Vetus 415 (Mitsubishi S4L) heater plugs.

[Guest]

I have searched but can find nothing specific to this engine. Would anybody happen to know which heater plugs I need for this Vetus 415/Mitsu S4L engine (trying to avoid Vetus tax )? I used to go to Thornycroft for such advice, but they have quit marinising engines.

 

It has always been a superb starter in all temps., but this last week has been stubborn when starting cold (running fine otherwise.) It is needing much longer heater time, and splutters into life, leading me to believe the heaters are knackered (2500 hrs/ten years old.) I believe one of the relays on the engine feeds the heaters, so will check voltage at heaters before committing to buy.

 

Furthermore, I have never changed heater plugs before so any tips would be most welcome; are they barstewards to remove, hot or cold engine, freeing oil needed, copper grease on new ones ? that sort of thing.

 

Many thanks.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Guest

[Eeyore]

Those little relays work very hard for a living. At that age it's probably worth checking the socket and fitting a new relay, even if the glow plugs prove to be at fault. You probably already know that the relay comes in two versions; the pins are all in the same place but their numbering/internal connections are different.

Hopefully that's all it will need.

[Guest]

Those little relays work very hard for a living. At that age it's probably worth checking the socket and fitting a new relay, even if the glow plugs prove to be at fault. You probably already know that the relay comes in two versions; the pins are all in the same place but their numbering/internal connections are different.

Hopefully that's all it will need.

Thanks Eeyore will take a look tomorrow. I imagine a quick check would to be use a jump lead direct from battery to glowplugs and see if it fires up any easier? Will gladly take your advice and renew anyway even if plugs are knackered.

[Eeyore]

Thanks Eeyore will take a look tomorrow. I imagine a quick check would to be use a jump lead direct from battery to glowplugs and see if it fires up any easier? Will gladly take your advice and renew anyway even if plugs are knackered.

Sounds like the standard test to me ;-)

[Guest]

Sounds like the standard test to me ;-)

Cheers mate will give it a go.

[Barge Maria]

Speak to ASAP supplies for replacements. Almost certainly lower cost than gee..how much..tus!

[Guest]

Speak to ASAP supplies for replacements. Almost certainly lower cost than gee..how much..tus!

Thanks, I will try ASAP

[Alan Saunders]

N.B. '(pre-) Heat(er) plugs' are also referred to as 'glow plugs', I believe incorrectly. I associate 'glow plugs' with 'semi-diesel' engines where a comparitively thin coil continues to 'glow' red hot, without external power, when the engine is running. e.g. Small model aero engines and Bolinders(?).

 

I have an old Vetus M3.10 (Mitsubishi K3D). When it was in 'good nick' it would start from very cold at half throttle with ten seconds of pre-heat. Possibly, full throttle sets the injector pump to overfuel, cold start but sources vary on this feature.

 

Removing the heater plugs is easy. However, the electrical terminal nuts tend to sieze and excessive torque could break the insulator.

 

Google found a service manual for the Mitsubishi S3/4, L/2 which gives the glow plug resistance as 0.55 Ohms (for 12V, 30 second plugs).

Google 'Mitsubishi S4L glow plug' and a Chinese supplier has the part number 32A66-03100.

Google '32A66-03100' and there are a few UK suppliers.

 

First check that the plugs are receiving adequate voltage - at least 11V. Otherwise, the relay and all the wiring harness AMP connectors are suspect.

Carefully (see above) remove all the connections to the plugs and check individual resistances. Replace any that are >0.6 Ohms or <0.5 Ohms.

If all the plugs are ~0.55 Ohms and voltage is good, remove all four plugs and clean off the carbon. They will be black, only a thick deposit of carbon will degrade their performance.

 

If you need new plugs you should find a part-number and spec. on the side of the plug but keep in mind that the wrong plug may have previously been fitted.

Any decent motor factor will be able to cross reference the part number or call their specialist supplier with the engine type (Vetus 4.15 and/or Mitsubishi S4L, and/or p/n 32A66-03100) 9am-5pm weekdays.

 

I always use copper grease, even on hot exhaust manifolds, and over, not in, battery terminals - it cannot do any harm, can it?

 

HTH, Alan

[Guest]

N.B. '(pre-) Heat(er) plugs' are also referred to as 'glow plugs', I believe incorrectly. I associate 'glow plugs' with 'semi-diesel' engines where a comparitively thin coil continues to 'glow' red hot, without external power, when the engine is running. e.g. Small model aero engines and Bolinders(?).

 

I have an old Vetus M3.10 (Mitsubishi K3D). When it was in 'good nick' it would start from very cold at half throttle with ten seconds of pre-heat. Possibly, full throttle sets the injector pump to overfuel, cold start but sources vary on this feature.

 

Removing the heater plugs is easy. However, the electrical terminal nuts tend to sieze and excessive torque could break the insulator.

 

Google found a service manual for the Mitsubishi S3/4, L/2 which gives the glow plug resistance as 0.55 Ohms (for 12V, 30 second plugs).

Google 'Mitsubishi S4L glow plug' and a Chinese supplier has the part number 32A66-03100.

Google '32A66-03100' and there are a few UK suppliers.

 

First check that the plugs are receiving adequate voltage - at least 11V. Otherwise, the relay and all the wiring harness AMP connectors are suspect.

Carefully (see above) remove all the connections to the plugs and check individual resistances. Replace any that are >0.6 Ohms or <0.5 Ohms.

If all the plugs are ~0.55 Ohms and voltage is good, remove all four plugs and clean off the carbon. They will be black, only a thick deposit of carbon will degrade their performance.

 

If you need new plugs you should find a part-number and spec. on the side of the plug but keep in mind that the wrong plug may have previously been fitted.

Any decent motor factor will be able to cross reference the part number or call their specialist supplier with the engine type (Vetus 4.15 and/or Mitsubishi S4L, and/or p/n 32A66-03100) 9am-5pm weekdays.

 

I always use copper grease, even on hot exhaust manifolds, and over, not in, battery terminals - it cannot do any harm, can it?

 

HTH, Alan

Superb, thanks. Will dig out the multilmeter

[Mac of Cygnet]

N.B. '(pre-) Heat(er) plugs' are also referred to as 'glow plugs', I believe incorrectly. I associate 'glow plugs' with 'semi-diesel' engines where a comparitively thin coil continues to 'glow' red hot, without external power, when the engine is running. e.g. Small model aero engines and Bolinders(?).

 

I have an old Vetus M3.10 (Mitsubishi K3D). When it was in 'good nick' it would start from very cold at half throttle with ten seconds of pre-heat. Possibly, full throttle sets the injector pump to overfuel, cold start but sources vary on this feature.

 

Removing the heater plugs is easy. However, the electrical terminal nuts tend to sieze and excessive torque could break the insulator.

 

 

Any decent motor factor will be able to cross reference the part number or call their specialist supplier with the engine type (Vetus 4.15 and/or Mitsubishi S4L, and/or p/n 32A66-03100) 9am-5pm weekdays.

 

 

 

HTH, Alan

 

I think you are being a bit optimistic here. Vetus well protect their part numbers, which are unique to them. I spent about a week a couple of years ago trawling the internet for Vetus heater plug equivalents, and finally had to part with £40 each for the two Vetus plugs I needed.

[Eeyore]

 

I think you are being a bit optimistic here. Vetus well protect their part numbers, which are unique to them. I spent about a week a couple of years ago trawling the internet for Vetus heater plug equivalents, and finally had to part with £40 each for the two Vetus plugs I needed.

Just to confirm Alans post.

32A66-03100 is the Mitsubishi part number for glow plugs used on the S4L base engine. (Mitsubishi call them glow plugs)

The specified torque for refitting the glow plugs is 1.75 +/-0.25 kgf-m (12.7 =/-1.8 lbf-ft) (17.2 +/-2.5 N-m)

The connection plate which joins all the plugs is 31A66-04101 (just in case!)

Diamond Diesels are the UK importer and distributor for Mitsubishi industrial diesels, they or your local plant hire/repairers should be able to supply any parts for Mitsubishi based products.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Eeyore

[Mac of Cygnet]

Just to confirm Alans post.

32A66-03100 is the Mitsubishi part number for glow plugs used on the S4L base engine. (Mitsubishi call them glow plugs)

The specified torque for refitting the glow plus is 1.75 +/-0.25 kgf-m (12.7 =/-1.8 lbf-ft) (17.2 +/-2.5 N-m)

The connection plate which joins all the plugs is 31A66-04101 (just in case!)

Diamond Diesels are the UK importer and distributor for Mitsubishi industrial diesels, they or your local plant hire/repairers should be able to supply any parts for Mitsubishi based products.

 

Thank you! But I wish I'd had this info a couple of years ago. £10 instead of £40!

[Pete & Helen]

 

Thank you! But I wish I'd had this info a couple of years ago. £10 instead of £40!

 

Same as the savings on stern tube seals at around a fiver for a pair instead of £100+ for the unit from Vetus. I'm sure there are lots more savings out there

[Mac of Cygnet]

 

Same as the savings on stern tube seals at around a fiver for a pair instead of £100+ for the unit from Vetus. I'm sure there are lots more savings out there

 

Details please! It'll all be filed away.

[Pete & Helen]

 

Details please! It'll all be filed away.

 

Seals are available from Simply Bearings see their site here

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=19_4463

Just put in the size you need and save yourself a fortune (maybe other suppliers but not to my knowledge) I fitted new seals a couple of weeks ago and are identical to the Vetus ones with the exception of their name on them. Note, there are 2 seals in the brass unit, both the same, so just order 2 of what you need.

All credit to John Dean who found this supplier and gave details of how to go about the job on this thread. Mine was slightly different to Johns as I didnt have an O ring but a thin paper gasket which I managed to reuse.

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66225&page=4

[Guest]

Thanks for all advice/suggestions. I got my trusty multi meter out this morning, borrowed the battery out of the smoke alarm and did some tests. As the glowplugs should be 0.5 ohms, I figured that four in parallel should read around 0.12 ohms. They in fact gave a reading of 0.25ohms, which to me suggests two dead plugs (this assumes good contacts from the busbar.)

I did a voltage test and was getting a miserable 9.5 volts at the busbar with the key in heat position. I took the relay out, flipped the cover off and cleaned the contacts with wet and dry. This immediately gave 10.5 volts at the busbar, and the engine fired up a little better than yesterday, though longer than normal in heat position required.

When I return home next month I am going to replace the plugs which I will buy from ASAP/Diamond Diesels or similar as I refuse to pay the Vetus price. I am also going to replace the relay with something more substantial, and replace the wiring, again with something more substantial.

Thanks again.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Guest

[Eeyore]

Thanks for all advice/suggestions. I got my trusty multi meter out this morning, borrowed the battery out of the smoke alarm and did some tests. As the glowplugs should be 0.5 ohms, I figured that four in parallel should read around 0.12 ohms. They in fact gave a reading of 0.25ohms, which to me suggests two dead plugs (this assumes good contacts from the busbar.)

I did a voltage test and was getting a miserable 9.5 volts at the busbar with the key in heat position. I took the relay out, flipped the cover off and cleaned the contacts with wet and dry. This immediately gave 10.5 volts at the busbar, and the engine fired up a little better than yesterday, though longer than normal in heat position required.

When I return home next month I am going to replace the plugs which I will buy from ASAP/Diamond Diesels or similar as I refuse to pay the Vetus price. I am also going to replace the relay with something more substantial, and replace the wiring, again with something more substantial.

Thanks again.

Interesting how apparently "under engineered" things can work reliably for so long!

My Mitsubishi S4L2 (from the USA) is factory fitted with something similar to the Cargo ( www.hc-cargo.com ) 235442 remote starter solenoid. It is mounted on a bracket above the bell housing, and uses very short runs of #10 AWG (5.26 sq mm) cable from the main terminal on the starter via the solenoid to the glow plugs, so 6 sq mm cable will do the job.

Will you be adding the upgrade to your Blog?

[Guest]

Yes I'll add it to my blog, along with the glow plug change and stern seal change. (The boat is ten years old next week and suddenly many things need "changing"!)

 

I have a large Durite relay that I will likely use as it has bolt on connectors rather than spade type, is double the amperage and they are readily available (I seem to recall that the factory fitted one by Vetus has a strange pin configuration?) I agree about 6mm sq should be OK as it is a very short run.

[Eeyore]

Yes I'll add it to my blog, along with the glow plug change and stern seal change. (The boat is ten years old next week and suddenly many things need "changing"!)

 

I have a large Durite relay that I will likely use as it has bolt on connectors rather than spade type, is double the amperage and they are readily available (I seem to recall that the factory fitted one by Vetus has a strange pin configuration?) I agree about 6mm sq should be OK as it is a very short run.

If you go to the HC Cargo website download section you will find two very useful documents.

The "workshop consumables and tools" has relays, and clearly marks their mini relays as type A or B i.e. the No 30 & 86 terminals are transposed.

The strange one may be the 70amp high performance mini relay, it has 2 x 6.3 mm spades and 2 x 9 mm spades.

The "electrical parts and engine management" is also worth a look.

They do list some Mitsubishi glow plugs, but use the "MD" prefixed series of part numbers - sorry I don't have the part number in that format.

There is also an online version of the Durite catalogue, with some useful stuff.

WARNING: This is serious parts porn!!!

Edited June 12, 2014 by Eeyore

[Guest]

If you go to the HC Cargo website download section you will find two very useful documents.

The "workshop consumables and tools" has relays, and clearly marks their mini relays as type A or B i.e. the No 30 & 86 terminals are transposed.

The strange one may be the 70amp high performance mini relay, it has 2 x 6.3 mm spades and 2 x 9 mm spades.

The "electrical parts and engine management" is also worth a look.

They do list some Mitsubishi glow plugs, but use the "MD" prefixed series of part numbers - sorry I don't have the part number in that format.

There is also an online version of the Durite catalogue, with some useful stuff.

WARNING: This is serious parts porn!!!

Great will have a look at the websites

[kevinl]

Thanks for all advice/suggestions. I got my trusty multi meter out this morning, borrowed the battery out of the smoke alarm and did some tests.

Just take the glow plug out use a set of jump leads to connect it to one of the batteries, stick your finger on the internal end of the glow plug, connect it up and if your finger's still there after 5-10 seconds it's working or give it 10 seconds and if you can light a fag off it no probs.

K

[Guest]

Just take the glow plug out use a set of jump leads to connect it to one of the batteries, stick your finger on the internal end of the glow plug, connect it up and if your finger's still there after 5-10 seconds it's working or give it 10 seconds and if you can light a fag off it no probs.

K

Makes sense, and the sort of test I approve of . I suppose an ammeter is another good bet when the plugs are still in, but mine is at home.

[Guest]

Well, I struggled on, giving longer preheat and filled the nearly empty tank at Streethey a day or three ago. Starting is perfectly normal again now, without touching glow plugs. Now I think back, it was from the previous fill up that problems started. Hindsight is a wonderful thing Never realised that a batch of diesel can cause problems starting. Why might this be?

[Eeyore]

Well, I struggled on, giving longer preheat and filled the nearly empty tank at Streethey a day or three ago. Starting is perfectly normal again now, without touching glow plugs. Now I think back, it was from the previous fill up that problems started. Hindsight is a wonderful thing Never realised that a batch of diesel can cause problems starting. Why might this be?

Just the usual suspects, water contamination and degradation due to excessive storage time. Try googling for "shelf life of diesel fuel" ; lots of varying and confusing info out there.

Best not worry too much, just check the filters and carry on cruising :-)

[Guest]

Just the usual suspects, water contamination and degradation due to excessive storage time. Try googling for "shelf life of diesel fuel" ; lots of varying and confusing info out there.

Best not worry too much, just check the filters and carry on cruising :-)

Cheers I have drained the filters etc and all is well. Continues to start really well again. I suspect "old diesel" might be a strong possibility. Put loads of hours on it these past few weeks so should have flushed most of the rubbish stuff out.