Vegetarian Pies

[bargemast]

I wouldn't expect anyone to change their choice of lifestyle, or diet, based on my musings.

 

I think the label "vegetarian" (or "carnivore") leads one to expect rules.

 

There are no rules, only choices, though I believe eating domestic pets and cannibalism is frowned upon, in our unenlightened society.

 

I'll be eating a meat free quiche with a baked potato and salad, this evening.

 

 

That would be something I could enjoy too, so in advance for tonight, I wish you "Bon Appétit" Carl.

 

Peter.

[Guest]

I wouldn't expect anyone to change their choice of lifestyle, or diet, based on my musings.

 

I think the label "vegetarian" (or "carnivore") leads one to expect rules.

 

There are no rules, only choices, though I believe eating domestic pets and cannibalism is frowned upon, in our unenlightened society.

 

I'll be eating a meat free quiche with a baked potato and salad, this evening.

 

I agree with this 100% - I like food (if you'd ever met me you would know this) - but I will happily eat most things if it tastes nice if it's veggie hey ho if it's meat ditto.

 

I do however feel it can be difficult sometimes to satisfy ones self that the animal welfare side of things is adequately catered for (poss bad choice of words) - I would like to do more even though I do enjoy eating them....(Sounds callous but at the end of the day that is what we are doing)

[carlt]

I do however feel it can be difficult sometimes to satisfy ones self that the animal welfare side of things is adequately catered for (poss bad choice of words) - I would like to do more even though I do enjoy eating them....(Sounds callous but at the end of the day that is what we are doing)

I know exactly which farm all the meat I eat comes from (and all less than 20 miles from home) as is the case with most of the veg I eat (fruit is a bit trickier).

 

All the animals are either game or free range and are fed no hormones or additives.

 

The cost is, I believe, comparable with the supermarket rubbish, especially considering the recent price hikes.

 

I find it far easier to combine a walk in the country with a trip to my favourite farm shops, or a visit to the farmer's market, than fighting the trolleys in the supermarkets.

 

Edited to add: I must admit that I have no idea which farm the (organic) Swedish meatballs, that my sons are addicted to, come from and just trust that the organic status is an assurance of the welfare of the donor beasts.

Edited April 30, 2012 by carlt

[Chertsey]

 

 

Vegetarianism has an adverse effect on the environment that is rarely explored and I choose to explore it just like many vegetarians choose to discuss their reasons for their diet.

That's an interesting claim Carl but I do wonder how it stacks up. Yes, I can see there's an argument for eating sheep, goats etc that can graze otherwise unuseable land. But can that really balance out the destruction of vast swathes of rainforest and arable land, and the use of scarce water and increased pollution attendant upon massive-scale beef production?

 

Yes it would be great if we all ate the sort of meat you do, but that is an option available to relatively few worldwide, and taken up by even fewer.

 

I am not comparing with lacto-vegetarianism by the way as IMO factory dairy farming is as damaging as factory meat farming.

 

I don't think either that most supermarket beef comes from ex-dairy cows. They would be far too old and tough for anything except pet food and the sort of processed meat products I doubt you'd touch with a bargepole. Although I am not defending lacto-vegetarianism (see above).

[alan_fincher]

I shudder at the thought of everyone turning vegetarian and the huge negative effect that would have on the environment.

 

One also wonders how well the animals would be treated if they no longer had any value, as food (considering the way the Mink farmers treated their animals, when they became worthless).

 

A cow has a natural lifespan of over 30 years and I can't see there being retirement homes being set up for them, if they are no longer going to be slaughtered for food, especially as there would be no room for them on our tiny island, when it is turned into a food factory, all the valuable pasture habitat turned over to sterile food crop production.

 

My meat lives in the same place where I walk my dogs or go to watch wildlife. I tend to avoid the food factories, carpeted with grain crops or oilseed rape.

 

Meat eaters maintain the meadows and pasture fields. If we didn't exist neither would they.

 

 

I'm having a discussion. There was no malice in my observation, it was merely an observation and we parted as friends, as always.

 

Vegetarianism has an adverse effect on the environment that is rarely explored and I choose to explore it just like many vegetarians choose to discuss their reasons for their diet.

This is all fairly familiar territorty for you Carl, and I certainly remember trying to have a discussion with you on it in the past.

 

When my OH spoke out for a rather different view back then, for example here or here, you chose not to carry on the debate, which is a shame, as she really has spent a lot of time over many years looking at the arguments, and trying to look at fact rather than more knee-jerk reactions.

 

To me the following is a very strong argument, although that is of course not to say there are no counter arguments.

 

However, one of the reasons that I originally became a vegetarian is that eating further down the food chain is less demanding on resources. I need a certain amount of protein to live, I can get that from sources closer to plant based, which means that my protein is produced more efficiently than if it first passes through a meat machine. For example, three hectares can produce either one tonne of beef (16% - 40% protein) or between 50 and 100 tonnes of grains (protein content of wheat 16%), pulses (soybeans ~40%) (peanuts 24% - 28%) and vegetables.

 

If my protein is produced more efficiently, then there is more protein for others, and, according to Scientific American, it is 'greener'.

 

Years ago I read that to produce 1 kg of beef protein, the cattle have to eat 10 kg of vegetable protein. It isn't arable farming that destroys forests - it's animal husbandry.