

How about waiting until the weather is not so hot to do your painting? Or do it first thing in the morning before it really heats up? Thinners tend to evaporate quickly and may not give you as much additional time/viscosity as you need. One of the pieces of advice on the tin is most likely to be the temperature range in which application of the paint is recommended.

Marilyn (nb Waka Huia)

[Higgs]

I suppose it is human nature to look for a cheaper alternative when something seems outrageously expensive like Owatrol, but there's a reason for it - Owatrol is a proven industry standard that really works. I don't really know what motivates those people who insist that it's just linseed, or even worse, fish oil.

 

Owatrol is not the industrial standard for Epifanes paints who have their own version called Easy Flow. And people never get to understand what their paint can do, because they're always sticking stuff in it.

[Neil2]

I think it was one of the painting experts on the forum that said almost all paint sold for marine use needs a conditioner, and I would guess most general "exterior" gloss paints as well. I assume there's two reasons for this, first when you're painting outside the paint is probably going to dry a lot quicker than inside which can make it difficult to get a smooth finish especially on large surface areas, but I also wonder if there's a tendency these days to make gloss paints more viscous so you need fewer coats?

 

As for Epifanes, I'm happy to be corrected but I don't think there's an application for steel boats most of their products are aimed at the wood/grp market aren't they?

[Higgs]

I think it was one of the painting experts on the forum that said almost all paint sold for marine use needs a conditioner, and I would guess most general "exterior" gloss paints as well. I assume there's two reasons for this, first when you're painting outside the paint is probably going to dry a lot quicker than inside which can make it difficult to get a smooth finish especially on large surface areas, but I also wonder if there's a tendency these days to make gloss paints more viscous so you need fewer coats?

 

As for Epifanes, I'm happy to be corrected but I don't think there's an application for steel boats most of their products are aimed at the wood/grp market aren't they?

 

 

It's tosh to think paint needs conditioner. Paint is the product that comes out of the tin and companies spend a small fortune on research and development to provide a complete product for the task. And Epifanes produce paint for boats (all steel), I used it for 11 years.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Higgs

[Neil2]

 

 

It's tosh to think paint needs conditioner. Paint is the product that comes out of the tin and companies spend a small fortune on research and development to provide a complete product for the task. And Epifanes produce paint for boats (all steel), I used it for 11 years.

I'll bow to your greater knowledge on Epifanes,but when I looked at the product range some time ago there didn't seem to be much for painting steel, unless you wanted it white... Can't seem to get to their website at the moment so if you can give us a clue as to which product is suitable for narrowboats I would be genuinely grateful.

[Higgs]

I'll bow to your greater knowledge on Epifanes,but when I looked at the product range some time ago there didn't seem to be much for painting steel, unless you wanted it white... Can't seem to get to their website at the moment so if you can give us a clue as to which product is suitable for narrowboats I would be genuinely grateful.

 

 

They have about 46 colours in the one part yacht enamels and about half that number for two pack. Their site is being upgraded at the moment, I just tried. If you google Epifanes, it will bring up links to the site. The yacht enamels are fine for narrow boats. International's colours (Toplac) are yacht enamels too. The big difference is that International's colour range is not very big.

 

International had a product called Brightside which I liked. Unfortunately, they seem to have stopped that range.

 

The only product I would not use is Epifanes' deck paint; too thin for my liking; that is, the non-slip stuff. Their floor paint is fine.

 

Epifanes' gloss is consistently glossy. They have a chart of numbered colours, not very descriptive. The chart I have is not up to the minute, but Burgandy, which they do as an alternative to Internationals, is not on and wasn't on the colour chart. They may have included that on newer charts.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Higgs

[Phil Speight]

Synthetic paints ( and that`s what we`re discussing here ) vary in consistency depending on temperature. They also flow at different rates in different conditions. This is why one of the most vital skills of a coach-painter is to know how to treat the paint on different days. I was trained in the mid-sixties at a wagon works in Bradford. If the paint needed easing to make it flow more readily on a given day we used boiled linseed oil. Modern brushing additives however are one of the few areas in the trade where recent developements are a genuine inprovement. Owatrol ( yes it is based on Fish-oil as I understand it ) is vastly better than linseed oil in that it maintains some of the paint properties that could be lost by using additives. Most manufacturers offer brushing additives , some oil based and some that work chemically - they would hardly bother if there was no need for such things. However, where it all falls down is when a painter realizes how helpful they can be in achieving an impressive finish and uses these products all the time and in too great a quantity. I`ve been painting some body panels for an old Riley saloon this week. In the workshop with ideal temperatures there has been no need to modify the paint to achieve a coach finish. Next week who knows, if I need to help the paint a little I shall use an additive - as small an amount as possible - content in the knowledge that the master who taught me would have no complaint.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Phil Speight

[Barge Maria]

Thanks Phil. I doubt anyone will argue with your knowledge and reputation!! I wonder if you would answer a related question. I sorry its really bog-basic but... Thinning paint from the tin. My barge uses Epiphanes single pack enamel (Bootslak), I'm very pleased with it but I find their instructions about thinning confusing. Before slapping it on (sorry!) should I thin it? Is there a hard and fast rule? I can't be alone in wondering....can I??

[Higgs]

Thanks Phil. I doubt anyone will argue with your knowledge and reputation!! I wonder if you would answer a related question. I sorry its really bog-basic but... Thinning paint from the tin. My barge uses Epiphanes single pack enamel (Bootslak), I'm very pleased with it but I find their instructions about thinning confusing. Before slapping it on (sorry!) should I thin it? Is there a hard and fast rule? I can't be alone in wondering....can I??

 

 

You can thin this paint with white spirits. Too much will kill the gloss. Used it for many years and can't remember reading a tin once. It's not so easy trying to convey the absolute amount of thinners (white spirits). The steel could be hot, the air could be hot. At some temperatures, I wouldn't even bother to paint. The steel should feel cool and slightly cold to touch. The warmer the steel, the quicker you'll need to work.

 

The paint should be thick enough to hold the hairs of the brush together and should flow freely and spread without it feeling too sticky. If your brushing out or laying off leaves the previous brush marks not fully altered to the direction you're working, try a little more thinning. You can experiment on parts of the boat, before you reach the final coat.

 

If the paint is too thick, the hairs of the brush will clump together in split groups.The brush will begin to clog and wont flex properly. If the paint is too thin, the hairs will not stay together and spring apart.

 

Apart from white spirits, I never used additives and picked and planned the times to paint; they weren't always convenient times, but the work had to go on as scheduled. I spent the whole of my boat painting career wishing for overcast days.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Higgs

[Phil Speight]

Nothing to add - that all makes perfect sense and such advice is best taken ! Personally I never put White Spirit in the paints I use - but then, I don`t use Bootlack and all paints must be treated in their own particular way. As for overcast days - yes indeed and, if it can be arranged on high, a steady temperature of between 55 and 65 decrees F would be nice as well. Oh...and no wind , no dust and good lighting. Dream on eh !

[Barge Maria]

Higgs and Phil, thanks for taking the trouble to reply guys. Very informative and detailed. I will try to put the info to good use. Most days here in central Belgium are about 28 deg C at the mo with condensation forming from about 8pm and a heavy dew. Not ideal! Perseverance!!!

[Higgs]

Nothing to add - that all makes perfect sense and such advice is best taken ! Personally I never put White Spirit in the paints I use - but then, I don`t use Bootlack and all paints must be treated in their own particular way. As for overcast days - yes indeed and, if it can be arranged on high, a steady temperature of between 55 and 65 decrees F would be nice as well. Oh...and no wind , no dust and good lighting. Dream on eh !

 

What did you use to alter the viscosity of the paint. I don't paint anymore, but I'm curious.

[Phil Speight]

All I say isbased on my personal experience and I have no wish to imply that just because I don`t do something it would be wrong for anybody else with painting experience to do that which I don`t !

On that basis - I never use White Spirit because it is a fast solvent and has no constructive properties. I always thought that it was the equivalent of watering your cuppa down.( Other genuine painters disagree. ) There will already be a quantity of it within the binder element of the paint and the manufacturer will have measured that quantity very carefully. So I don`t set out to thin the paint as such. Obviously any additive which makes the flow easier must be affecting the viscosity of the paint on application - but the intention is that the resultant dry coat will retain it`s integrity and the solid content will be largely unaffected when the film is dry. ( Im saying all this in reply to Higgs but he already has a good professional`s knowledge - so a lot here is so that other readers get the picture clearly. I`m not trying to teach my granny to suck eggs. As it were ! ) Chemical additives such as Craftmaster PPA will do this while Owatrol may remove some properties while replacing them with it`s own. All the manufactuer paint adjusters work in one or other of these ways and I have used them AT NEED for years.

Like many old hands though I`d much rather do without and when possible I use the paint as it comes and it took much persuasion to get me to use them in the first place. It`s the one area in which I have followed the more modern approach while always being mindful that too much additive is a very bad thing and that many painters bomb the paint to death with the stuff to achieve a finish they couldn`t otherwise manage at their skill level. The various products available should never be used as a skill substitute.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Phil Speight

[Higgs]

All I say isbased on my personal experience and I have no wish to imply that just because I don`t do something it would be wrong for anybody else with painting experience to do that which I don`t !

On that basis - I never use White Spirit because it is a fast solvent and has no constructive properties. I always thought that it was the equivalent of watering your cuppa down.( Other genuine painters disagree. ) There will already be a quantity of it within the binder element of the paint and the manufacturer will have measured that quantity very carefully. So I don`t set out to thin the paint as such. Obviously any additive which makes the flow easier must be affecting the viscosity of the paint on application - but the intention is that the resultant dry coat will retain it`s integrity and the solid content will be largely unaffected when the film is dry. ( Im saying all this in reply to Higgs but he already has a good professional`s knowledge - so a lot here is so that other readers get the picture clearly. I`m not trying to teach my granny to suck eggs. As it were ! ) Chemical additives such as Craftmaster PPA will do this while Owatrol may remove some properties while replacing them with it`s own. All the manufactuer paint adjusters work in one or other of these ways and I have used them AT NEED for years.

Like many old hands though I`d much rather do without and when possible I use the paint as it comes and it took much persuasion to get me to use them in the first place. It`s the one area in which I have followed the more modern approach while always being mindful that too much additive is a very bad thing and that many painters bomb the paint to death with the stuff to achieve a finish they couldn`t otherwise manage at their skill level. The various products available should never be used as a skill substitute.

 

 

Thankyou for the reply, sorry it has taken some time to get to the laptop to say so.

[MtB]

 

You can thin this paint with white spirits. Too much will kill the gloss.

 

 

That's interesting. I hate that mirror-shiny gloss look that modern paints give you.

 

My goal in painting is for it to look weathered, ten years old and slightly matt as soon as it's dry.

 

Is there a recognised way to achieve this effect?!

 

 

MtB

P.S. Other than waiting for ten years, obviously

[Higgs]

 

 

That's interesting. I hate that mirror-shiny gloss look that modern paints give you.

 

My goal in painting is for it to look weathered, ten years old and slightly matt as soon as it's dry.

 

Is there a recognised way to achieve this effect?!

 

 

MtB

P.S. Other than waiting for ten years, obviously

 

 

Your so impatient.

 

You could try painting the boat under a drafty bridge and getting it all to bloom. You can also buy matting agents. I have to say, getting the paint to go flat was something I practiced to avoid. You're just wierd.