BW winter moorings

[tomandsophie]

We are on the waiting list now for a winter mooring from BW for next winter. I have been told that BW can only supply non-residential moorings. We live aboard full time though (or rather we will do when our boat is built!). So I guess the answer is simply to pay BW for our winter mooring and then just live aboard anyway. At least that way we won't get hassled by them, we're not becoming part of the 'continous cruiser' (no offense to true continuous cruisers) problem, and I guess that they won't give us hassle for living aboard on an officially non-residential mooring so long as we're not too blatant about it.

Is that what others do?

Would very much appreciate any info, particularly from anybody with direct experience of living on a non-residential BW mooring.

I suppose when it comes down to it, if for some reason there was a problem, there's no way that BW could actually prove that you are living on board anyway. Basically, we want to do everything 'by the book' as much as possible. We have a residential mooring on the river which we will definitely be using during the summer, but rumour has it that it floods frequently in the winter so we were looking at a BW winter mooring on the canal where it doesn't flood. Anway, I'll stop blabbering now and let somebody write a reply or two!

[Richard Bustens]

Hi T&S

I know the chap who wrote the book Athena, they are continious crusers and BW alocate them a winter mooring, the year before last it was up Liverpool someware.

[Bernie]

We don't live on our boat and our BW moorings are not considered residential, but recently on our home mooring we had two liveaboards and BW just turned a blind eye. As long as you keep the moorings tidy and don't cause any problems then I think they are in a way glad that someone is there to keep an eye on things.

[Bernie]

Roger,If you are fed up with hearing about Mooring Issues, then don't read them.

The only question asked was about Winter moorings, surely this needs only a polite reply if you could just answer the question, not a tirade about BW and boating for the so called wealthy. As for responding angrily, well I can't be bothered, lifes just too short.

[Paul Evans]

When we bought our boat 3 years ago, we booked a winter mooring at Braunston from BW to take us through until we could organise a marina mooring. There was a line of winter moorings from Bridge 91 to Braunston Turn and it was clear that most, if not all, of the boaters were living-on having given up continuous cruising for the winter. There was evidence of Christmas and New Year celebrations and a real neighbourly atmosphere. Even though we were not living-on we were made very welcome and given lots of support and advice.

 

Living on winter moorings obviously takes some organisation, particularly if there are no services (water, elsan, pump-out) close by. The people at Braunston were fortunate - water point and elsan just round the corner, Ivor and Mel Batchelor to provide diesel, coal, wood etc and the marina not very far away. Whether you will be so lucky on the K&A remains to be seen

[David Schweizer]

I have friends who are registered as continuous cruisers but often choose to book a BW mooring for the winter. They have never been hassed by BW staff for living aboard all winter, and in some cases have become quite friendly with the local Moorings Warden. I am not a permanent liveaboard, but normally cruise throughout the summer, booking a Temporary Mooring for the winter. There have often been liveaboards on the same section (although not this year!), if anything this makes the mooring safer as there are people around to deter potential intruders, and someone who will keep an eye on your boat whilst you are not there. One year I was actually advised by the mooring Warden that there would be a liveaboard moored either side of me, when I enquired about security of the site.

 

I think Bernie is right, if you keep your boat, and the area around, it tidy no one will bother you.

[David Schweizer]

Roger, I think I recognise you. Aren't you the chap walking on-along the towpath with a pronounced stoop, generated by the huge lump of wood you are carrying on your shoulder?

[Richard Bustens]

There are two types of perminant moorers the ones that keep everything clean and tidy and then the other type.

The moorings at henhull have both perminant and weekend moorers but the plase is spotlass then i went to some other moorings , not saying where but they were nearley all perminant and there were sheds falling apart lean toos and rubish everywhere, on the boats and the bank logs, bricks bits of plastic sheeting, and the place looked a right mess

Its no wonder that people have a go at perminants.

Edited January 3, 2005 by Richard Bustens

[Alastair]

Richard, I do know that some moorings look a mess - if you looked at mine, you would probably find it objectionable.

 

I rent a mooring privately. It includes land on the bank, quite a bit.

 

I'd *love* to make it tidier - but I'm not allowed to have so much as a garden shed - so logs are piled up with sheeting on them.

 

If I owned my own mooring, I'd build a wider pontoon, with sheds for storing stuff. Then it would look neater.

 

Until you liveaboard, I think it is best not to pass comment on other people's living habits.

 

Moorings round here (when they do come up for sale), change hands at about 29000 for 60ft. That's for a bit of river bank with the right to fasten up a pontoon, nothing more.

[Richard Bustens]

Hi Alister

It was an observation not a criticism.

I will be a liveabord when compleated and hope that i can keep my stuff neat and tidy.

If some can do it and keep area tidy so can the rest as i said there are several liveabords at henhull and the place is spotless.

[John Orentas]

Alastair.

 

I hope I will not be reading on this site in a year or so that a number of boats have been evicted from a river bank mooring because the place looked like a slum and the council felt that they had to respond complaints from local residents and passing boaters.

 

If I do then you may well have brought it on yourself, we all have a responsibility not to destroy the look of what presumably attracted you to the place initially.

[Cris P]

We have a residential mooring on the river which we will definitely be using during the summer, but rumour has it that it floods frequently in the winter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi, might I ask where on the river you'll be mooring ? From reading your posts I understand you're to be on the K+A. The Avon does flood pretty frequently, it crested the top of Kelston lock a couple of years back - about 9+ feet up. Still if you're up against poles you'll be ok. And you get the day off work

[tomandsophie]

Hi, might I ask where on the river you'll be mooring ? From reading your posts I understand you're to be on the K+A. The Avon does flood pretty frequently, it crested the top of Kelston lock a couple of years back - about 9+ feet up. Still if you're up against poles you'll be ok. And you get the day off work

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't want to give away the exact position (as it is quite a nice quiet private place) but basically it is close to the Keynsham lock, not far upriver from the 'Lockkeepers Inn'. It is very basic - just a riverbank and some trees, no pontoon or poles - but we have the option of moving up to a pontoon just around the corner when the water levels come up. The other option is to go and get a winter mooring from BW around Bathampton area, thus avoiding the 'flood season', i.e. British winter!

[John Orentas]

Roger.

 

Why do you imagine BW should encourage residential moorings, my personal view is that you should have no more right to set up home on the canal system as you have to park an old bus on the hard shoulder of the M6 and make that your permanent residence.

 

The canal system was built as a transportation system to be used by boats which travel the the country, it does not have the infrastructure to support thousands of what can only be described as houseboats, in my experience the residents of these comunities know or care little about the nature or history of the system.

 

Last night I went to a canal society meeting which honoured two or three dozen people who have spent half a lifetime capaigning to save and then restore a canal which would otherwise have been lost. Whatever the motives where thirty five years ago, it was not to create a linear residential boat park for people, many of whom have no interest in the waterways other than for them to provide a way of life which will be subsidised by others.

Edited January 5, 2005 by John Orentas

[nbtafelberg]

John,

 

I find your attitude quite bigotted.

 

I live on Tafelberg our 70ft boat with my family. We love it, we constantly are out exploring the waterways and we pay more than £6000 a year for a mooring...

 

If you ask any of the local lock keepers they will say how often we are out on the River/Canal System. I know most of them by name. Soon it is likely I will take up a post looking after a local Navigation after I helped some boaters move a 1920 dutch fishing barge by towing it alongside my boat, the lock keeper on the main lock recomended me for the position. We even do our shopping by boat. Saving the environment and using the River as a tool rather than just for leisure.

 

Don't forget that a lot of the working boatman lived on their boats, especially towards the end of the era of working boats.

 

I know there are people who should not be on the Rivers/Canals, they don't treat them with respect or try and maintain the proud traditions that our liveaboard working forefathers carried out. But that is Life I guess, you can't force people to be a certain way.

 

I just feel that you brand all Liveaboards as people with boats that never move. When the truth is far from this. In the Marina I am in just on my peir are boaters for whom boating and travelling around on the boats they live on are an essential part of the livestyle we have chosen.

 

Should BW encourage liveaboards?, well I think this comes down to what the function of BW is there for. Is it there to RULE the waterways with an IRON fist, turn it into a plastic boaters heaven or hire boat motorway? Or is it a public service there to serve the needs of those who wish to use the waterways, boaters, anglers equally?.

 

Liveaboards have a place on the waterways system. Instead of putting us down, perhaps people should understand that a lot of us are dedicated to the preservation and growth of the River/Canal system in this country, we spend hours painting and cleaning our boats, providing advice to hire boaters and others just starting out, being there for the gongoozelers. Personally I have learn't to paint Roses and Castles, I am going on a course later this year with Phil Speight to improve my skills.

 

Liveaboards are not "the enemy".

[Big COL]

Chill out guys

 

There is no easy answer to this, you are raising the continuous cruisers debate from a different angle. BW have a case to answer they encourage trade from the canals in going into partnerships with pubs, and owning marinas if they encourage people to use the canals 24/365 as they will need to, to keep these new pubs in business during the winter months then they should provide moorings, at a charge. If as a boater you want to live aboard and expect to moor close to a road so as you can park the car and close to shops and water, then expect to pay for it.

Most of you will probably say thats fine, until a boat moors next to you and has no mooring rights and is left undisturbed, then the situation changes. Whatever system is used it will be open to abuse if not properly policed. Several of you have commented in previous post about moorings that if you moor illegally but keep the moorings tidy and keep your head down BW will leave you alone this really helps no one, I except that you are being forced into this position, but its not the answer you are only strengthening and confusing the continuous cruisers argument. BW should provide moorings and let the moorers police their own moorings then any if strange boats appear they have 14 days, then reported to BW for them to move them on, it will require BW to play their part in this but small self regulating moorings could work.

Edited January 4, 2005 by Big COL

[Bernie]

Chill out guys 

 

Several of you have commented in previous post about moorings that if you moor illegally but keep the moorings tidy and keep your head down BW will leave you alone this really helps no one,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that what was said, and I said it, was that on our mooring site, paid for BTW to BW, was that a couple of the boaters were liveaboards and as long as the moorings were kept tidy and the moorers caused no trouble then BW turned a blind eye. They were glad really to have someone keep an eye on the site. No one was moored illegally.

[David Schweizer]

There seems to be a lot of injured pride and misunderstanding going on Here.

 

First of all, to say that BW discourage residential Moorings is a misrepresentation of the facts. BW have been trying to introduce Residential moorings on the K&A at the Bath end. and are being frustrated by the Planning Department of the District Council, which appears to have a less than positive attitude towards "Houseboats" Some of the moorings are already in place but cannot be let to liveaboards because the Local Council is still refusing Planning Consent.

 

Secondly, I have had no diffuiculty in securing a Six Month Winter mooring from BW. Last autumn i contacte three differnt BW area Offices and sought information on a number of "official" and "unofficial" locations. In each instance, I was given a positive response over the phone together with a calculation of the Charge, I am now happily locted on onmne of these until the end of March.

 

Thirdly, I have not interpretted any of the less than complimentry observations about (some) liveaboards as implying that all liveaboards have a negative impact on the waterways. A couple of years ago whilst I was suffering from a disabling condition, I was forced to keep my boat in the same place for well over a year. I was moored amongst a large number of semi mobile and non mobile liveaboards, and the whole world was there, from the immaculately maintained converted historic boat to the leaking tub with tarpaulins over the cabin to keep the rain out. Some maintained the grassed area next to the towpath, decorating it with annual flowers and potted plants, whilst others retained an interesting collection of scrap iron, old furniture and empty oil drums. Having said that the majority kept their boats reasonably tidy and did not litter the bank with rubbish. The expression "If the cap, fits, wear it" clearly does not apply to you Clevett, so why do you insist on wearing it on behalf of others.

[Big COL]

I think that what was said, and I said it, was that on our mooring site, paid for BTW to BW, was that a couple of the boaters were liveaboards and as long as the moorings were kept tidy and the moorers caused no trouble then BW turned a blind eye. They were glad really to have someone keep an eye on the site. No one was moored illegally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Bernie

 

If BW were glad to have someone keep an eye on the site unofficially, why not just make it official,the whole set up is a nonsense, what may be acceptable in your area, probably would not be tolerated somewhere else. the point I was trying to make is that BW should provide moorings, even if only for the winter months.

[Richard Bustens]

Hi all

I only know john from this forum.

But what i do know is that he is one of these canal pioneers that you go on about, and his name is well known among the resteration brigade, and workes for one of the canal restoration project.

 

He sometimes gets on his high horse, and witters on a bit. but always with the belief that he is helping someone to achive somthing they need help with, the problem with giving advice is that it does not always please everyone, so there are two options,one is he stops giving advice or passing opinions, and the risk of upsetting some will also stop, or two he continues to help, and with this continues to upset some.

I know which i prefer, i find his advice invaluable.

[John Orentas]

Alastair.

 

You wrote in your reply.

 

"I do know that some moorings look a mess - if you looked at mine, you would probably find it objectionable".

 

You can hardly complain if someone takes your words more lierally than perhaps you would have liked.

[Richard Bustens]

Hi Roger

No the canals are for all three, leasure transport and living on, all three have there place and must respect each other,

 

There are rules for each diferent use.

 

You can not just pick a spot and decide this is your new home, untill you decide to move on ,you have to respect others and go to a designated area, this area you have a obligation to keep clean and tidy and not strewen with rubish etc.

 

Holliday trafic has a obligation to act in a responsible mannor, not leaving litter or broken bottles on the bank. slowing down as they pass moored boats, and generaly not causing a nuisance.

 

There is not enough transport to be concerned about but they must conform to any conditions that apply.

 

All in all the lot must get on together with there diferent requirements being allowed for, and not causing problems for anyone else.

 

And finaly each must pay the fees applicable for what they have / use, and if they feel that they should not have to pay for what they want. Mooring, Licences, insurance, repaires / maintanance etc. they should go and find somthing else.

[David Schweizer]

I don't know how old you are Roger, but there are quite a few of us here who have been around for a very long time, and if you are old enough to remember Joe and Rose Skinner working the Oxford then you must be ancient. I knew them in the 1960s and they had been retired for ten years then. They are famous because they were the last Number Ones to work their boat by Mule, but they were outlasted by almost twenty years by others, they can hardly be cedited for keeping the canals open. that credit goes to operaters like John Gould, Nicholas Hill, John Knill, Michael Streat, Leslie Morten etc.etc. all of whom operated well into the late 60's/early70's. Even BW did not disband most of their Southern Fleet until some six or seven years after the Skinners gave up, and despite many writers claiming otherwise, continued to operate five pairs of boats on the GU into the 1970's - three pairs on the Lime Juice Run and two pairs of permanently crewed Maintenance Boats

 

I crewed a Narrowboat on the GU in the 1960's and early 70's and contrary to your assurances, there were very few continuous cruisers around in those days, there were quite a few permanently moored boats in the Batchworth area, on the off side and some towards Brentford, but there were very few moored residential boats on the towpath. Yes the crews and famuilies lived on the Working Boats, but apart from two or three families, all of them kept their boats clean and tidy and they did not tie up for several weeks at a time except when ice prevented movement or when they were awaiting orders. The point I am really making is that most of the boats which moved continuously and were permanently occupied cargo carrying boats not pleasure boats, so to compare them with todays continuous cruisers and permanent moorers is inappropriate. I understand what you are trying to say Roger, but the arguement is not aided by using supporting evidence that is so wildly inaccurate, or sometimes just plain wrong.

 

Finally, like Richard, I only know John through this forum, but he is a regular contributor who has helped a lot of people with his often detailed technical advice, particulrly in the field of electrical matters, and is considered by some of us to be one of the "Elder Statesmen" on this forum. But I think he suffers from the same condition as myself, inso far as he doesn't suffer fools very gladly (if at all). I counsell you to dwell on that thought before making your next contribution.

[John Orentas]

Allow me another witter. Of course there will always be a place for residential accommodation on the waterways wether in properly organised marinas or similarly diciplined on line moorings in appropriate places. I had in mind something rather different.

 

The type of moorings which have grown up in the last few years, on the towpath side, the criteria is that it is an attractive place to make camp, handy for the shops and trains and oh yes there is a free supply of firewood all around. There is a nice wide towpath suitable for the storage of all kinds of junk and the dogs can run freely without all that fiddling around with scoops and things, walkers on the towpath can be a pest but we're tollerant.

 

This is the description of a section of the canal near my mooring but I would bet that there will not be a single reader of this, who does not recognise the scene.

 

How can we make comparisons with the present situation and the era of the working boats, the canals were built for those boats and the boat families lived on them out of economic necessity when times got hard, not because it was a cheap option, they didn't stop for more than a day or so, they couldn't afford to. Casual mooring was never allowed in the working days of the canals and any boat not paying it's way through tolls would very soon be visited by the ballifs and removed.

 

I pay many hundreds of pounds per year for my marina mooring and other fixed costs, the people I have described pay little or nothing. BW in my area do not pursue licence dodgers on the gounds that it is not cost effective, presumably it is cheaper to simply increase the fees to their captive honest customers.

 

I will be passing through the area described next weekend, I will conduct a little suryey of these attractive people and their colourfull boats that so enhance the environment for all of us. I will report back.

Edited January 5, 2005 by John Orentas

[Richard Lacy]

We have lived aboard our present boat for six years , and have been boaters for over forty years. We have tried all combinations of mooring and cruising and find our best solution is to have a long term bw leisure mooring - but move round the system all year round. It is quite easy to continuously cruise in the winter with a bit of careful study of the stoppage list , we virtually never stay in one place for more than a week unless forced to do so by outside influences, anyway we prefer to moor well away from the crowd. The only times we have witnessed any problems with liveaboards on any moorings is when someone deliberately calls attention of the authorities to the situation by doing something stupid or making it blatently obvious that they are using the boat as a house. Personally we've never had a problem.

 

Regards

 

Richard