Advice needed to change bubble oil stove

[lesrollins]

Hello to all

We have recently sold the house and brought a narrowboat been on it for about five weeks now and enjoying it. Can anyone help regarding a fire change.

 

At the moment we are running a bubble oil stove which puts out about 4kw, radiators and hot water is supplied by a mikuni boiler and the engine also supplies the hot water.

The mikuni is situated in the back with the engine there are two pipes {flow and return} from the boiler which then come into the galley and then are tee d off down both sides of the boat, one side as 4 radiators with there own flow and return the other side provides two towel radiators and the califior again with there own flow and return.

 

The question.

I would like to take out the corner bubble oil stove and replace it with a corner bubble multistove with a back boiler which puts out about 5kw.

Would I be able to take the flow and return from the closest radiator to the fire and connect them to the backboiler on the fire.

Will the fire run 6 radiators okay

Would I need to put a seperate 12v pump in the circuit. I could close the flow and return pipes to the boiler, it would still provide a circuit because of the way it as been tee d off when it enters the galley. The header tank is in a cupboard in the galley so would not be effected if i closed the pipes to the boiler.

If I had to fit another 12v pump how would it be effected if I neede to use the mikuni boiler.

 

Thanks

[jelunga]

Hello to all

We have recently sold the house and brought a narrowboat been on it for about five weeks now and enjoying it. Can anyone help regarding a fire change.

 

At the moment we are running a bubble oil stove which puts out about 4kw, radiators and hot water is supplied by a mikuni boiler and the engine also supplies the hot water.

The mikuni is situated in the back with the engine there are two pipes {flow and return} from the boiler which then come into the galley and then are tee d off down both sides of the boat, one side as 4 radiators with there own flow and return the other side provides two towel radiators and the califior again with there own flow and return.

 

The question.

I would like to take out the corner bubble oil stove and replace it with a corner bubble multistove with a back boiler which puts out about 5kw.

Would I be able to take the flow and return from the closest radiator to the fire and connect them to the backboiler on the fire.

Will the fire run 6 radiators okay

Would I need to put a seperate 12v pump in the circuit. I could close the flow and return pipes to the boiler, it would still provide a circuit because of the way it as been tee d off when it enters the galley. The header tank is in a cupboard in the galley so would not be effected if i closed the pipes to the boiler.

If I had to fit another 12v pump how would it be effected if I neede to use the mikuni boiler.

 

Thanks

We run a non back boiler bubble and an Eberspacher for rads and hot water.

I do not think it would work to put a bubble with back boiler in the current heating circuit. You would not get gravity circulation and would need a pump to circulate the central heating water. It woukd also prob not heat your domestic water either depending on pipe work. You could not isolate the back boiler and run it just as a room heater without an explosion.

I do not think the Miki would be happy either.

Just my view. I am not a plumber ir expert.

Another may be along soon with better advice.

Also look atHaworth Heatings web site for advice. They make and sell the bubble. .

Edited April 18, 2012 by jelunga

[mrsmelly]

 

Another may be along soon with better advice.

 

 

Yup....and it goes like this. GET A SOLID FUEL STOVE........

 

Tim

[jelunga]

Yup....and it goes like this. GET A SOLID FUEL STOVE........

 

Tim

Sorry. Cannot agree with you on this. As I have previously said, not everybody wants the dirt and dust of solid fuel and the coal/coke/wood stowed all over the place.

Some people, like us, want the ease of lighting, the lack of dust and grime and the neatness of fuel storage.

Cost is not everything. Whilst my Bubble may be a little more expensive to run, in the deprhs of winter J can afford the £2 per day it costs me

 

Neer di ner ner.

[mrsmelly]

Sorry. Cannot agree with you on this. As I have previously said, not everybody wants the dirt and dust of solid fuel and the coal/coke/wood stowed all over the place.

Some people, like us, want the ease of lighting, the lack of dust and grime and the neatness of fuel storage.

Cost is not everything. Whilst my Bubble may be a little more expensive to run, in the deprhs of winter J can afford the £2 per day it costs me

 

Neer di ner ner.

 

I was waiting for your comeback response Now thats ok we will have to beg to differ on this one, I'll put it down to my twenty odd winters of experience as to my attitude Just a thought though honestly you say 2 squid a day to run that means you either turn it off during the night when its minus god knows what temperature or your device at say 1 pound a litre only uses 1 litre per 12 hours ? is this just maybe a tad optomistic or do I realy have to consider buying one of those contraptions

 

Tim

 

Ps when you back for a beer ?

[Ex- Member]

Hello to all

We have recently sold the house and brought a narrowboat been on it for about five weeks now and enjoying it. Can anyone help regarding a fire change.

 

At the moment we are running a bubble oil stove which puts out about 4kw, radiators and hot water is supplied by a mikuni boiler and the engine also supplies the hot water.

The mikuni is situated in the back with the engine there are two pipes {flow and return} from the boiler which then come into the galley and then are tee d off down both sides of the boat, one side as 4 radiators with there own flow and return the other side provides two towel radiators and the califior again with there own flow and return.

 

The question.

I would like to take out the corner bubble oil stove and replace it with a corner bubble multistove with a back boiler which puts out about 5kw.

Would I be able to take the flow and return from the closest radiator to the fire and connect them to the backboiler on the fire.

Will the fire run 6 radiators okay

Would I need to put a seperate 12v pump in the circuit. I could close the flow and return pipes to the boiler, it would still provide a circuit because of the way it as been tee d off when it enters the galley. The header tank is in a cupboard in the galley so would not be effected if i closed the pipes to the boiler.

If I had to fit another 12v pump how would it be effected if I neede to use the mikuni boiler.

 

Thanks

 

It can be done, at the end of the day you're just putting a new boiler in a different location. Of course you need to get the pipework right.

 

We run a corner bubble stove with back boiler, we currently run a 240 volt circulation pump but a 12 v pump will be fitted soon. We run 3 small rads and 2 medium, they do get nice and hot but takes a good hours running to get there. Our system is "pressurised" as I call it. An accumulator tank or expansion tank is fitted in line and the pump is fitted between the accumulator and boiler. The system runs at 1 bar. You won't need a header tank it's a sealed system, there's a safety valve that needs fitting to the accumulator and an air release valve on the boiler. the system works really well and we have a wide beam, even on low on not too cold an evening it gets too hot and we end up opening a door.

 

Have a look at this link it explains the sealed system.

 

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

[jelunga]

I was waiting for your comeback response Now thats ok we will have to beg to differ on this one, I'll put it down to my twenty odd winters of experience as to my attitude Just a thought though honestly you say 2 squid a day to run that means you either turn it off during the night when its minus god knows what temperature or your device at say 1 pound a litre only uses 1 litre per 12 hours ? is this just maybe a tad optomistic or do I realy have to consider buying one of those contraptions

 

Tim

 

Ps when you back for a beer ?

TBH we did turn it off overnight when asleep. So it prob ran from 0730 to 2130 on average, some 14 hrs per day. We have a 2kw convector on a time switch to come on at 0530 to take chill off and also haed it on frost setting.

Plus the elec bkanket overnight. These additions are safer and cheaper than the oil stove

 

We aim to be back at Sawley Sunday week although current weather is not encouraging movement.

[RobinJ]

The question.

I would like to take out the corner bubble oil stove and replace it with a corner bubble multistove with a back boiler which puts out about 5kw.

Would I be able to take the flow and return from the closest radiator to the fire and connect them to the backboiler on the fire.

Will the fire run 6 radiators okay

Would I need to put a seperate 12v pump in the circuit. I could close the flow and return pipes to the boiler, it would still provide a circuit because of the way it as been tee d off when it enters the galley. The header tank is in a cupboard in the galley so would not be effected if i closed the pipes to the boiler.

If I had to fit another 12v pump how would it be effected if I neede to use the mikuni boiler.

I cannot see why (possibly with the exception of the towel radiators) why you would need to run the radiators as well as the stove, since once it is warmed up, the radiators aren't doing a lot!

But - I also cannot see why you cannot have two heat sources supplying a heating circuit (especially if they both have pumps), since the radiators designed to radiate the heat will work for both when pumped the right way round! The pumps themselves should stop the heat escaping into the non operational source, that might be where the problems lies, as they should probably not be run at the same time!

[lesrollins]

Sorry. Cannot agree with you on this. As I have previously said, not everybody wants the dirt and dust of solid fuel and the coal/coke/wood stowed all over the place.

Some people, like us, want the ease of lighting, the lack of dust and grime and the neatness of fuel storage.

Cost is not everything. Whilst my Bubble may be a little more expensive to run, in the deprhs of winter J can afford the £2 per day it costs me

 

Since owning the boat I have kept some costings on its running etc.

 

On the 16th march the front tank supplying the fire was full on the 6th april I put 74 litres in the tank at a cost of 0.84 a litre domestic rate. This equates to 74 x 0.84 = £62.16 which divided over the time given in this case 20 days comes to £3.10 a day or £21.70 a week. I cannot remember if the fire run everyday but it ran most days from 6.30pm until about 7.00pm so around 11 1/2 hours. It is usually kept on settings between 1 and 3 just to keep the chill off the air but the rear galley is always cold even with the dividing doors open, the boat is 70ft. Don,t get me wrong if it is running full bore it gets to hot but I should imagine running it like this in the depths of winter would cost a fortune as I don,t feel that settings 1 to 3 would be of much use in a bad winter So I think it would cost a little more than £2.00 a day to keep warm. Thats why I am going to change it before next winter.

 

I cannot see why (possibly with the exception of the towel radiators) why you would need to run the radiators as well as the stove, since once it is warmed up, the radiators aren't doing a lot!

But - I also cannot see why you cannot have two heat sources supplying a heating circuit (especially if they both have pumps), since the radiators designed to radiate the heat will work for both when pumped the right way round! The pumps themselves should stop the heat escaping into the non operational source, that might be where the problems lies, as they should probably not be run at the same time!

 

My idea was that it could provide hot water and if connected to the rads the fire would not have to be ablaze all the time perhaps just ticking over because the rads would provide some warmth thru the boat. I have not had a hard winter in a boat yet so I don,t know what to expect.

 

How much battery consumption would a 12v pump use.

Would it help if I uploaded a diagram of the system I have in use at the moment.

 

Cheers

Edited April 19, 2012 by lesrollins

[RobinJ]

How much battery consumption would a 12v pump use.

It would depend on the type of pump, some no more than a light.

A temperature controlled one might use less?

Manual control is probably not practical, as at some stage the water in the fire would start to boil!

[lesrollins]

What size kw multi fuel fire would i need on a 70ft narrowboat and are there any goods brands to go for and any to stay away from.

[mrsmelly]

What size kw multi fuel fire would i need on a 70ft narrowboat and are there any goods brands to go for and any to stay away from.

 

The standard squirrell is about 5kw and will keep a 70 footer toasty without the need of rads providing it is well insulated and if it has bus windows there are nice heavy curtains fitted, obviously boat portholes are much better as they do not have the large glass surface area to lose heat from wether double glazed or not.

 

Tim