Taylor's 079D Diesel Heater installation

[BlueStringPudding]

Some of you might remember that I bought a Taylor's 079D heater last winter. Well it's taken me nearly a year to clear the cabin, build the fire surround and buy the final bits and pieces for it to be installed.

 

Anyway in still umming and ahing about the fuel tank installation. I have the 079d gravity fed diesel heater as shown here:

 

However due to the fact I've managed to bag a bargain on a few of the parts I've actually ended up with this kerosene fuel tank instead:

 

 

One of the good things about this one is the pump, as the fitting instructions for the diesel heater suggest that such a pump to build a little pressure can help even with gravity fed diesel systems. The tank also has a sight glass for fuel level

 

The tank will be installed inside the boat high up. I have a choice of getting the local boat yard to run a deck fitting on the roof through to the tank just below the ceiling, a diesel filler with a breather in it. That way the tank can be filled from outside however it won't be possible to see the sight glass (or use the pump but that was a bonus anyway) so I would need a way to prevent spillages down the paintwork of the boat. But at least any spillages would happen outside.

 

Alternatively I don't connect the tank to the outside at all. Instead I fill it from inside the boat like a day tank (which is how they're intended to work on yachts) probably via a little hand pump where I can see the tank's sight glass so am less likely to have a spillage. However there is a risk and I don't know what if any overflow facility the tank has or how to acquire/fit one if needed.

 

Lastly, of course want to be sure I don't compromise any BSS rules with the installation. And as good as my local boatyard is they have no experience of this sort of gravity fed heater. So I thought I'd plan the tank installation here in the forum before taking the idea to them to do the fitting itself

 

Any thoughts on my two alternatives for the fuel tank installation? Happy to hear other ways of doing it too

 

Thanks.

Edited November 17, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[Timleech]

There's no issue with small tanks like that being filled within the boat, as I understand it, for the BSS. We have a Taylors cooker with a similar tank, just fill it with a funnel from a 5l container, I can manage that without any spillage. Mind you, if your tank is high up then filling it manually will be more awkward.

 

Tim

[BlueStringPudding]

That's comforting to know. Thanks, Tim.

Does your tank have any connection to outside the boat such as a breather vent? And does it have any sort of overspill protection/overflow contraption?

[BlueStringPudding]

And same question to anyone who has installed some sort of day tank or diesel heater with its own tank

 

Thanks.

[Batavia]

We have installed these stoves in our 3 boats over the past 25 years and each installation has been an improvement on the previous one (there are a few occasions when one learns from experience). In each case, the stove has been our principal means of heating the boat, so that in cold weather one is using 4-5 litres of diesel per day. We have found them to be highly reliable (there is virtually nothing to go wrong) but they are not as controllable as sotves fitted with regulators.

 

The one weak point in the design is the needle valve used to regulate the flow. Even with the "better" (a relative term) right-angle needle valve, the stove goes from barely alight to roaring inferno with a a minute adjustment of the valve. I have been meaning to replace the valve with a decent one (I found a good Swagelok one) for years.

 

In the first one, we installed the cylindrical type tank outside the boat in the bow and filled it from cans using a funnel. This worked, but the logistics of keeping cans filled was a pain and the tank was not really high enough above the needle valve to give consistent flow control. Overfill protection was achieved by looking down into the filling hole.

 

If the sight glass on the cylindrical tank is as I remember it, it is just a length of plastic tubing between two compression fittings and I suspect that it would be necessary to fit isolation valves for it to meet the BSS requirements.

 

I would avoid trying to pressurise the tank for a drip feed stove, as the pressure will reduce as the tank empties (dramatically, if you pressurise ot when the tank is nearly full and there is little air in the tank).

 

The next time round we installed a day tank, just for the stove, in the back cabin. This is filled by a rotary hand pump. The vent is inside the cabin (it has passed the BSS several times, which seems fine to me as it is impossible to get an explosive atmosphere at normal temperatures with liquid diesel). The filling line enters the top of the tank and goes about 1" down into the tank. When filling the tank you can here the fuel splosh into the tank as you pump it in until the end of the filling pipe is covered, when all goes quiet. This is the overfill protection.

 

For either of the above schemes, it would have been possible to fit a tee to the filling/vent connection and to pipe the branch back into the main tank, to provide overfill protection. The straight connection of the tee would then be extended upwards a bit, to ensure that the liquid goes down the branch and not out the top. Fitting a sight glass in the overfill line shows when the tank is full.

 

In the final installation, the stove is fed from the day tank which also supplies the engine. the tank has an integral 1.5" overflow pipe back to the main tank, its vent is connected into the main tank vent pipework, it has decent water draw-off connection, an isolated sight glass and the fuel is taken from about 2" above the bottom of the tank. The only thing missing is a sight glass in the overflow pipe, which I might fit in due course.

 

In both the second and third installations we installed a standard CAV filter in the stove line.

 

If you don't have one, getting an H cowl for the chimney is worth it, as it reduces the frequency of "blowback" in high winds, when the stove goes pop and the boat fills with diesel fumes.

 

If you would like to discuss things further, PM me and I will give you my phone number.

 

Good luck.

 

Chris G

[BlueStringPudding]

Thanks Chris. What a detailed answer! Just what i needed.

 

Sounds like your first installation is nearest to what mine will be like. I'm planning on installing a fuel cut off valve on the supply pipe from the tank to the stove as close as possible to the tank itself. Is that what you meant or did you mean something specific to the sight glass tube/overfill protection?

 

I have the standard cowl chimney from the photo above at the moment but will keep an eye out for the H shaped one, thanks for the tip.

 

 

When you say "we installed" did you do it yourself or do you have a tame local mechanical bod? I'd rather pay someone who knows these contraptions who's not too far from my neck of the woods to install it than have my local yard tinker till they work it out.

Edited November 18, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[Batavia]

Thanks Chris. What a detailed answer! Just what i needed.

 

Sounds like your first installation is nearest to what mine will be like. I'm planning on installing a fuel cut off valve on the supply pipe from the tank to the stove as close as possible to the tank itself. Is that what you meant or did you mean something specific to the sight glass tube/overfill protection?

 

When you say "we installed" did you do it yourself or do you have a tame local mechanical bod? I'd rather pay someone who knows these contraptions who's not too far from my neck of the woods to install it than have my local yard tinker till they work it out.

 

The isolation valve I mentioned was one just to isolate the piece of plastic tubing which acts as the sight glass from the tank - so that in the event of a fire, the fuel will not pour from the tank through the having-melted pipe. I think that there is something in the BSS about sight glasses.

 

A cut-off valve close to the tank (away from the stove) would be a good idea.

 

We did all the installations ourselves, and I don't know of any local companies with experience of these stoves (I think that very few are installed on narrowboats).

 

The basic tank installation should be much the same as for other diesel stoves. Who is your local yard? Depending on location (and who they are) , I might be able to provide some helpful hints.

 

Chris G

[J R ALSOP]

Come on Chris, give Daphne a mention. I hope the level kept coming up, as i see another north bound came up as i was sampling a pint of London Pride.

[BlueStringPudding]

 

The isolation valve I mentioned was one just to isolate the piece of plastic tubing which acts as the sight glass from the tank - so that in the event of a fire, the fuel will not pour from the tank through the having-melted pipe. I think that there is something in the BSS about sight glasses.

 

A cut-off valve close to the tank (away from the stove) would be a good idea.

 

We did all the installations ourselves, and I don't know of any local companies with experience of these stoves (I think that very few are installed on narrowboats).

 

The basic tank installation should be much the same as for other diesel stoves. Who is your local yard? Depending on location (and who they are) , I might be able to provide some helpful hints.

 

Chris G

 

I'm re-reading the BSS about it now. It says:

 

Glass or plastic tube or strip-type fuel gauges must be: n protected against physical damage; and, n closely coupled (connected) to the tank; and, n fitted with self-closing valves at top and bottom (note that the self-closing valve at the top is not required if the gauge connection is made to the top of the tank); and, n complete and free of leaks and other signs of damage.

 

How would I know if this contains self closing valves? And what can I do about it if it doesn't? Add something manual?

 

 

Edited November 18, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[Captain Fizz]

That has no valves, it is just an open sight tube.

It will be tricky to fit valves without taking up most of the tube length and so defeating the object.

If you must use that tank, it ay be easier to blank off the site tube and just adopt a regime of regular filling.

I used to just top my heater up morning and evening and that seemed to work out ok.

As has been mentioned up thread, the needle valve is pretty delicate so once I hade a good setting, I left it alone.

[BlueStringPudding]

That has no valves, it is just an open sight tube.

It will be tricky to fit valves without taking up most of the tube length and so defeating the object.

If you must use that tank, it ay be easier to blank off the site tube and just adopt a regime of regular filling.

I used to just top my heater up morning and evening and that seemed to work out ok.

As has been mentioned up thread, the needle valve is pretty delicate so once I hade a good setting, I left it alone.

 

Ah - okay. As long as a " regime of regular filling" is enough to dissuade the BSS dude that the risk of overfilling inside the boat is minimal

[Batavia]

Come on Chris, give Daphne a mention. I hope the level kept coming up, as i see another north bound came up as i was sampling a pint of London Pride.

OK, credit to Daphne.

 

The people going North kindly left all the top gates open - so another trip to the lock was required!

 

Chris G

[BlueStringPudding]

Incidentally, if anyone else fancies buying a Taylors heater I noticed this one for sale on eBay and the price hasn't risen all that high yet. Could turn out to be a bargain for someone.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Taylors-Diesel-Cabin-Boat-heater-/181258083966?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item2a33d2de7e

 

[BlueStringPudding]

Just downloaded the BSS Examination Checking Procedures January 2013 pdf and read the following:

 

Applicability – self-closing valves are not required on sight gauge arrangements on day tanks having a maximum capacity of up to 27 litres

 

I'm not great at judging volume but I'm sure my little plump tank is under 27 litres. Woohoo!

 

All I need to decide now is whether to invest in an overpriced Taylor's diesel filler cap with little breather hole to replace the pump attachment on mine - which can't have a breather in it otherwise it'd never hold pressure.

[Batavia]

Just downloaded the BSS Examination Checking Procedures January 2013 pdf and read the following:

 

Applicability – self-closing valves are not required on sight gauge arrangements on day tanks having a maximum capacity of up to 27 litres

 

I'm not great at judging volume but I'm sure my little plump tank is under 27 litres. Woohoo!

 

All I need to decide now is whether to invest in an overpriced Taylor's diesel filler cap with little breather hole to replace the pump attachment on mine - which can't have a breather in it otherwise it'd never hold pressure.

Apologies for raising alarm and despondency about the need for valves on sight glasses - I had not come across that exemption before. But why 27 litres - where did that figure come from?

 

Can't you just remove parts of the pump so that the existing cap does not make a complete seal?

 

I suppose that it it too much to hope that Taylor's use a standard thread (e.g. BSP) on their tank nozzle, thereby allowing you to buy a cheap brass cap and drill a small hole in it?

 

Chris G

[BlueStringPudding]

Apologies for raising alarm and despondency about the need for valves on sight glasses - I had not come across that exemption before. But why 27 litres - where did that figure come from?

 

Can't you just remove parts of the pump so that the existing cap does not make a complete seal?

 

I suppose that it it too much to hope that Taylor's use a standard thread (e.g. BSP) on their tank nozzle, thereby allowing you to buy a cheap brass cap and drill a small hole in it?

 

Chris G

 

Excellent thinking. If I dismantle the pump I end up with this little chimney on top of the tank. If that hole isn't too big to be considered just a breather (it's maybe 3mm across) then would that work?

 

Failing that I can unscrew the little pressure gauge and see if I can find a replacement filler cap to fit in its place.(BSP thread or not )

 

 

 

Here's a bit more BSS:

 

Applicability – the small hole in the filler cap as provided by the original engine or fuel tank manufacturer, on tanks of no more than 27 litres capacity, is deemed to meet this requirement. Examples are those found on Stuart Turner petrol tanks, Yanmar engine close-coupled tanks or diesel tanks supplying appliances.

I'm conscious this doesn't technically constitute the filler cap provided by the original fuel tank manufacturer though. There are three sections of the BSS that state the "small hole in the filler cap as provided by..." so if I get this bit wrong I could fail on three bits of BSS!

Edited November 19, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[BlueStringPudding]

My genuine Taylor's parts arrived today (ordered before I knew I might need a filler cap, of course!) Just needed little bits so far like gaskets and the copper pipe with coupling. Everything else I've managed to get on the cheap either second hand or a compatible other brand.

[BlueStringPudding]

.

 

Nearly there with the installation. All the diesel tank and pipework is behind in the wardrobe. I just need two 3/16 compression fittings (which sods law decrees I cant get locally so I've ordered off Ebay) and someone adept with dangerous cutting and drilling type stuff to cut the hole in the roof and install the deck fitting for the flue.

Edited December 15, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[markmarine]

I recently pulled out a panel under a bench in my boat to hopefully gain better access to the front of the engine (stupidly I thought this might be so!) In the void I found a brass fronted Taylors heater with a serial number plate also in Brass on the front. I had no idea how they work, however, following instructions online I rigged up what I assume was the original tank, beautifully made from stainless and found some 3/16 tube. After some tweaking, the stove settled down and produced a steady heat, sometimes making the heater case glow red. Very efficient, economical throwback to the 40's and I'm quite sorry I already fitted a woodburner, otherwise i would have used this one. Looking at the current spares situation, the parts seem the same as for my unit.

I do have to admit that the first 2 attempts to light the stove resulted in not having to shave for 2 weeks and generous application of burnt cork smudges to immitate my missing eyebrows...! I guess U used too much meths...

[BlueStringPudding]

How lovely! (To find a secret heater, not taking your eyebrows off!)

 

I'm intrigued that the heater case glowed red - I've not noticed mine do that, although maybe the inner one does under the shiny outer casing and I've never noticed it because I close the outer door once lit. Certainly the little sticky up stand inside the heating chamber glows red, that's my cue to start the diesel drip.

Edited March 22, 2015 by BlueStringPudding