History Of Thomas Bantock Boat

[St Tudno]

Hi all,

 

I brought my Bantock, St Tudno just over a year ago, she has been sympathetically repaired,replated & restored and i have had a full cabin built on as i plan on travelling the system in a year or so when she is fully fitted out & painted in colours(of which i would like to link to her first carriers.

 

I am trying to find out as much history as possible on her to put together an album of her life, i would love to find her BCN No.

 

St Tudno was originally wooden bottomed, but she has distinctive knee's which come out at the bottom to carry the side Elm planks, i havebeen told that this means she was one of the very early Bantocks also that she was probably built for long distance having had these knee's fitted.

 

I have also been told she was previously called Rosie.

 

Any advice, points in the right direction, or contacts for advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards

Kevin

[Athy]

Hi Kevin, hope you and your good lady got back to base safely after your problems at Sutton Cheney, and that you discover the infomation which you require.

 

Mike (next-moor neighbour at Shackerstone).

[pete harrison]

Hi all,

 

I brought my Bantock, St Tudno just over a year ago,

 

Any advice, points in the right direction, or contacts for advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards

Kevin

There is a common thought amongst enthusiasts that hulls like ST TUDNO were built by Thomas Bantock, and subsequently they are nowadays known as "Mk 1 Bantocks" (as opposed to the more common Thomas Bantock / G.W.R.Co. boats known now as "Mk2 Bantocks"). I have found no evidence to link "Mk1 Bantocks" to Thomas Bantock (although he did own one or two at a later date), and those that retain their B.C.N.Co. gauge plates can all be traced back to Pickford & Co., Tipton / Wolverhampton.

[AMModels]

There is a common thought amongst enthusiasts that hulls like ST TUDNO were built by Thomas Bantock, and subsequently they are nowadays known as "Mk 1 Bantocks" (as opposed to the more common Thomas Bantock / G.W.R.Co. boats known now as "Mk2 Bantocks"). I have found no evidence to link "Mk1 Bantocks" to Thomas Bantock (although he did own one or two at a later date), and those that retain their B.C.N.Co. gauge plates can all be traced back to Pickford & Co., Tipton / Wolverhampton.

Thats really interesting Pete, we used to own a "mk1" and I had never heard it questioned that they were just that until now. Does that date the mk1's to earlier than the other bantock hulls?

[Timleech]

Thats really interesting Pete, we used to own a "mk1" and I had never heard it questioned that they were just that until now. Does that date the mk1's to earlier than the other bantock hulls?

 

 

They were certainly commonly known as 'Bantocks' in the 1960s, at that time they were the only type that I knew of - the others were perhaps all still lurking around the BCN.

 

Tim

[St Tudno]

Hi Kevin, hope you and your good lady got back to base safely after your problems at Sutton Cheney, and that you discover the infomation which you require.

 

Mike (next-moor neighbour at Shackerstone).

Hi Mike,

 

A keyway managed to rattle its way out of the gear linkage, managed to repair it no problem & got back under our own steam.

Quite good for first voyage.

 

Regards

Kevin

There is a common thought amongst enthusiasts that hulls like ST TUDNO were built by Thomas Bantock, and subsequently they are nowadays known as "Mk 1 Bantocks" (as opposed to the more common Thomas Bantock / G.W.R.Co. boats known now as "Mk2 Bantocks"). I have found no evidence to link "Mk1 Bantocks" to Thomas Bantock (although he did own one or two at a later date), and those that retain their B.C.N.Co. gauge plates can all be traced back to Pickford & Co., Tipton / Wolverhampton.

Hi Pete,

thankyou for your reply, i was talking with Laurance Hogg this morning whom mentioned your name & how knowledgeable you are on historic boats, i was going to try & contact you later today.

 

I would love to have a chat with you.

 

Apart from the knee's i mentioned what other distinctive marks could i look for to determine her age?

 

Regards

Kevin

[AMModels]

on ours the knees were a feature of the fitout, they were in situ and the cladding went down to them and was then cut around them which I suppose had the added bonus of allowing air below the floor. Ours had that fat cheeked look to the fore end which along with the conventional shaped guards marked them as so different to the plainer shape and more industrial style to the guards.

 

I think this is what is colloquially named a mk2?

[Derek R.]

That's GERALD if I'm not mistaken.

[AMModels]

That's GERALD if I'm not mistaken.

you aren't. heres the other end...

 

[Derek R.]

Wherein lived not only Christine and Keith, but pedigree goats and a Cornish Rex cat! - At least, they did when we met them for the first time in 1983 - or was it '82, memory fails.

[pete harrison]

I think this is what is colloquially named a mk2?

GERALD has no connection with Thomas Bantock at all, and is not what enthusiasts call a "Mk2 Bantock".

 

If anybody has a photograph of Warwickshire Fly Boat Company's former butty SIBERIA or Ian Braine's former butty SUCCESS these are both examples of what enthusiasts call a "Mk2 Bantock".

Thats really interesting Pete, we used to own a "mk1" and I had never heard it questioned that they were just that until now. Does that date the mk1's to earlier than the other bantock hulls?

Unfortunately I do not have the B.C.N.Co. gauge number for FALCON, and I am not aware of it still being with the boat in its current form. FALCON is undoubtedly made out of the fore end of what enthusiasts call a "Mk1 Bantock" and it is thought amongst researchers that these iron hulls pre-date the 1873 B.C.N.Co. gauging system, but their exact dates of construction - as well as who built them - can only be speculative until more information becomes available.

[pete harrison]

Hi Pete,

 

Apart from the knee's i mentioned what other distinctive marks could i look for to determine her age?

 

Regards

Kevin

I have seen ST TUDNO countless times over the past twenty years or so and I can confirm that it is what enthusiasts call a "Mk1 Bantock".

Edited September 22, 2013 by pete harrison

[AMModels]

GERALD has no connection with Thomas Bantock at all, and is not what enthusiasts call a "Mk2 Bantock".

 

If anybody has a photograph of Warwickshire Fly Boat Company's former butty SIBERIA or Ian Braine's former butty SUCCESS these are both examples of what enthusiasts call a "Mk2 Bantock".

Unfortunately I do not have the B.C.N.Co. gauge number for FALCON, and I am not aware of it still being with the boat in its current form. FALCON is undoubtedly made out of the fore end of what enthusiasts call a "Mk1 Bantock" and it is thought amongst researchers that these iron hulls pre-date the 1873 B.C.N.Co. gauging system, but their exact dates of construction - as well as who built them - can only be speculative until more information becomes available.

Thanks for that who built Gerald and was it for S&L? I have pics of Success somewhere having been moored behind her on the way to PB national, I cant find them to post tho.

 

OK I know you have the best records I know of historic boats but I had no idea you had them cross referenced with posters names on the forum hehehe. If the Falcon on Jim Sheads site is the same one we used to own she has been stretched by 15ft and slimmed down by at least a couple of inches.

[pete harrison]

Thanks for that who built Gerald and was it for S&L?

I have no idea who built GERALD but the first owner listed on its B.C.N.Co. gauge sheet is Mrs G.M. Hingley, Clent - later passing to Harts Hill Iron Co. Ltd. and then Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd.. This shape of boat was very common amongst the Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. fleet when I visited there in the mid 1970's, and all that I have traced were from acquisitions.

OK I know you have the best records I know of historic boats but I had no idea you had them cross referenced with posters names on the forum hehehe. If the Falcon on Jim Sheads site is the same one we used to own she has been stretched by 15ft and slimmed down by at least a couple of inches.

The B.W.B. index number for 'your' FALCON is 70182, and it has been 60'ish long for several years, although as you say it was once 45' long (see advert in Waterways World magazine April 1977 page 71). This FALCON was tied for several years on the River Chess at Rickmansworth, but I think it was gone last time I was up there.

[St Tudno]

Thankyou all for your comments/replies (please keep them coming)

 

On restoration at PJ Barbers Sheet Stores Basin St Tudno looks like she has never been shortened or lengthened.

I have recently had a good look at Success as she was at Alvecote for the last 5-6 weeks, & can see the differences between the Mk1 & Mk2.

 

I would like to put some photo's up on here of St Tudno's progress but cannot seem to find how to. (help pls)

 

I have sent updated restoration photo's to Ross Prettyman at HNBC which he will be putting up on the HNBC site soon.

 

St Tudno with the wooden cabin on can be seen on the HNBC site under day boats, i brought her with the cabin 3/4 smashed off & JP3 removed.

I have seen ST TUDNO countless times over the past twenty years or so and I can confirm that it is what enthusiasts call a "Mk1 Bantock".

Thanks for the confirmation Pete.

I would like to put some photo's up on here of St Tudno's progress but cannot seem to find how to. (help pls)

[Derek R.]

Hi Kevin,

 

Image posting is done via a photo host - third party such as flickr, photobucket and so on. Once an account is opened up with them (free) then the images loaded into them can be 'translated' into a code suitable for including in a post.

 

Whilst not quite a 'needle in a haystack', there is guidance in pasting images HERE, though it's not as obvious as maybe it should be to newcomers!

 

Edited for typo

 

Further edit:

 

There is an extensive post started this April that may help (or confuse) further!

 

Derek

Edited September 23, 2013 by Derek R.

[pete harrison]

I have sent updated restoration photo's to Ross Prettyman at HNBC which he will be putting up on the HNBC site soon.

Ros Prettyman is a she, Unless she has a son named Ross of course

i brought her with the cabin 3/4 smashed off & JP3 removed.

ST TUDNO was fitted with a Lister JS3 (serial number 181JS3MP12 43.5hp @ 1500 r.p.m.), but these are often mistaken for a JP3.

[St Tudno]

Ros Prettyman is a she, Unless she has a son named Ross of course

ST TUDNO was fitted with a Lister JS3 (serial number 181JS3MP12 43.5hp @ 1500 r.p.m.), but these are often mistaken for a JP3.

That was a slip on the s

& i stand corrected on the engine

Regards

Kevin

[FMC Ling 317]

Thankyou all for your comments/replies (please keep them coming)

 

On restoration at PJ Barbers Sheet Stores Basin St Tudno looks like she has never been shortened or lengthened.

I have recently had a good look at Success as she was at Alvecote for the last 5-6 weeks, & can see the differences between the Mk1 & Mk2.

 

I would like to put some photo's up on here of St Tudno's progress but cannot seem to find how to. (help pls)

 

I have sent updated restoration photo's to Ross Prettyman at HNBC which he will be putting up on the HNBC site soon.

 

St Tudno with the wooden cabin on can be seen on the HNBC site under day boats, i brought her with the cabin 3/4 smashed off & JP3 removed.

Thanks for the confirmation Pete.

I would like to put some photo's up on here of St Tudno's progress but cannot seem to find how to. (help pls)

Here you go Kev :-p