Propeller

[pevil]

Hi All,

 

After my recent post it looks like the prop on my NB has to come off, has anyone ever managed to do this with the boat in the water, it is accessible through the weed hatch but I don't know how tight it will be on the shaft, tips would be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

Peter.

[John Orentas]

Hi All,

 

After my recent post it looks like the prop on my NB has to come off, has anyone ever managed to do this with the boat in the water, it is accessible through the weed hatch but I don't know how tight it will be on the shaft, tips would be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

Peter.

 

 

Hi Peter.

 

In theory it is possible to do what you suggest, in practise you don't stand a cat in hell's chance.

I should wait until you get into a dry-dock, even then it can be a struggle. If you pre-warn Crowthers what you are doing I am sure they will turn it around very quickly. (No pun intended)

 

Someone else may have other ideas.

Edited September 27, 2006 by John Orentas

[DHutch]

Have spend almost an intire day replacing the weedcutter, by grandad has voed he's never doing that again!

- And it can be any easlyer a job geting the prop off, espcailly if you havnt done it before, and its got a stuck on.

 

I would "cope" with you current situation untill you nexd dock, then get it done.

- Johns idea of ringing crowthers in advance is good. Ring them as ask how long they will take.

- They may be able to do it, and have it back to you, in the time your our blakcing.

 

 

Daniel

[John Orentas]

Have spend almost an intire day replacing the weedcutter, by grandad has voed he's never doing that again!

- And it can be any easlyer a job geting the prop off, espcailly if you havnt done it before, and its got a stuck on.

 

I would "cope" with you current situation untill you nexd dock, then get it done.

- Johns idea of ringing crowthers in advance is good. Ring them as ask how long they will take.

- They may be able to do it, and have it back to you, in the time your our blakcing.

Daniel

 

 

Weed-cutter. I've not had any experience of them until last week. Helping three boats through the Rochdale one boat got very badly fouled, the chap with some assistance took well over an hour to clear it and it was only the usual plastic bags, rope and 'T' shirts.

 

He had a cutter fitted but later reckoned that it would have taken half the time to clear if the gadget was not fitted, apart from anything else he kept cutting his hand on the damn thing.

 

One more thing, it is surprising how many people don't have the right tackle with them. Always carry a good quality non-retractable Stanley knife with extra blades, I have never found anything better.

 

The boat by the way was one of Gary's, 60 ft cruiser painted all red. Forgotten it's name though.

[twoputtyrats]

Weed-cutter. I've not had any experience of them until last week. Helping three boats through the Rochdale one boat got very badly fouled, the chap with some assistance took well over an hour to clear it and it was only the usual plastic bags, rope and 'T' shirts.

 

He had a cutter fitted but later reckoned that it would have taken half the time to clear if the gadget was not fitted, apart from anything else he kept cutting his hand on the damn thing.

 

One more thing, it is surprising how many people don't have the right tackle with them. Always carry a good quality non-retractable Stanley knife with extra blades, I have never found anything better.

 

The boat by the way was one of Gary's, 60 ft cruiser painted all red. Forgotten it's name though.

 

On our maiden voyage we encountered a double duvet - no doubt dropped from a passing hire boat or summat.. anyway this was wrapped well and truely round the prop and the aformentioned stanley knife was worse than useless.. Quick call to our builder provided info about my new preferred secret weapon...

 

Our breadknife from the kitchen knife set..... The serrated edges cut through cloth much better than the stanley did - however I have one of each in the "weedhatch toolkit" part of "Another Way's" toolbox...

 

SImes.

[BEngo]

Hi All,

 

After my recent post it looks like the prop on my NB has to come off, has anyone ever managed to do this with the boat in the water, it is accessible through the weed hatch but I don't know how tight it will be on the shaft, tips would be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

Peter.

 

 

I have done this, (in order to send my prop to Crowthers too). The best technique is actually to take out the whole prop and stern shaft as follows:

 

Get a spare length of bar about a foot long and the same diameter as the stern shaft.

 

Remove the rudder

 

Undo and remove the stern shaft coupling, plummer block etc.

 

Give the stern gear a good greasing.

 

Slacken the stern gland.

 

Go down the weed hatch and fasten a piece of rope to the blades .

 

Pass the end of the rope up under the counter so that you can draw the prop up onto the bank from the outside of the boat.

 

Make damn sure this bit of rope is well secured at both ends.

 

Double check!

 

Push the spare piece of bar into the stern tube gland, forcing the prop and shaft out of the stern tube.

 

When free draw the shaft and prop up onto the bank using the rope.

 

Tighten the stern tube gland around the spare bit of bar. If the spare bar is long enough a Jubilee clip at either end will stop it coming out of the stern gear. Otherwise keep well away.

 

To remove the prop from the shaft, take out the split pin and loosen the prop nut about 3 turns then drop the whole prop and shaft into a vertical bit of scaffold tube on a very solid surface. The height of drop needs to be as much of the stern shaft as you can. You are using the prop and shaft as a hammer and the scaffold tube as an anvil. You may need to repeat the treatment, but eventually the prop will come loose. Undo the nut and remove the prop. Make sure you save the key.

 

To re-fit the lot first assemble the prop and key to the shaft and fit the nut with a new split-pin. You will know how tight the nut needs to be when the original split-pin hole lines up.

 

Slacken the stern gland and then, using ropes, hands down weed hatch etc. guide the prop shaft into the stern tube, pushing your temporary bar out of the way into the boat.

 

Re-pack the sterntube ( don't just re-tighten it) and re-fit the couplings etc.

 

Take the ropes off. This is important!

 

Re-fit the rudder.

 

Re-fit weed hatch lid.

 

Test.

 

Depending on your set-up this is quicker, safer (in terms of likelihood of losing a prop/nut/key/spanners etc.) and easier than trying to get the prop off down the weed hatch. When I did it there were no more than a few drips of water got into the boat and those stopped once the stern gland was sorted out.

 

Don't wait until the cut has gone cold, unless you like frostbite. Now is a good time as the water is about as warm as its likely to get.

 

Regards

 

N.

[alan_fincher]

Well blow me down!

 

I did more or less exactly as described by Bengo about 30 years ago !

 

At best, I though such practices were higly unusual, so I wasn't going to say I've done it.

 

But as someone else has, I can confirm that it works, and it's possible to get almost no water into the boat.

 

On most boats I'd have said that removing the rudder was going to be a hrader job than drawing the prop and it's shaft out backwards. But as you have obviously already had the rudder out with the boat in water, that's not going to hold to many fears for you.

 

I seem to remember having to use a great deal of force to get the prop off the tapered shaft. Unless yours is a great deal looser, (which I don't think it will be!), I think you'd have very little hope of removing the prop from the shaft whilst the whole lots under water. I wouldn't even think of trying, but perhaps someone will pop up and say they've done it!

 

Don't underestimate how cold you'll get, though !

[pevil]

Thanks guys you've all been very helpfull as usual, now do I try it in the water or not, decisions, decisions!!!!

[Yoda]

Thanks guys you've all been very helpfull as usual, now do I try it in the water or not, decisions, decisions!!!!

 

Try to do it in the water first. If you fail it will then cost you a crane out.

[Hairy-Neil]

I once removed an Enfield Z Drive from a cruiser on the water by moving ballast from the rear of the boat to the front till the stern tube came clear of the water. Was a pain in the butt though saved about 250 quid in crane fees.

[Yoda]

I once removed an Enfield Z Drive from a cruiser on the water by moving ballast from the rear of the boat to the front till the stern tube came clear of the water. Was a pain in the butt though saved about 250 quid in crane fees.

 

Don't know if that is practicable on a narrow boat due to the low bow. I suppose you could try beaching it.

[awatsonbcp]

or bench it on the cill of a lock if its in a quiet area?

[Yoda]

or bench it on the cill of a lock if its in a quiet area?

 

Sounds dangerous to me but in a large lock, could be done. Don't do it by yourself for safety reasons.

[alan_fincher]

Emergency repairs have been known to occur in staircase locks, but not really allowed, and certainly not recommended unless you know the bottom is flat and debris free.

 

If you can get the rudder out, and if you can get the leading boss off the shaft, to allow withdrawal backwards, then what has been suggested should be possible "in water", I think.

 

Not easy, but possible.

 

I'd certainly not recommend beaching just one end on a cill in a normal lock. Although I've seen people do it, it must put huge structural forces on the boat they were not designed to withstand.

 

BW would take a dim view on you using ANY lock, staircase or otherwise, for these activities. So would your insurers, I'm sure !

Edited September 27, 2006 by alan_fincher

[DHutch]

Don't know if that is practicable on a narrow boat due to the low bow. I suppose you could try beaching it.

Yeah, the lengh as well.

- Although i bealve at bunbury the use there gantry crane, deigned to lift engine of of boats, to life the back end of there hireboats up out of the water.

 

Our yeah, depending where you are, find some where tidel, preston estary for instance, and stick in on the mud! Or theres always the good old staircase lock trick.

 

 

 

Daniel

[Yamanx]

All credit to those that have carried this out in water.

 

However, I've seen loads of places with slipways, tractors, winches and stuff. All you need to do is winch up a slip way for an hour or so, knock off the prop, re-float it until you get your prop fixed, re-furbed etc. Then same again to put it back on again. Whole process is fairly painless I would have thought? I know boatyards, for the main, are ruthless capatilist money making machines and super rich owners , but an hour or so pulled up a slip aint going to be silly money like craning out.

 

Even less painless if you've got one off and a new one on.

[Hairy-Neil]

I know boatyards, for the main, are ruthless capatilist money making machines and super rich owners ,

 

 

I know of a boatyard where the owners clain the double dry dock would be more profitable if they used it as moorings for three boats.

[DHutch]

I know of a boatyard where the owners clain the double dry dock would be more profitable if they used it as moorings for three boats.

Not good! *thinks of places with double dry dock, that are romoured to maybe close* Worsley?

 

 

Daniel

[John Orentas]

Not good! *thinks of places with double dry dock, that are romoured to maybe close* Worsley?

Daniel

 

 

Worsley dry docks are listed structures so change of use we would hope would not be permitted, though you can never be quite sure if BW gain influence there. The vandals may get the scent of profit again.

[Chris M]

I can't believe noone has mentioned 3 legged pullers yet

 

Here's one -

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.js...=48634&ts=18267

A good motor factors should be able to get one.

 

Center punching the end of the propshaft should be enough to stop the pointy bolt slipping off the end.

 

I'm guessing on most boats you'd need to remove the rudder to use one of these but it's got to be less risky using one of these than removing the propshaft.

 

Maybe there's not enough space between the blades on your prop to get one of these in? worked for me though

[John Orentas]

As we are going more deeply into all this, many boatyards often have to resort to heating the propeller with an acetylene burner or even two, these things can be really tight especially if some pessimist has loctited them originally.

 

An added point if buying a new propeller you should really be very careful to match the tapers on prop and shaft to get a good fit and a common error make sure the 'key' is not adding a separation.

 

Often it is worthwhile replacing both as a pair. Take a very good look at the shaft and check for wear and damage, if the prop is worn out the shaft won't be far behind. If your stern tube gland has been persisantly leaking the cause could be a clapped out prop shaft. Check out your stern tube too.

 

This can go on forever, but such is the fun of owning a narrowboat.

Edited September 28, 2006 by John Orentas

[awatsonbcp]

just came back online to suggest a hub puller.......damn!!!

[pevil]

I've got a puller, used it to remove the tiller, that's on a taper but I don't think it's big enough for the prop, the legs aren't long enough, a puller would be the best thing though I guess, certainly the wife is none to keen on me removing the shaft, Tickety Boo is her pride and joy and she's very worried, hole in the back of the boat etc., would be nice to remove it without having to remove the shaft as well, puller then!! it's worth a try, if I can get one big enough.

 

Peter.

[Proper Job]

It can be done without sinking the boat. I've done it. But its a real 'challenge'.

 

Preparation is everything.

 

You've got to remove the rudder - how easy this is will depend on how its fitted.

 

Make a plate up that fixes over the stern gland packer and uses the same hole centres and the stern packer studs.

 

A piece of soft'ish rubber of the same shape.

 

Tie rope around the prop blades and up on the the rear deck (stops the embarisment having to go fishing for the prop/shaft assembly) and a rope through the weed hatch (this stops the shaft & prop slipping out in an uncontroller way.

 

Remove coupling and any key from the shaft inside.

 

With a person on the back deck holding the rope, push the shaft back in to the stern gland. Remove the sterngland 'packer'. Be ready with your made up plate. This is where you can get wet. DO NOT PUSH THE SHAFT TO FAR DOWN THE TUBE AS LOADS OF WATER WILL COME IN! Make sure the man with the rope don't get carried away and pull it right out

 

Once the shaft is back in the tube put your made up plate and rubber joint over the hole and tighten up on the sterngland packer studs. You should be water tight without getting to wet.

 

With someone in the weedhatch guiding and someone on the rope the shaft can then be withdrawn.

 

Putting it back is the reverse. You need a lot of patience as it can take ages to feed the shaft back in to the tube. Hands get very, very cold.

 

Good luck

 

If in doubt. Dry dock/crane/slip!