Too much energy

[Ex- Member]

Just when all was going so well

 

We just noticed the Outback wasn't charging, checked the 60amp fuse to battery and it has tripped. Nothing seems awry, nothing hot or overheating, batteries about 3/4 SOC

 

Switched back on and ran for a short time, very bright sun and I noticed 36amps plus going in, it then tripped. We've switched it back on a few times, and when it registers 35 amps incoming appears it trips again. This is a Flexmax 60 also have a battery equalize set at 14.4v

 

Again nothing seems awry checked outside connections etc. Could this just be an over sensitive fuse, it's supposed to be 60 amp, but more designed for Audio electrical though.

 

Just clicked off again now at 32 amps.

 

ANY IDEAS anyone ???

[Justme]

The 60 amps is OUT GOING.

 

Not incoming.

[Ex- Member]

The 60 amps is OUT GOING.

 

Not incoming.

 

Yeah I keep getting mixed up LOL

 

I'm pretty sure it's the fuse. It's too coincidental that the day we get record amperage the fuse trips. Also no cooling fan is coming on on the flexmax and everything seems to be working fine, batteries cool ets. Ive jammed the switch in for now, I'll go for a 90 amp.

[onionbargee]

Good replies cheers

 

I'm thinking the cost and effort of trying to divert excess energy will not be worth it. I might just add some more cooling fans and try to be extravagant LOL

 

One good outcome from this is it's keeping the boat cool with our floor fans on constantly through the day. We're managing to keep the interior boat temperature much lower than the outside temp, and that's with doors and side hatches open. where as before it was the opposite and mid afternoon around 5c hotter than outside on average.

 

We went out for 3 hours yesterday, it was a very hot 28c outside, back in the boat was really cool, didn't think to take a temperature though. Around 11am today it was 23c outside and 16c inside.

 

It will be interesting to see when we begin not having enough power, I'll probably add another 250w when that happens using flexi panels.

 

Ref global warming.

 

Why would heating of a solar panel add to global warming, global warming is mainly a result of burning fossil fuels not heat

not proven, only a theory.

[Justme]

The fuse should be rated for 120-150% of max current as long as that is below the cable max current capacity.

 

 

What sort of fuse is it?

 

Is it getting hot in use?

 

Are you using well made crimed on terminals?

[blodger]

Meaty zener diode to a heater element in the calorifier.

Could you fool a VSR relay with diodes to the same effect?

[Ex- Member]

The 60 amp breaker isn't getting hot, just about warm I would say. All cables are cool, and batteries. All terminals properly done with glued heat shrink, I've even been complimented on the quality of work LOL

 

Have wedged the breaker so it cant disconnect again. Outback has run perfectly well no overheating of even it's cooling fan being engaged. I went for this just in case i needed to isolate the Outback from the bank for any repair or adding of additional panels.

 

The fuse/breaker is one of these.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Audio-Circuit-Breaker-Fuse-Holder-60A-Amp-Amplifier-AGU-Style-12V-/221271392053?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3384cd7f35

 

Neat little solution but clearly a bit over sensitive. I'll have to source something a bit more reliable.

[Justme]

That link says that it can only take 4mm2 cable.

 

That is way under sized for 60 amps.

 

I have used similar units (bigger & square) for my array disconnects.

 

But they are 100amps rating with just 6 amps current. I dint want the fusing just the switch.

[Ex- Member]

That link says that it can only take 4mm2 cable.

 

That is way under sized for 60 amps.

 

I have used similar units (bigger & square) for my array disconnects.

 

But they are 100amps rating with just 6 amps current. I dint want the fusing just the switch.

 

Hi justme

 

I have 35mm cable going in and out of this switch The switch accepts (4/8 AWG input & output) You can remove the Red bits and fit thicker cable. I think that 4mm is meant to be 40mm

 

ETA although another ad says the same 4mm. I'm not sure what it means but they take 35mm cable no problem.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Julynian

[smileypete]

If the breaker has screw terminals, check they're still nice and tite. Large dia fine stranded wire into screw terminals can be problematic:

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&q=screw+terminals+fine+stranded+wire

 

Maybe just replace the breaker with a fuse, the controller instructions should give the type and ratings.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited September 7, 2013 by smileypete

[Lady Muck]

Is it possible to send some of this surplus energy to the boat moored opposite me? They arrived in the afternoon, three days ago. Genny went on straight away. Ok, washing machine, we thought. But it went til about 9pm

Yesterday they ran it 10am to 10pm, today, 10am to 9pm. What are they doing in there? I'm intrigued.

[smileypete]

Why not give them a knock ask if they've got electrical probs.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Ex- Member]

If the breaker has screw terminals, check they're still nice and tite. Large dia fine stranded wire into screw terminals can be problematic:

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&q=screw+terminals+fine+stranded+wire

 

Maybe just replace the breaker with a fuse, the controller should give the type and ratings.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Hi Pete

 

Didn't think of that I'll be checking that out tomorrow. The screws were quite small and all brass so I didn't grolley them in too much LOL

[Ex- Member]

Well we're still producing too much energy, batteries full at 10.30 and Outback switching it's self off periodically. Lovely bright sunshine, so the immersion heater went on again for 30 minutes. It astonishing how much the batteries have already recovered, already back over 3/4 full. The panels also hit a record 37.6 amps a couple of days ago which was nice to see.

 

Anyway due to this we've not been running the engine accept for moving, and in the past 2.5 weeks we've only done a 2 mile jaunt. I noticed the engine battery has dropped from full to 3/4 so assuming this is natural discharge. Anyway with the batteries back up to par I thought I would charge the engine battery via our Sterling 20 amp charger. So I disconnected the connections to the main battery bank and just left connections to the engine battery. I'v now plugged the Sterling into the 240 inverter supplied 240 supply and trying to get the battery to full charge. It's been running happily for the last 30 minutes and nearing full charge.

 

We rarely plan to cruise long distances in single trips so the engine battery will probably rarely reach a full charge. I have a very small solar panel about 6w, would this be a better option permanently connected to the engine battery though? or is the sterling solution better as it's a proper regulated charge.Of course only when excess power is available.

[Jambo]

That link says that it can only take 4mm2 cable.

 

That is way under sized for 60 amps.

 

I have used similar units (bigger & square) for my array disconnects.

 

But they are 100amps rating with just 6 amps current. I dint want the fusing just the switch.

 

Do you use breakers in place of an isolator switch? The isolator switches are coming in at about £35+ so it would be nice to find a cheaper alternative.

 

Also can you or smileypete link to inline fuses that you would recommend? I'm using an FM80 and 35mm2 cable so I guess I'd be after ~100A

[Ex- Member]

I note they do these now without a trip.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IMC-Audio-100-Amp-Inline-AGU-Fuse-Holder-Fits-4-8-10-Gauge-Wire-/230998811209?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item35c89a2249

 

On other electrical work I've used this type.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/In-line-MEGA-fuse-holder-100-500-Amp-rating-FH568-/141054112973?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Safety_Security&hash=item20d77af4cd

 

Both reasonably priced. The second type I also had spare fuses included. There's loads of different types on e-bay

[Jambo]

Cheers. I was just checking out those MEGA fuses. Looks like they will do the job quite nicely.

[Ex- Member]

Cheers. I was just checking out those MEGA fuses. Looks like they will do the job quite nicely.

 

They have a very good quality feel to them, I mounted mine on off cut hardwood board. I think I'll buy one for the outback and replace the trippy one. After all to isolate you just need to undo a terminal nut either end, could even fit a wing nut.

[Justme]

For high current fuses on the dc side I use the mega ones on to a home made holder.

 

They can also be used as a slow disconnect method. For fast disconnect I have a large insulated cable cutter. Odd I know but I have had so many quality HD breakers weld themselves together so they cant be shut down its the safest method.

 

On the solar side I dont fuse as the max current it can produce can not damage the cable size I have used even in a direct short. I have used 100amp (in each string) & 300amp (for the combined strings) resettable fuses as disconnects. They are so far over rated (4-5 amps @ 80-120v per string) it does not matter that they are cheap.

[Ex- Member]

OK we've had a rethink, we currently are using a twin tub washing machine, very energy efficient. We have noticed it does require quite a lot of water though. And of course a bit more labour intensive.

 

Anyway with all this additional energy we just as well run a proper auto washing, when energy levels high, do a wash, simples!

 

We've found this model. Our inverter is 3kw pure sine wave.

 

http://www.idealkit.co.uk/products/beko-wm5102w-5kg-1000-rpm-washing-machine?utm_source=google-product-search&gclid=CPLmo5W9xbkCFY7LtAodW1kA5w

 

Anyone use this or can advise on suitability. A+ rated is what caught our eye.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Julynian

[George94]

That looks like good value. It has the vital function that, annoyingly, my more expensive Bosch lacks - spin only. Being able to spin as much of the moisture out of your clothes as possible speeds up drying times immensely, and uses much less power than a dryer.

 

ETA: Don't forget that in winter, you won't have excess free power.

Edited September 12, 2013 by George94

[Ex- Member]

That looks like good value. It has the vital function that, annoyingly, my more expensive Bosch lacks - spin only. Being able to spin as much of the moisture out of your clothes as possible speeds up drying times immensely, and uses much less power than a dryer.

 

ETA: Don't forget that in winter, you won't have excess free power.

 

Hi george, don't worry I'm aware, hence possibly ordering additional panels mentioned previously.

 

Lynn's gone ahead and ordered it. It does have some great spec though and the A+ rating isn't much more than our fridge

• Estimated annual energy consumption: 158kW/year.

Has some great reviews too.

 

Spin speed could be higher though, but we have a good area for drying even in winter. Compared to some of the Candys, it really is a pretty good deal.

[Justme]

Use some sort of hot fill & it will use even less energy per cycle. As will using a lower temp cycle.

 

Also look at the water used per cycle. Important for a boater.

 

 

158kWh per year is about 35ah per day on average for a 12v nom system.

 

I would also estimate that the 158kWh is calculated using 1 wash every 2 days.

 

So 70ah every other day.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Justme

[Ex- Member]

Use some sort of hot fill & it will use even less energy per cycle. As will using a lower temp cycle.

 

Also look at the water used per cycle. Important for a boater.

 

 

158kWh per year is about 35ah per day on average for a 12v nom system.

 

I would also estimate that the 158kWh is calculated using 1 wash every 2 days.

 

So 70ah every other day.

 

Hi Just me, cheers for that.

 

I sussed the water usage which is 33l at full load which in turn solved the mystery of rated usage at at 4 washes per week, so you're pretty much spot on.

 

I will plumb it from the calorifier too as in winter the water will be hot as it's part of the central heating, so will save on energy required to heat water, just perfect for winter and shortage of solar.

 

Found it by luck really as we used A+ in the search and it came up front page. It's short depth is very useful for fitting on boats too.

[smileypete]

For high current fuses on the dc side I use the mega ones on to a home made holder.

 

They can also be used as a slow disconnect method. For fast disconnect I have a large insulated cable cutter. Odd I know but I have had so many quality HD breakers weld themselves together so they cant be shut down its the safest method.

 

Fuses and breakers have a finite maximum fault current handling, usually called breaking capacity or interrupt rating, not to be confused with trip current.

 

Say the breakers have a 60A trip current with a 500A breaking capacity. Then a fuse of say 400A and 3kA interrupt rating could be used as well to provide higher max fault current handling. Even if a short pulls say 2kA though the breaker and it welds, the fuse should handle it OK.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited September 14, 2013 by smileypete