Our Home Aboard

[slowcoach]

well if i can convince my wife , would a boat builder build a narrowboat or wide beam with 2 seperate bedrooms 1 double and1 single or another double as there is me, my wife and son, but if my wife was to live on a boat she would want room!!!, also what are the exact cost you would be paying to run and live aboard, do you pay council tax what taxes, how much does diesel work out, living costs basically also what type of boat would suit us best as i say there are only 3 of us and our dog but my wife would want space so preferably widebeam maybe more than a narrowboat i quite like the dutch barges built by sea otter etc , any suggestions, would be gratefully receied, also just thought it wouldnt need to be a used boat it could be a brand new one exactly to my specifications coud it, would the builders just do what i want them to do, everyting i want, this house is worth about £90,000 i would suspect which would get me a nice narrowboat but not a widebeam, any solutions sorry for speeling mistakes but i am typing this quick as i need the loo

 

 

many thanks

 

Richard

[Yoda]

well if i can convince my wife , would a boat builder build a narrowboat or wide beam with 2 seperate bedrooms 1 double and1 single or another double as there is me, my wife and son, but if my wife was to live on a boat she would want room!!!, also what are the exact cost you would be paying to run and live aboard, do you pay council tax what taxes, how much does diesel work out, living costs basically also what type of boat would suit us best as i say there are only 3 of us and our dog but my wife would want space so preferably widebeam maybe more than a narrowboat i quite like the dutch barges built by sea otter etc , any suggestions, would be gratefully receied, also just thought it wouldnt need to be a used boat it could be a brand new one exactly to my specifications coud it, would the builders just do what i want them to do, everyting i want, this house is worth about £90,000 i would suspect which would get me a nice narrowboat but not a widebeam, any solutions sorry for speeling mistakes but i am typing this quick as i need the loo

many thanks

 

Richard

 

Don't want much do you. I hope that you made it to the head. I think the best way to answer your questions is offer a question. That is what do you want to do with your boat?

 

If you just want to live on it and you have a mooring on a wide canal then a wide beam boat could be your answer. If you have only a narrow canal then a narrow boat is the only answer. To be able to cruise around most of the system you will need a narrow boat but if you stick to rivers and estuary boating you can use a widebeam.

 

Both types are made by boat builders and are available new and pre-owned on places like Apollo Duck.

 

Enough for now!!!

[slowcoach]

the canal where we are is fairly wide but does get narrow in some places but always wide than 12 foot, so either would be preferbale could afford a narrowboat easier as it would be less than the house but a widebeam may be more than the house, but there is more room in a widebeam if we could have a narrowboat with seperate bedrooms then that would be brill w would do mostly canal crusing budget of around £65,000

[Yoda]

the canal where we are is fairly wide but does get narrow in some places but always wide than 12 foot, so either would be preferbale could afford a narrowboat easier as it would be less than the house but a widebeam may be more than the house, but there is more room in a widebeam if we could have a narrowboat with seperate bedrooms then that would be brill w would do mostly canal crusing budget of around £65,000

 

You will pay something like 40k upwards for a narrow boat and 90k upwards for a widebeam. Secondhand prices vary with the quality and fitout. Most boats have two bedrooms and bunks as well, you have to buy that or specify that for a new build. Boat builders vary, here is one www.ledgardbridge.com

 

You have to remember that the sun shines in the summer but the winter is long. Are you sure you know what you are getting into?

[bottle]

Hi Richard

 

Just to answer one thing first it is not the width of the canal that limits the width of the boat that can use it, it is the width of the locks.

 

'Narrow' canals have locks of about seven feet wide but the canal could be fourteen or more to allow boats to pass in opposite directions.

 

'Broad' canals have locks wider than seven feet usually fourteen (there are some variations)

 

Running costs have been discussed on here many times and I believe the consensus is to run a liveaboard will cost the same or even more than a house.

 

If there are going to be three of you on board then may I suggest a narrow boat of about sixty feet long will be minimum, a broad beam could be shorter.

 

You say that your house is worth approximately £90,000 unless you have some savings it is doubtful that you would get a new bespoke boat for that. I am sure some one will know different

 

Boats that are built to a 'standard' design rarely have two bedrooms it is usually one double and a dinette conversion. Again some one will know different

 

Please don't let this dissuade you from getting your own boat, just do a lot more research and have a look through this forum and use the search facility to look for key words

 

Also said here many times there is no such thing as a silly question, if you cannot find the answer you need do come back and ask.

[wrigglefingers]

Hello Richard,

 

thank you for your PM - I'll send you my spreadsheet when I 've found again after a number of laptop crashes, I've not caught up on restoring all of my files yet.

 

In short, I can confirm bottle's opinion that we've found living on a boat to be as expensive as living in house even without mortgage payments (but that depends on the size of your mortgage!). I researched this very thoroughly before we moved onboard and although I haven't been stymied by any additional costs I have blown the amount I set aside for maintenance by a now considerable margin, due to a number of equipment failures. You should be thoroughly realistic about why you want to move aboard a boat and reducing your living costs should not the principal one because I don't think that you will find you make a significant reduction.

 

If however, you have decided that you love being on the water, doing random bits of urgent DIY, scratching your head over assorted logistic problems, like emptying your loo, getting filthy when sorting out the fire, and getting friendlier with most of humanity, but would like to be more chilled out than 95% of them, then the watery life offers unparallelled advantages. We love it (although I'm not sure whether it's because of, or in spite of all the problems so far) and are totally convinced that we made the right decision.

 

Roughly speaking, we spend about £120 per month on coal, electricity and gas, our mooring fees (about £200/month), £80/month on licence and insurance, maintenance has averaged out at £300/month including blacking but not including the re-paint planned for next spring (£1800) plus my council tax of about £90/month. Diesel trots in at about £45/month and there are sundry other expenses such as replacement bits for the Squirrel, new burners for all the gas appliances (£137) and the expense of the fridge (£460). I've also replaced all the soft furnishings including the beds (£450 odd) and curtains (£140). I still have a storage unit because I haven't slimmed down my beloved library yet (£98/month). I still need to sort out the flooring covering because putting coir matting down on the floor is the work of an idiot and the kitchen needs refurbishing.

 

In terms of accommodation, it's possible to buy a boat with two sleeping cabins quite easily - we have a 58'er with two cabins, ample living space and a tiny loo! I doubt whether you will be able to buy a bespoke boat (wide, broad or narrow) to the budget you suggest unless you look at the second-hand market. This may well be your only chance of a residential mooring in any case. These are rarer than hen's teeth in some areas of the country. A liveaboard boat should be very different in terms of the equipment on board - if you live on the cut, how will you generate electricity? store it? keep your milk fresh? and so on. My fairly catastrophic list of equipment failures recently has reinforced the advice given to me at the outset. A liveaboard must be robust and simple so that you understand it and can work out what has gone wrong or is working correctly.

 

Do take your time, do budget ruthlessly and do look very sceptically at the boats on sale; this is a lot of money you are investing in a slightly uncertain market. You need to be aware that there is some depreciation on a brand new boat; estimated by bigger brains than mine to be in the region of 25-30%, so perhaps a newish second-hand one makes better sense.

 

Hope this helps, sorry it's not too rose-tinted but the light of cold reality makes for better decisions.

 

Regards, Jill

[slowcoach]

well there is no convinicng her what we are going to do is buy a second narrowboat, to use just for leisure purposes and my son will liveabord in a couple of years, there is boat i have been looking at it if a 38 foot narrowboat, built in 1992, puegot diesel engine, single at front front perm double in centre, what sort of price SHOULD the boat be, i am not going to disclose just yet, to see if it would be the right price when you have guessed i will tell you, also it is built by maurice hirst, is this a reputable boat builder????

 

 

 

many thanks

 

ive just worked out the costs you suggested wriggle fingers and the cost comes out at £8700 a year, are you sure???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Liam]

38 foot narrowboat, built in 1992, puegot diesel engine, single at front front perm double in centre

 

You couldn't possibly give a boat on a price with that small bit of info.

[JohnOnTheWey]

You couldn't possibly give a boat on a price with that small bit of info.

 

Oh I don't know; how about £23,950?

 

John

 

ps. Do I get a prize?

[Liam]

Well I couldn't on that info, but boat brokers usually can.

[bottle]

Hi

 

As to the price/cost of the boat mentioned, no idea, never heard of Maurice Hirst (maybe my fault) Peugeot as far as I know not used today (doesn't mean its not a good engine, who marinised it?)

 

The price of a boat is what you and the seller agree is a good price.

 

As I said and Bones re-iterated the running cost will be about the same as your house (check your bills for the last year, you may be surprised)

 

A few years ago, I think on a program called 'Waterworld' a leisure boater (not liveaboard) was asked about running costs and his answer about £5,000 a year and that was for only leisure use.

 

Your first few costs :

 

Licence. for 38' is £496.85

 

Insurance, I have no idea as do not have boat yet (not researched) Guess about £150

 

Mooring: dependant on where it is, (towpath or Marina) and where in the country.

 

Maintenance; Engine service (could do it yourself) bottom blacking (the boats not yours) approximately every two years

 

It all starts to add up very quickly

 

The last ting I wish to do is put you off but please be sure that it is a viable proposition.

[wrigglefingers]

well there is no convinicng her what we are going to do is buy a second narrowboat, to use just for leisure purposes and my son will liveabord in a couple of years, there is boat i have been looking at it if a 38 foot narrowboat, built in 1992, puegot diesel engine, single at front front perm double in centre, what sort of price SHOULD the boat be, i am not going to disclose just yet, to see if it would be the right price when you have guessed i will tell you, also it is built by maurice hirst, is this a reputable boat builder????

many thanks

 

ive just worked out the costs you suggested wriggle fingers and the cost comes out at £8700 a year, are you sure???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes - I watch my salary disappearing every month to prove it too!

 

The original figures show that I budgeted for £8519.12 and the projected cost will be around £9000 provided I have no further equipment failures. I know that Anhar has come up with similar figures. This is not a cheap option, in fact the difference on the figures between living in a house and living on a boat were remarkably close, I had no mortgage, but now I have mooring fees. My council tax for my boat is more than that for my house. The only significant difference would be if you had a large mortgage or rent, but you bought the boat for cash and lived on the cut without a mooring. BTW, marine mortgages are expensive compared to house mortgages.

 

I must admit that my daughter and I do like to be warm, keep the diesel tank filled up and are quite reliant on the Saintly Nigel to keep us going, hence the high maintenance costs, but I do work (I'm a teacher) in excess of 50 odd hours week (by choice I might add) and therefore some maintenance/emergency jobs are passed on to him because I lack the time or knowledge to do them. My boat is 13 year old budget built boat which came with a mooring. I didn't pay much for it and, as a consequence, things have gone wrong which I have or have had repaired very quickly. After all, we do live there and we now know how torrid life can be with a big backload of work (at one point, no electricity, no water, no gas, cabin bilge full of water and for one day, the squirrel out of action!). Perhaps next year the maintenance costs will be less as I'll have replaced most of Surprise's internal workings by then!

 

I think it boils back down to how keen you are to live on the water. To us, there is no finer place to be. I have always lived by and on water and Elly has been brought up on or around boats (born on the Isle of Wight, so she had no choice really). I only have to look at her beaming face as we wander across Avoncliff or Dundas aqueducts to know that we made the right choice for us, albeit a slighter tougher option in winter than many would choose.

 

I think you are making a good decision to look at a leisure boat to start. We had a GRP cruiser first time then graduated to the dizzy heights of a much loved 35' Springer which needed plating and a major refit in the mid-90s. I would estimate that if you were able to do most of the maintenance jobs yourself then it should be possible to keep her on the water for about £45/week plus consumables. In addition, you'll have the benefit of knowing that you're continuing to pay off your mortgage.

 

I couldn't hazard a guess at the potential cost of your prospective boat - for a benchmark there's a reasonable older Colecraft (38') up for offer at moment at BoA marina for 19k reduced from 22k.

 

Regards, Jill

Edited November 10, 2006 by wrigglefingers

[slowcoach]

joh on the wey you are spot on, i dont know who marinised the engine and the boat wouldnt be used for a liveabrd for at least anther 3-4 ears when my son is 19,20

 

here is the link to it

 

engine room looks a bit of amess!!!

 

http://www.alanpease.co.uk/boats/yfboat.htm

 

 

is the boat okay do you think

[JohnOnTheWey]

joh on the wey you are spot on, i dont know who marinised the engine and the boat wouldnt be used for a liveabrd for at least anther 3-4 ears when my son is 19,20

 

here is the link to it

 

engine room looks a bit of amess!!!

 

http://www.alanpease.co.uk/boats/yfboat.htm

is the boat okay do you think

 

I confess I cheated.

It's here too: http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=49841

 

Can't offer an opinion on whether it's worth it though - much more information required. Ballpark figure seems not outrageous (once you've accounted for broker fees and all that). Any hint of a recent survey?

You really need to get aboard and have a good snoop around. Best of luck and I hope all turns out OK.

 

John

[slowcoach]

i went and had a look round last weekend(saturday), and its not bad, would maybe do a few things to make it our own but the boat was snug he had lit the fire around 8am, and he had put it out at about 11am it was 2pm whe we went and it was still warm, the owner lives on it, and when he sells is going to live in s static caravan at witherensea, the viewing was not booked or arranged just knocked on his cabin hatchway and he appeared, its in the amrina where i ahd my boat andcmes with mooring whic is good as there is a 3 year waiting list for a mooring where it is, good size back and front deck only bsc till next year but he assures me it will need nothing doing if he will take £20-22 fornit then we may havea deal having another look maybe tomorow afternoon with my wife, it was me my brother andson who looked at it last week, if we buy it then we will have an extra thousand pound, to get cratch cover made, towards new tiling and cushions etc not that the boat neds them just to make it different

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Richard

[bottle]

Has been out of the water 2006 and had the bottom blacked. Safety certificate April 2007

 

 

Hi Adendri

 

Bottom blacked this year, good but proof needed, does not mean it has a good bottom.

 

safety certificate lasts for four years, so last one issued 2003. Needs new one in five months. (cost)

 

Advice, if you are interested in the boat, get an out of water survey done.

 

Will cost but may save you money in long run, if the survey comes back that it has faults, you can then decide if you are willing to carry out the repairs (costs) or walk away and save the £23,000 for another one.

 

There are lots of boats out there, don't jump at the first one.

 

Edit: you posted whilst I was typing, so some of above is irrelevant but not the survey.

Edited November 10, 2006 by bottle

[slowcoach]

the boat had a survey 3 years ago when the owner bought it, he was happy with it, the boat when he bought it was at blue water, believe me this isnt the first boat we have looked at, over the course of approox 1year 4 months we have looked at roughly 24 narrowboats at blue water marina alone, looked at one the other day at ripon. have looked at newark, lincoln etc etc , we had a survey done with our boat when we got it shouldnt have continued really as the water moisture levels were high but anyway it is sold now, but we would have a survey anyway, and it was blacked about 2 months ago as we were there when it was being done

[Carrie]

As I write this, something big may fall off the engine or a big hole appear in the hull, BUT...

life is proving a lot cheaper on the boat than in my old house. This is just my experience and I'm not tied to work so can find time to do certain things myself.

As I'm cruising, there's only the licence to pay. With all the free wood I've cut, I'm able to eke out the coal quite well and a bag is lasting me 2 weeks at the moment. I bought lots of coal at the summer price of £6.50, so that's only about £3.25/week. There is an Alde gas heating system on board, but I'm not using it and hoping I don't have to. We'll see!

No council tax to pay as I'm on the move. Electricity is generated from when I'm moving and the solar panels. There was that initial outlay of course.

I've just had the engine serviced which cost me £182 in all. I hope to learn how to do this myself in future which will mean outlay on a course.

None of the water/sewage costs of a house. I also spend less as I'm not near big shops very often - less temptation to buy stuff I don't need!

 

Of course, as I live alone on the boat (apart from visiting family & friends - they seem to bring lots of booze with them, which is a bonus!) I have less expenses than if you are a family.

 

Good luck with your plans!

[bottle]

Richard

 

If this is the boat for you then good luck, I think you do know more than seemed apparent before.

 

ps. I am known to be a pessimist but try to look on the bright side.

[slowcoach]

from our very first boat was a little djon 14 fishing boat with cuddy cabin, paid £800 painted it up and got £1000 for it 2 months later, then got a norman 20 co ownership with brother , £2000 boat was , we paid in full they were gonna pay a thousand , they had paid back £200 and they said we are gonna gcut our losses, the boat was awful 25hp evinrude outboard, £25 petrol for 10 minutes!!!!!!!!!, got rid after they had taken it out and came back and was leaking bought for £2000 sold for £1500, then bought a dawncraft 22, bought for £5500 sold for £4400 just to get rid now on search of a narrowboat particulary this one onto 4th boat in 3 years

[William Martin]

Hi Adendri

 

It doesnt sound like you have a lot of experience of boats. My suggestion is that you do what I did before I bought a boat - rent one for a week in the middle of winter - then see if you still like them!

[slowcoach]

that is only my leisure/pleasure boats i spent 25 years on barges, and so did my dad andmy brother spent 12 years

 

 

 

 

i also hired a narrowboat for the day, one of my friends has anarrowboat, me and my brother also went last year december 23rd on my grp boat dawncfta 22 to castleford rioughly 4 hours from where the boat is now, with my brother on the bow, breaking ice in the water with the boat hook, so know what it is like in winter, did the same the previous winter, my boat had blown air heating but obviously a stove gets a lot warmer , i have the pics somehwere if i find it i will try and scan it in to show yo the snow, hopefully whatever narrowboat i get will have a better back deck than one near us that day as the woman slipped on the back deck and went in to water -5 degress, rushed straigvht to hospital with suspected hypothermia

[slowcoach]

my previous boat, dawncraft 22

 

 

 

 

picture taken from my brother, then, norman 23

[bottle]

You'll have to slow down a little, when you get onto the canals

[slowcoach]

can anyone give me things that i should look out for the other week only looked around it for about 5 minutes so is there anything to specifically look for seen as i will be with my wife

 

many thanks

 

 

 

 

Richard