A testing trip indeed

[GSer]

A planned trip this past weekend turned out to be a real test.

 

It all started at Woolhampton, it was the first ime i'd taken the two boats through, the swing bridge was ok but a boat moored overnight on the lock/bridge moorings made it very awkward to get the bows to turn back into the current, the natural angle of the bridge meant the bow of Apache touched the bank before the sterns cleared the swing bridge, then, with the moored boat it meant that it was all a bit of a fiddle. To be fair the guy got out and moved the boat along a bit to allow us to proceed. Getting into the locks tail was a bit of a test as well, i ended up clipping the butty on the starboard banks corner, but we got in and that was a result as the tail is narrower than the lock itself.

 

That was the end of the struggle untill we got to Newbury, called ito the greenham island service point for water and diesel, i was told tha water would be £4, and if i had been a hire boat i would be charged £10!!!, what a rip off, as i bought diesel he kidly offered to charge me just £2 for the water, lucky me! So i spent near on £300 and was still charged for water

 

Still reeling from that incident we set off towards newbury town lock, the river was flowing quite swiftly and as i was breasted up it was a big push for the old gardner to get is through the bridge, we made it though but the old girl worked very hard to get us there. Once in the lock a crowd gathered, it was saturday lunchtime, all was well untill we left the lock breasted up, we jammed between the top gates! Bugger! This was a first for me, luckily a big crowd, who were keen to help, a 'spanish windlass' and various ropes set to our advantage got her moving again, we singled out from there on. A big thanks to all that helped, all in good humour as well, much appreciated.

 

It was a great learning process, and in a weird way i enjoyed it, BUT, the next three times we got stuck between newbury and kintbury started to test me.

 

Most issues were down to poor lock condition, gates not opening were the most common but one, at hampstead marshal, the chamber is tapered, tighter at the bottom by an inch, we got stuck in there with no way of getting the pair out, we had to flood the chamber and hope they rose with the water. It worked but i'll not be putting the pair in together on the way down again!

 

All this on a very hot weekend stopped our journey short due to a total lack of enthusiasm and energy.

 

Lets hope this all gets easier, as we learn the ropes.

 

Still can't get over the cost of the water though, can they do that? Charge three different prices, none of which are advertised? Is it not like electricity, where the reseller can't make a per unit profit?

 

Paul

[Chris Pink]

Sounds like being on cross straps would have helped. Though I confess I have yet to tow a butty through Woolhampton but it's definitely easier to do twisty turns singled out.

 

Sounds like fun.

 

It is a fine degree knowing which k and a locks will take a full length pair and which won't. I simply refuse to go down Bath flight with 2 7 foot boats. Getting stuck in the quoins of the deep lock was fun.

 

But I thought they were all wider east of Newbury?

[GSer]

Sounds like being on cross straps would have helped. Though I confess I have yet to tow a butty through Woolhampton but it's definitely easier to do twisty turns singled out.

 

Sounds like fun.

 

It is a fine degree knowing which k and a locks will take a full length pair and which won't. I simply refuse to go down Bath flight with 2 7 foot boats. Getting stuck in the quoins of the deep lock was fun.

 

But I thought they were all wider east of Newbury?

 

Most locks east of newbury seem wider, but burghfield is too short for the full length boats together. Most of the issues were down to poor maintenance and no thought on some installations, on one lock the hand rail had been fitted in a way that fouled the lock gear ensuring the gate couldn't open fully!

 

Towing a butty up through woolhampton would need me to find extra crew i suppose, towing down through woolhampton is going to be another test i fear!

[alan_fincher]

What I find worrying is that Apache is presumably built to the modern trend of a 6' 10" beam, unlike the "seven foot or just over" of a GUCCCo boat like Cygnus.

 

If my assumption about Apache's beam is correct, clearly anyone with two "seven footish" working boats might experience even greater problems breasted ?

[mickspangle]

Although I've shared many locks on the K&A with another boat, I'm also aware that the 'official' dimensions of this canal are less than 70x14' but have never really thought about this anomaly

 

What size boats was the K&A originally designed to take?

[Athy]

It sounds like a frustrating trip.

What is a Spanish windlass?

[Chris Pink]

What I find worrying is that Apache is presumably built to the modern trend of a 6' 10" beam, unlike the "seven foot or just over" of a GUCCCo boat like Cygnus.

 

If my assumption about Apache's beam is correct, clearly anyone with two "seven footish" working boats might experience even greater problems breasted ?

 

Kennet and Avon has a number of different gauges the main part of the canal is 70' x 13'2".

 

Which does beg the question who decided to make it just too small to take 2 standard narrow boats.

 

And yes, a full size pair will have to single out at a number of locks. A 'mixed' pair will have difficulties at less but there's a few random ones where it will cause trouble.

[GSer]

It sounds like a frustrating trip.

What is a Spanish windlass?

 

Its a bit of a catchall name really but in this instance:-

 

Attach a rope between the boat and a good solid object, with a reasonable length in between, then either wrap a rope around the centerpoint and pull on that, this gives a little more advantage, or insert the boats short shaft half way along the line and start to wind, when the rope is taught you can also use the other mathod as well.

[Chris Pink]

Most locks east of newbury seem wider, but burghfield is too short for the full length boats together. Most of the issues were down to poor maintenance and no thought on some installations, on one lock the hand rail had been fitted in a way that fouled the lock gear ensuring the gate couldn't open fully!

 

Towing a butty up through woolhampton would need me to find extra crew i suppose, towing down through woolhampton is going to be another test i fear!

 

Two things; you can tow a butty on straps single handed easier than breasting up. Really really.

 

And the technique with some of the gates where one boat is slightly shorter or one gate won't open properly is to take one out and then pull the other boat across. This will normally work with a GU pair.

 

As I say I haven't extensively taken a pair through the eastern side but I know by bitter experience which locks will cause trouble on the western side.

 

There's one in the flight proper (37 I think but don't quote me) that is smaller than the rest.

[jelunga]

It sounds like a frustrating trip.

What is a Spanish windlass?

Take a loop of rope and connect to something at both ends. Put a pole ln the middle and twist. As the rope twists the length shortens.

[Chris Pink]

It's also easier to fit a pair into the locks one at a time as the entrance to many is where you'll get stuck.

[GSer]

It's also easier to fit a pair into the locks one at a time as the entrance to many is where you'll get stuck.

 

 

Yes i agree, after newbury i did go into locks one by one mostly BUT at one lock neither bottom gates opened fully, onegate only stuck out by perhaps an inch, that allowed the butty to enter well over halfway before jamming, the shallow angle helped ensure it was locked firmly, and the river below stopped any attempt the pull it back out

 

I'm convinced alot of this is just down to lack of experience on my part, its a steep learning curve indeed, i know more now than i did friday and i'll say the same next week i suppose.

 

Going down through woolhampton on cross straps will probably be the only way down for me but i still havn't decided how i can stop the rig in a tidy manner.

[twbm]

Having looked at the metered charges for my local area, a cubic meter of water costs £1.10 in to the premises and on the assumption that it also flows out of the same place attracts £2.80 sewerage, plus standing charges so a 'typical' bow or underfloor water tank could well cost in excess of £3 to fill - there's no way to allow for the fact that you're going to release the water into the canal. You'll know how big your tank is, but the fact is that water is now at a price that means it has to be factored in to a business's running costs.

 

Going down through woolhampton on cross straps will probably be the only way down for me but i still havn't decided how i can stop the rig in a tidy manner.

 

How many crew?

[Chris Pink]

Quick answer is you can't but it ain't going anywhere. It just ends up looking untidy.

 

Every lock, in my experience, has a different technique.

 

The 'one gate won't open'. Going in take the motor in, and when you put it in reverse push it across the chamber behind the gate that won't open so the butty has a straight run (it will push to bows of the motor across).

 

I see you say both gates didn't open. There's not much you can do there.

 

Our mantra 'nobody has ever been stuck for a year'

[bristol & argo]

A planned trip this past weekend turned out to be a real test.

 

snip the test of patience....

 

All this on a very hot weekend stopped our journey short due to a total lack of enthusiasm and energy.

 

Lets hope this all gets easier, as we learn the ropes.

 

Still can't get over the cost of the water though, can they do that? Charge three different prices, none of which are advertised? Is it not like electricity, where the reseller can't make a per unit profit?

 

Paul

 

Ah, i guess the K&A has not improved. You have discovered exactly the reason we ended up leaving...

I wasn't expecting you to get stuck in Hampstead Marshall, i think the only thing you need to look out for heading west now is the walkway across the inside of crofton lock bottom gates.

 

going down woolhampton - walk the butty down and through the swing bridge leaving her on the bollards, then take the motor through and breast back up on the bollards - where the current through the bridge will help you if you tie the sterns together first.

 

Greenham island services has always charged for water, as they are on a meter, so there is a real cost to them. They used to have an honesty box for anyone doing a splash and dash out of hours.

 

As Mr P says - put Cygnus on cross straps - with her tiller lashed midship, then you only get stuck where the gates are really obstructed. The law of sod says it will always be the one infront of the motor, going down hill, so there is no way to squeeze out.

 

Just don't plan to get anywhere at any particular time, how are you finding the depth?

 

 

Simon.

 

edit to add - there are people around who can be booked for extra crew. . . . .

Edited May 29, 2012 by bristol & argo

[GSer]

 

How many crew?

 

Just me and the better half.

 

Just don't plan to get anywhere at any particular time, how are you finding the depth?

 

 

 

 

Depth is great so far, plenty of water and some recent dredging has helped. Plenty of news that water is short the other side of the summit though.

 

 

I don't mind paying for water it was the variable cost that peeved me a little.

 

Paul

[Martin Megson]

A planned trip this past weekend turned out to be a real test.

 

It all started at Woolhampton, it was the first ime i'd taken the two boats through, the swing bridge was ok but a boat moored overnight on the lock/bridge moorings made it very awkward to get the bows to turn back into the current, the natural angle of the bridge meant the bow of Apache touched the bank before the sterns cleared the swing bridge, then, with the moored boat it meant that it was all a bit of a fiddle. To be fair the guy got out and moved the boat along a bit to allow us to proceed. Getting into the locks tail was a bit of a test as well, i ended up clipping the butty on the starboard banks corner, but we got in and that was a result as the tail is narrower than the lock itself.

 

That was the end of the struggle untill we got to Newbury, called ito the greenham island service point for water and diesel, i was told tha water would be £4, and if i had been a hire boat i would be charged £10!!!, what a rip off, as i bought diesel he kidly offered to charge me just £2 for the water, lucky me! So i spent near on £300 and was still charged for water

 

Still reeling from that incident we set off towards newbury town lock, the river was flowing quite swiftly and as i was breasted up it was a big push for the old gardner to get is through the bridge, we made it though but the old girl worked very hard to get us there. Once in the lock a crowd gathered, it was saturday lunchtime, all was well untill we left the lock breasted up, we jammed between the top gates! Bugger! This was a first for me, luckily a big crowd, who were keen to help, a 'spanish windlass' and various ropes set to our advantage got her moving again, we singled out from there on. A big thanks to all that helped, all in good humour as well, much appreciated.

 

It was a great learning process, and in a weird way i enjoyed it, BUT, the next three times we got stuck between newbury and kintbury started to test me.

 

Most issues were down to poor lock condition, gates not opening were the most common but one, at hampstead marshal, the chamber is tapered, tighter at the bottom by an inch, we got stuck in there with no way of getting the pair out, we had to flood the chamber and hope they rose with the water. It worked but i'll not be putting the pair in together on the way down again!

 

All this on a very hot weekend stopped our journey short due to a total lack of enthusiasm and energy.

 

Lets hope this all gets easier, as we learn the ropes.

 

Still can't get over the cost of the water though, can they do that? Charge three different prices, none of which are advertised? Is it not like electricity, where the reseller can't make a per unit profit?

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

You may recall we met when I came through Woolhampton on my 55ft boat. I fully agree that the state of the locks and some swing bridges between Newbury and Kintbury are a pain. Swing bridges that don't swing and lock gates that don't stay closed. Well done on making the trip, I don't envy you taking a pair up there.

[Gillie]

When we first got the boat stopping at Newbury for fuel, a pump-out, and pearls of Wisdom from Pete was always a pleasure. It does appear to be putting profit before service these days. I think the saddest thing is using the winding hole for moorings. It was always fun to turn there, even with moored boats opposite, but having to wind below the lock is not good. Sadly as Tipton never goes below Bedwyn there is just no competition.

Yesterday Oxford Narrowboats at Heyford were charging £1.16 for fuel. This morning we got some at Aynho for 92p and then at Banbury saw some at 88p.

Have seen a couple of places charging for water but they say its free if you buy fuel or gas.

 

We have got stuck in Newbury town lock a couple of times and there is always an audience!

 

But despite all your problems I think you are a hero for taking a pair through Woolhampton, I find one boat quite hard enough. Did you take the pair onto the Thames or just Apache, and how did you do High bridge in Reading? I very nearly messed it up, I thought there was not much flow so got complacent and totally under-estimated the sideways push into the Arch.....had to use a lot of black smoke to get the back through!

A couple of the Thames locks had a fair bit of flow too.

...........Dave (oops signed in as Gillie today)

[GSer]

When we first got the boat stopping at Newbury for fuel, a pump-out, and pearls of Wisdom from Pete was always a pleasure. It does appear to be putting profit before service these days. I think the saddest thing is using the winding hole for moorings. It was always fun to turn there, even with moored boats opposite, but having to wind below the lock is not good. Sadly as Tipton never goes below Bedwyn there is just no competition.

Yesterday Oxford Narrowboats at Heyford were charging £1.16 for fuel. This morning we got some at Aynho for 92p and then at Banbury saw some at 88p.

Have seen a couple of places charging for water but they say its free if you buy fuel or gas.

 

We have got stuck in Newbury town lock a couple of times and there is always an audience!

 

But despite all your problems I think you are a hero for taking a pair through Woolhampton, I find one boat quite hard enough. Did you take the pair onto the Thames or just Apache, and how did you do High bridge in Reading? I very nearly messed it up, I thought there was not much flow so got complacent and totally under-estimated the sideways push into the Arch.....had to use a lot of black smoke to get the back through!

A couple of the Thames locks had a fair bit of flow too.

...........Dave (oops signed in as Gillie today)

 

Hi Dave or perhaps it's Gillie now

 

Took them both on the Thames it was fine really, High Bridge needs concentration too fast and the stern scrapes the bridge too slow and you lose steerage, I was breasted up and made sure the bows were as far right as I could go and made sure I was fast enough to get some steerage, I also made sure Jeanette was steering the Butty as well i'm not to sure if it helped but it did no harm

 

Have a great trip

 

Paul

 

ps Intervieved a new crew member on Monday, he seemed up for the job but is a bit young at 4 weeks, make sure you get back early enough to see him as a puppy, Sophie will love him, small, furry and moves about alot just what a long dog like to play with

Edited May 30, 2012 by GSer

[Gillie]

New crew member sounds great..

We will be back October(ish) and Sophie says she can't wait to play with Spike & Mallet?!!...

she also says her favourite place to play round and round the mulberry bush with Spike is Hungerford..but anywhere will do!!

 

Was it Spike waking us up the other day clambering around on our back deck at 5.30am??!!

 

The lock gates on the K & A might not close properly but at least I can wind the mechanisms..here on the Oxford they are SO stiff I have no chance!

 

I think you are a hero too taking the pair through Woolhampton!!

 

(Gillie now )

Edited May 30, 2012 by Gillie