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Another new way to lose your Licence


Tony Dunkley
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The thing is this boating pattern is pretty common for a massive number of boaters who do have a home mooring. The last two marinas we moored in was full of boaters who pooled out on a Friday night after work and then pooled back on Sunday afternoon. All perfectly within the rules as far as I am concerned and something that is replicated right across the entire system.

 

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Yes, it's called "enjoyment", I think. Perhaps CART are thinking of banning that?

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It would appear from what he says in NBW that things have gone beyond rumour for him personally.

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php/news-flash/6791-do-cc-rules-apply-to-all

They refuse to renew your licence then instigate the section 8 process for having an unlicensed boat.

 

So it is as we thought then, he has a mooring but he is shuffling about on a different part of the system, well as I don't engage in that sort of activity I definitely have nowt to fear.

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It appears, reading between the lines, that the OP has been spending (much?) longer at his one preferred spot than his home mooring. I'm still unclear as to what rules he's really breaking provided he doesn't stay for more than 14 days at a time.

 

Tim

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Well if it is anything like those without a home mooring you get 3 chances

 

1. A pre cc1 - swarming

2. A cc1 - to yell you

 

They sound a frightening bunch, swarming around boats and yelling at their owners. Anyone would think they ran the waterways.

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Well if it is anything like those without a home mooring you get 3 chances

 

1. A pre cc1 - swarming to say you are breaking the rules

2. A cc1 - to yell you that your boat is now being watched closely

3. A cc2 to tell you next time you will lose your licence

4. A cc3 - licence taken away and to late past the point of no return

 

Problem is most boaters do not seem to worry until it is to late instead of changing their behaviour at the pre cc1 stage

 

 

 

Ah now that seems a little more reasonable.

 

Does the 'pre cc1' expire? Or does it remain on file for as long as I own the boat? Or as long as I remain a customer?

 

Just wondering if I get a 'pre cc1' on one boat, then do I jump straight to a cc1 for a first offence with the other boat...

 

 

 

MtB

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Can they actually refuse to issue a licence under these circumstances...or any for that matter?

I will exaggerate here but they can do what they like until someone goes to court and they lose, but CRT normally only go to court if they think they will win.
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'Enforcement' puzzles me deeply.

 

Let's assume I inadvertently contravene this new 'rule' Tony Dunkley (from NBW it seems, known here colloquially as 'The Dark Side') tells us about and I 'get done' for it. What happens next?

 

A) Do I get fined by CRT? Or...

cool.png Do I have to appear in Court and get fined by the magistrates? Or...

C) Something else?

 

Can someone explain please?

 

Same question regarding overstaying. What if I stay 15 days on a countryside towpath spot and 'get done' for it? And how would I know I'm 'getting done' for it?

 

What does 'getting done' mean, exactly?

 

 

Many thanks.

 

MtB

 

Call me old fashioned, but I'd recommend keel hauling.

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Ok I will bite,

 

What evidence do you have to support this assertion?

 

Boat names, dates/times places etc etc

Plenty -- written and verbal, with a big proportion from boat owners reluctant have their names published for fear of provoking C&RT to even greater excesses.

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It appears, reading between the lines, that the OP has been spending (much?) longer at his one preferred spot than his home mooring. I'm still unclear as to what rules he's really breaking provided he doesn't stay for more than 14 days at a time.

 

Tim

I read the NBW article exactly like that, the trouble is he has manipulated it into meaning something else in his original post in this thread.

 

It has been said before CRT are taking an interest in people who have a home mooring but shuffle about a popular part of the system without ever actually returning to the 'mooring' they have.

 

It is debatable I agree as to how legitimate this all is but personally I see it as no threat to the type of boaters he implied it could be aimed at in his original post.

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Ah now that seems a little more reasonable.

 

Does the 'pre cc1' expire? Or does it remain on file for as long as I own the boat? Or as long as I remain a customer?

 

Just wondering if I get a 'pre cc1' on one boat, then do I jump straight to a cc1 for a first offence with the other boat...

 

 

 

MtB

Good question I think if you are a good boy for about 3 years it expires but I know a lot of boaters who have reacted at pre cc1 explained there circumstances to CRT and had it taken away. The problem is people do not react. The pre cc1 gives you all the contact details at CRT so you can talk to them if you feel you have been wronged such as ill health, broken engine etc
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Plenty -- written and verbal, with a big proportion from boat owners reluctant have their names published for fear of provoking C&RT to even greater excesses.

Yes I should really have expected that......

 

You are not talking the same thing though.

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The thing is this boating pattern is pretty common for a massive number of boaters who do have a home mooring. The last two marinas we moored in was full of boaters who pooled out on a Friday night after work and then pooled back on Sunday afternoon. All perfectly within the rules as far as I am concerned and something that is replicated right across the entire system.

 

When you can only spend two nights at a time and you only have two directions you can travel, right or left out of the marina entrance it's all that can be reasonably expected.

 

CRT would make themselves a laughing stock if they tried to enforce such a requirement.

 

Exactly! Which is what made me originally question if this guy is a troll. This "new rule", or whatever it's supposed to be, would disrupt a huge percentage of the boating public. It's crazy to think CRT would actually try something like this.

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Unless CRT log the location of boats on a daily basis they can never tell whether a boat has been in the same location continuously or has visited the same mooring on two separate days, maybe many weeks apart.

 

CC'ers have the same potential problem, after all the rules are the same for everyone. Maybe if we informed CRT of our movements in a situation like that they might leave us alone...just saw a pig flying...

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Blimey. Even for a first offence?

 

 

No I was just stating the ultimate sanction.

 

As Cotswoldsman says it can be a long drawn out process.

after all the rules are the same for everyone.

No they're not.

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So it is as we thought then, he has a mooring but he is shuffling about on a different part of the system, well as I don't engage in that sort of activity I definitely have nowt to fear.

You might call it "shuffling about" but how about calling it using your boat on every day for which your 365 day Licence runs? Just to clear up your incorrect assumptions, my boat use is local to my mooring.

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If you are paying for a mooring , even from CRT, which is a long way from the area you are cruising CRT can now decide that you have in effect a ghost mooring - and therefore presumably not a "home mooring" for the purpose of the act. Even so i assume it then comes down to whether you are " bona fide" navigating before any enforcement action starts.

 

I can understand the desire to clamp down on unscrupulous marina/land owners who rent the same mooring out to several owners but this latest interpretation is perhaps harder to defend.

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There is a couple at the marina here, who arrive most every Friday evening (on occasion it's Saturday morning), jump on board and then return late Sunday afternoon or early evening.

 

"apparently" they head up the GU to their favorite tow path mooring spot, spend a night or two and then come back to the marina and head back to their jobs and bricks & mortar till the following weekend.

 

I have no idea if where they moor up is 48 hour / 14 day or if it's even marked.

 

Is this wrong in CRT eyes? If it is, I don't understand why.

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I thought once out of a marina or home mooring they were the same rules...

 

Nope.

 

If you have a 'marina or a home mooring' you can shuffle about from A to B and back again to your heart's content provided you observe the time limits applying to any particular mooring you stay on.

 

If you have no home mooring, you cannot go from A to B and back again, you must move on to a series of new 'places' i.e. A to B to C to D etc.

 

 

MtB

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Nope.

 

If you have a 'marina or a home mooring' you can shuffle about from A to B and back again to your heart's content provided you observe the time limits applying to any particular mooring you stay on.

 

If you have no home mooring, you cannot go from A to B and back again, you must move on to a series of new 'places' i.e. A to B to C to D etc.

 

 

MtB

Not strictly correct as I remember the rules covering the new section of K&A that is now subject to the new cruising rules but as I am still on phone can not check
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Not strictly correct as I remember the rules covering the new section of K&A that is now subject to the new cruising rules but as I am still on phone can not check

 

What I said is broadly correct though, do you not agree?

 

There will always be some isolated exceptions to any post outlining a rule in broad terms.

 

 

MtB

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Exactly! Which is what made me originally question if this guy is a troll. This "new rule", or whatever it's supposed to be, would disrupt a huge percentage of the boating public. It's crazy to think CRT would actually try something like this.

They won't he is more of a scaremonger than a troll.

There is a couple at the marina here, who arrive most every Friday evening (on occasion it's Saturday morning), jump on board and then return late Sunday afternoon or early evening.

 

"apparently" they head up the GU to their favorite tow path mooring spot, spend a night or two and then come back to the marina and head back to their jobs and bricks & mortar till the following weekend.

 

I have no idea if where they moor up is 48 hour / 14 day or if it's even marked.

 

Is this wrong in CRT eyes? If it is, I don't understand why.

That scenario is not wrong in CRT's eyes.

 

The original poster is merely scaremongering on the back of a different scenario.

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