Tiller Wobble

[pevil]

Hello all, I could do with some help with this problem please.

 

Tiller wobble, Bought a 1 year old Price Fallows NB last year, 38ft. never been in the water, from the word go I had trouble with tiller/rudder wobble under power, in the past year it seems to have gotten worse, or may be it's me, whatever, but it's annoying and tireing.

I got in touch with Price Fallows who I have to say are very helpful and they suggested I reduce the size of the balance plate, did that but it's not much better infact it's created another problem, prop walk, now I have to keep a constant pull on the tiller to keep the stern from heading to starbourd.

The prop looks fine and as far as I can tell everything is in line, prop - rudder - skeg, I'm at a loss, something seems to be causing a hell of a lot of turbulence to affect the rudder like this, but what?

 

Any ideas.

 

Thanks.

 

Peter.

[alan_fincher]

Do you have any pictures of it out of water that you can post ?

 

These could perhaps help someone see what the problem might be......

[Yoda]

 

Tiller wobble, Bought a 1 year old Price Fallows NB last year, 38ft. never been in the water, from the word go I had trouble with tiller/rudder wobble under power, in the past year it seems to have gotten worse, or may be it's me, whatever, but it's annoying and tireing.

 

 

If its done it from new, why did the builders not find it before you bought it? What has changed since it was built? Has the prop got one blade running out of true?

[John Orentas]

Hi Pevil.

 

The most common cause is a bent, otherwise damaged or badly made propeller, each blade will be contributing varying amounts of thrust. You can improve things by measuring carefully and hammering out any small bends against a 28 lb weight or similar but the best thing would be to send the unit to Crowthers to be re-set. It is not unknown for even new propellers to be unsymmetrical.

 

Loose or generally worn tiller bearings can cause wobble too and a heavy rudder plate usually works better than a lighter one, most working boats had rudders made from half inch plate or even thicker they take out a lot of vibration.

 

Reducing the size of the ballance plate is not the way to go, it may disguise the problem but it will also tend to make steering heavy and manoeuvring more difficult.

[Guest]

Hi Pevil.

 

The most common cause is a bent, otherwise damaged or badly made propeller, each blade will be contributing varying amounts of thrust. You can improve things by measuring carefully and hammering out any small bends against a 28 lb weight or similar but the best thing would be to send the unit to Crowthers to be re-set. It is not unknown for even new propellers to be unsymmetrical.

 

Loose or generally worn tiller bearings can cause wobble too and a heavy rudder plate usually works better than a lighter one, most working boats had rudders made from half inch plate or even thicker they take out a lot of vibration.

 

Reducing the size of the ballance plate is not the way to go, it may disguise the problem but it will also tend to make steering heavy and manoeuvring more difficult.

John

Can you tell us either a phone number or address for Crowthers?

Thanks

[Liam]

Crowther Marine... website and contact info...

 

http://www.crowthermarine.co.uk/2.html

[Guest]

Crowther Marine... website and contact info...

 

http://www.crowthermarine.co.uk/2.html

Thank you.

[John Orentas]

Crowther Marine... website and contact info...

 

http://www.crowthermarine.co.uk/2.html

 

 

 

Tel. 0161 652 4234

 

Crowthers will also modify propellors, giving them larger or smaller diameter and/or changing the pitch. They come back looking like brand new.

Edited September 25, 2006 by John Orentas

[pevil]

Do you have any pictures of it out of water that you can post ?

 

These could perhaps help someone see what the problem might be......

 

 

Hi, Sorry no pictures I'm afraid, not been out of the water yet and I didn't think to take one of the rudder when I had it off but thanks for reply.

[blackrose]

Apart from being annoying and tiring, could this kind of problem affect the bearings or cause metal fatigue anywhere?

[pevil]

Hi Pevil.

 

The most common cause is a bent, otherwise damaged or badly made propeller, each blade will be contributing varying amounts of thrust. You can improve things by measuring carefully and hammering out any small bends against a 28 lb weight or similar but the best thing would be to send the unit to Crowthers to be re-set. It is not unknown for even new propellers to be unsymmetrical.

 

Loose or generally worn tiller bearings can cause wobble too and a heavy rudder plate usually works better than a lighter one, most working boats had rudders made from half inch plate or even thicker they take out a lot of vibration.

 

Reducing the size of the ballance plate is not the way to go, it may disguise the problem but it will also tend to make steering heavy and manoeuvring more difficult.

 

Hi John,

 

Your reply has confirmed exactly what I was begining to conclude, it's about the only thing left and I agree reducing the balance plate has not fixed the problem just disguised it a little, looks like it's Crowthers when I have her out to be blacked later this year.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Apart from being annoying and tiring, could this kind of problem affect the bearings or cause metal fatigue anywhere?

 

Don't know about metal fatigue but I'm sure it would damage the top bearing and wear the skeg cup pretty quickly.

 

PS. Like the quote.

[Yamanx]

I cant help you with your prop, and its likely, as John says to be the fault.

 

However, I could build you a rudder. A really good rudder, nay, a brilliant rudder.

 

No I'm not in the business of building rudders but, hey, I like to build 'em, at least the odd one.

 

No charge execpt materials

 

[Mick and Pauline]

I cant help you with your prop, and its likely, as John says to be the fault.

 

However, I could build you a rudder. A really good rudder, nay, a brilliant rudder.

 

No I'm not in the business of building rudders but, hey, I like to build 'em, at least the odd one.

 

No charge execpt materials

 

 

Hi Yamanx,

 

That looks like a good bit of kit, where do put the wheels.

 

Good work,

 

M&P.

[DHutch]

What size prop have you got on there?

- Large, slow running, propellers will naterally cause a 'plusing' though the rudder/tiller.

- You notice this on emilyanne, espically when turning under revs. Even though the wheel.

 

 

Daniel

[blackrose]

PS. Like the quote.

 

Can't claim it as an original I'm afraid.

 

I was on my boat in the middle of the canal waiting for a drydock to be vacated a few months ago when a shocked and dejected looking boater emerged from the chandlery stuffing his wallet into his pocket and climbing back onto his boat. Then suddenly he looked across at me and shouted "You may own your boat..." and pointed at me in mock anger.

 

I think he was slightly mad but I couldn't help laughing.

[ChrisPy]

 

I think he was slightly mad ........................

we all are, aren't we?

[DHutch]

I think he was slightly mad ...

Yeah, im with chris.

- Everyone one this forums mildly barking an minimum, and anyone with a STEAM narrowboat properly needs there head examinimg!

 

 

Daniel

[steaming floater]

I cant help you with your prop, and its likely, as John says to be the fault.

 

However, I could build you a rudder. A really good rudder, nay, a brilliant rudder.

 

No I'm not in the business of building rudders but, hey, I like to build 'em, at least the odd one.

 

No charge execpt materials

 

 

 

good to know, i will keep you in mind

[pevil]

What size prop have you got on there?

- Large, slow running, propellers will naterally cause a 'plusing' though the rudder/tiller.

- You notice this on emilyanne, espically when turning under revs. Even though the wheel.

Daniel

 

Hi Daniel,

 

It's a 16" I think don't know what pitch, a good size but not what I'd call a large prop, the wobble I get is at all speeds although it's more pronouced the faster you go, river work etc.

 

Peter.

[pevil]

I cant help you with your prop, and its likely, as John says to be the fault.

 

However, I could build you a rudder. A really good rudder, nay, a brilliant rudder.

 

No I'm not in the business of building rudders but, hey, I like to build 'em, at least the odd one.

 

No charge execpt materials

 

 

Hello yamanx,

 

Now that's what I call a rudder, I see from the photo that there's not a great deal of ballance plate on there, mine was half the trailing plate until I had it cut down but as I said in my first post that's now created a problem with prop walk, the reason I think is because it's a long way back from the prop now, must be 200mm or so, balance plate is now 20% of the trailing plate which I've been told is about right, I'm considering having a fixed plate fitted just behind the prop, probably 100mm x 10mm to stop the walk, tried it with a piece of timber and it helps, does nothing for the wobble though, some builders fit this plate I think, I've seen a couple of boats like it.

Back to the rudder though I just might take you up on that offer, e-mail me.

 

Peter.

[John Orentas]

Hello yamanx,

 

Now that's what I call a rudder, I see from the photo that there's not a great deal of ballance plate on there, mine was half the trailing plate until I had it cut down but as I said in my first post that's now created a problem with prop walk, the reason I think is because it's a long way back from the prop now, must be 200mm or so, balance plate is now 20% of the trailing plate which I've been told is about right, I'm considering having a fixed plate fitted just behind the prop, probably 100mm x 10mm to stop the walk, tried it with a piece of timber and it helps, does nothing for the wobble though, some builders fit this plate I think, I've seen a couple of boats like it.

Back to the rudder though I just might take you up on that offer, e-mail me.

 

Peter.

 

 

Not a good idea to fit a fixed plate, I would advise you put the ballance blade back at least to were it was. A good guide: Imagine you were in the dry-dock standing behind your boat. At 45 deg tiller the whole of the propeller disc should be obscured.

 

20% ballance plate is not enough.

[DHutch]

Now that's what I call a rudder, I see from the photo that there's not a great deal of ballance plate on there, mine was half the trailing plate until I had it cut down but as I said in my first post that's now created a problem with prop walk, the reason I think is because it's a long way back from the prop now, must be 200mm or so, balance plate is now 20% of the trailing plate which I've been told is about right, I'm considering having a fixed plate fitted just behind the prop, probably 100mm x 10mm to stop the walk, tried it with a piece of timber and it helps, does nothing for the wobble though, some builders fit this plate I think, I've seen a couple of boats like it.

Back to the rudder though I just might take you up on that offer, e-mail me.

 

We have just under 40% ballence plate (120mm infront, 520mm trailing) and would

[pevil]

Not a good idea to fit a fixed plate, I would advise you put the ballance blade back at least to were it was. A good guide: Imagine you were in the dry-dock standing behind your boat. At 45 deg tiller the whole of the propeller disc should be obscured.

 

20% ballance plate is not enough.

 

Thanks John I will consider that, if it is the propeller thats at fault and I get it fixed then a larger ballance plate shouldn't be any trouble, strange though that Price Fallows thought it too much but then again they did build it like that in the first place, strange.

I have read an article that said exactly what you say about the rudder covering the whole prop but then I've read another that says 20%, guess it's down to the individual boat.

[John Orentas]

Hi Pevil.

 

Don't know anything about Price Fallows but the strange thing is I have bought two boats in my time, each from two partners in a company, excellent craftsmen but not one of those chaps had ever been on a floating narrowboat.

 

These days they are all experts at everything.

[pevil]

Hi Pevil.

 

Don't know anything about Price Fallows but the strange thing is I have bought two boats in my time, each from two partners in a company, excellent craftsmen but not one of those chaps had ever been on a floating narrowboat.

 

These days they are all experts at everything.

 

Well I guess at the end of the day it's down to us as to what we do, try and make an informed decision out of all the information one can gather, hence the post and thanks to you and everybody else who replies that's exactly what I shall do, lets hope it works.

 

Peter.