My Kelvin J parts

[David]

Hi all

As promised some time ago I now have time to deal with getting the stuff I put together for the long term when we had MisterB into the hands of someone who can use them or put them by for the future.

I will next week post on the for sale section, but as a heads up there are 3 liners Seaward old new stock Kelvin not imports, 3sets valve guides Seaward stock, refurbished push rods (new solid drawn 9/16 tube ends re-soldiered on) spare lengths of tube, 3 head gaskets (from Nigel aka BEngo), injector pump labelled new when I outbid I think Anlwick, brass tube gismo which fits onto the pump, original diesel filter the bag type, a kit for converting the crank water pump drive to chain drive inc stainless chain, links half links several cogs to fit a pump to give different speed ratio, and a 2mt length of 2inch wet exhaust hose unused (from mastervolt originally left over from the generator.

 

 

 

That's all the pics I have for now I will sort more out for the sale post and for anyone who wants to contact me, incidentally I have to inform all that the liners and guides cost north of £1000 so I am hoping for sensible offers when I list everything plus what's here

David

edited to make sense

Edited May 30, 2014 by David

[Peter & Maureen H]

Hi David, I'd be interested in the head shims (gaskets). Have sent you a PM. What thickness are they please?

Edited May 30, 2014 by Peter & Maureen H

[BEngo]

They are the same thickness as the standard Kelvin item. If David's gaskets are not suitable PM me and I can let you have the CAD file which will enable a laser or water jet cutting firm to make them any thickness you want, and a laser cutting contact.

 

N

[David]

Hi Peter/ Maureen

I hope to let them go as one lot, so will have to wait to see how it goes, thanks to Nigel for your reply too, as he says he can help if you want, off hand I don't recall what Nigel had them made to, I will dig out the caliper at some point in case this is asked again (unless Nigel posts the thickness !).

david

[BEngo]

I shall have to go and find my spares, and my micrometer!

 

N

I shall have to go and find my spares, and my micrometer!

 

N

 

No I didn't- I looked at the drawing for the thickness - 0.050 in.

 

N

[NorthwichTrader]

Does anyone have, or know of, the cups that sit in the head to centre the main studs? I need the full set for a J3! Only just realised mine doesn't have any!

[BEngo]

You are looking for Cylinder Head bushes I think. The parts manual is not very clear. There are 4 to a cylinder. Someone with a small lathe could soon make you a set- the originals are meehanite and you can buy that as cored sticks from College Engineering Supply. Try your local Model Engineering club for someone who might make them for beer coupongs.

 

I don't have any spare ones, but let me know if you want me to measure one up.

 

N

[NorthwichTrader]

You are looking for Cylinder Head bushes I think. The parts manual is not very clear. There are 4 to a cylinder. Someone with a small lathe could soon make you a set- the originals are meehanite and you can buy that as cored sticks from College Engineering Supply. Try your local Model Engineering club for someone who might make them for beer coupongs.

 

I don't have any spare ones, but let me know if you want me to measure one up.

 

N

Many thanks, BEngo! I somehow got lucky and lined up the exhaust after bolting down all the heads without them insitu ! They weren't present with the engine, and I suspected nothing!

Any thoughts on risks of running it until I get them fitted?

[BEngo]

The washers and their seats are only there to accommodate unavoidable movement of the 4 cores for the stud holes during casting. The holes are cored (cast-in) rather than drilled afterwards because it's easier than drilling long stud- holes and getting them to come out straight and in in the right place at both ends.

 

You were very lucky to get away with fitting the exhaust after bolting the heads down hard. You should always, always, always fit and tighten the exhaust (onto studs, not bolts- Mr Whittle's advice is wrong here) before tightening the heads down. That way there is no stress on the manifold to crack it, and good manifolds are rarer than heads! I would slacken off all the head bolts to allow the manifold to pull the heads into natural alignment and then re-tighten them. I certainly would not run it until having done that. After doing that, if it runs OK and nothing is leaking/blowing you could leave it. Many engines will have suffered worse.

 

The reason for using studs for the exhaust is that the wear is then replaceable items (the nut (mainly) and the stud) rather than on the thread in the head which can only be enlarged a couple of times, in the process making the manifold poorly compatible with a 'standard' head unless special studs are made.. The use of BSF threads in cast iron on a Kelvin makes the wear quicker.

 

N

[Peter & Maureen H]

They are the same thickness as the standard Kelvin item. If David's gaskets are not suitable PM me and I can let you have the CAD file which will enable a laser or water jet cutting firm to make them any thickness you want, and a laser cutting contact.

 

N

Only asked because at least one of my head shims is 52 thou, and I've seen them at 46 and 50. I've heard it suggested that they were matched up to get a good alignment across the top of the heads, and /or fine tune the compression ratio or valve / piston clearance, so may well have been different on each engine and each pot of a multiple cylinder engine.

 

Peter

Edited June 26, 2014 by Peter & Maureen H

[Peter & Maureen H]

You are looking for Cylinder Head bushes I think. The parts manual is not very clear. There are 4 to a cylinder. Someone with a small lathe could soon make you a set- the originals are meehanite and you can buy that as cored sticks from College Engineering Supply. Try your local Model Engineering club for someone who might make them for beer coupongs.

 

I don't have any spare ones, but let me know if you want me to measure one up.

 

N

Isn't Meehanite a type of cast iron? That seems to me to be an odd material from which to make a small section highly stressed item, although it is in compression and may be quite ductile I suppose. Not that I actually know anything, just asking' !

 

P.

[BEngo]

Indeed, cast iron is a strange choice for a washer, but as you accurately say it's in compression and it sits in a fairly tightly tolerance hole which supports it on the outside. It is also not there to act as a washer- it's there to provide a fairly accurate location for the head stud. I only discovered they were cast when I broke one- it snapped in two without bending so I got my materials lab friend to have a quick look at it and tell me what it was made of.

 

I don't believe the head joints were available to all in anything other than one nominal thickness. I have a copy of Mr Black's factory spares dept parts book, with much useful annotation by him, and this makes no mention of various thicknesses. I also have some new original gaskets, as supplied to me in 1986, which I measured with my micrometer, "calibrated" occasionally against my uncalibrated for years slip gauges, before producing the gasket drawing. My ex-factory ones are definitely 0.050" thick.

 

 

I dare say the production thickness tolerance was quite high, though I don't have a factory drawing to confirm this, because 'The Book' ( English Instruction Book Number 18) suggests that you should line the pistons up with the top of the cylinder and adjust the number/thickness of the joints at the base of the cylinder to achieve this. I also expect that Mr Bergius designed the head joint to be stamped or punched out of sheet, because that was his only realistic option, laser and water-jet cutters not having been invented at the time. Grinding to thickness would also have been very expensive.

 

 

That said, adjusting the cylinder joint and then tightening everything up to see what the effect was would be a major PITA, especially since the piston and con-rod need to be properly in place so it would be a lot easier to make some 'specials' and it entirely possible that either the Kelvin Agents or the factory's overhaul team had this done and then selectively assembled things. Selective assembly was a common practice in the motor industry until pretty recently- and I think it still is if you want to blueprint a motorsport production engine to the most advantageous but still homologated dimensions.

 

 

N