What's wrong with this picture?

[nbtafelberg]

Ok...

 

My radiators don't work

 

Below is the boiler/gas boiler/plumbing set up - the Aldi Boiler is blocked off by two valves so its not connected to the main system.

 

The stove's back boiler (down the other end of the boat) is linked via radiators to this set up.

 

There appears to be NO air in the system.

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

[gwinsk]

It looks pretty much the same as the one I'm replacing. Mine had hot water inputs both from the Morso backboiler and from the engine coolant. From the lagging and presence of the immersion heater, I suspect it to be a domestic hot water cistern.

On most trips it initially failed to heat the water. Once working, it was fine. In our case it was ingress of air to the line taking hot water from engine to calorifier and cured, each trip, by disconnecting the vertical hot in pipe and topping up with water, to expel air. To try to overcome the problem, also to reduce expanded coolant water spill, from the integral engine header, we fitted a coolant header tank, just below the engine room roof. It cured the spill but not the air ingress.

I've bitten the bullet and am having a proper marine horizontal calorifier fitted, to be located below the double bed. Friends with that setup don't seem to have the problem. There is also said to be a question over the abillity of a domestic cistern to withstand narrow boat pressures. Wouldn't know about that though.

Gerry Winskill

[stuart]

  I've bitten the bullet and am having a proper marine horizontal calorifier fitted, to be located below the double bed. Friends with that setup don't seem to have the problem. There is also said to be a question over the abillity of a domestic cistern to withstand narrow boat pressures. Wouldn't know about that though.

Gerry Winskill

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you already have space for a vertical calorifier then stick with that as they should be more efficient that the horizontal ones - heat rises and all that. They should cool slower than a horizontal tank.

[stuart]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is that twin and earth cable I spot in the picture too? (lower right) Naughty Naughty!

[nbtafelberg]

Ok Folks

 

Yes it is a twin and earth but that is what came with the bolin pump, I don't use the earth as its 12 volts obviously.

 

Now then the latest is that I think the top pipe was full of air, I turned on the feed to the GAS boiler, the gas boiler made a load of racket and that put water through it.

 

I'm pretty sure now thats cleared, I'm right now bleeding the back boiler on the stove which seems to be very full of air.

 

The pipes are heating up now but its been pumping out air for a long time.

[Big COL]

Paul

 

Not enough info

 

1 Is the pump on the flow/return?

 

2 Are you running stove and boiler

Edited December 3, 2004 by Big COL

[nbtafelberg]

Hi Colin

 

Ok

 

We have a stove and a Aldi Boiler, the Aldi Boiler is NOT in the curcuit at the moment (blocked off with valves).

 

The morso stove has a back boiler.

 

The pump is a BOLIN pump and I'm not sure if its on the send or return, does it make a difference?

[Big COL]

Paul

 

You will not be able to run both stove and boiler together as you will have opposing flows, the boiler will be able to work on its own with the stove not lit, if you want to use the stove I suggest you fit a by pass pipe infront of the boiler. this was covered in a post in the last month. If you are only using the stove for space heating then by pass the stove ie link flow and return, drain the stove and leave the stoves boiler connections open

[nbtafelberg]

Yup thats what I've done

 

The Aldi Boiler is blocked off by valves from the main curcuit. Incedentally I can run the heating on gas with no problems.

 

so we've got

 

 

STOVE ---------------RADIATORS----------------| -- ALDI BOILER

|-------------------------------------------------| --|

 

 

 

The Aldi boiler is not connected to the system right now.

Edited December 3, 2004 by clevett

[Big COL]

Yup thats what I've done

 

The Aldi Boiler is blocked off by valves from the main curcuit. Incedentally I can run the heating on gas with no problems.

 

so we've got

STOVE ---------------RADIATORS----------------|  -- ALDI BOILER

    |-------------------------------------------------|  --|

The Aldi boiler is not connected to the system right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Big COL]

Paul

 

you can run the heating on the aldi but not with the stove lit?

 

if you are using the stove and the pump is part of the aldi bypass the pump must run the in the correct direction or you will be pumping against the stoves boiler flow

Edited December 3, 2004 by Big COL

[nbtafelberg]

No - the Aldi Boiler is currently not connected to the system at all.

[Big COL]

Paul

 

is the pump going in the correct direction the circuit should be out of the top of the stoves boiler through the rads through the pump back to the bottom connection on the stoves boiler the pump should keep the water running in this direction. so the flow from the stove is the inlet to the pump and the outlet from the pump is the return to the stove

Edited December 3, 2004 by Big COL

[nbtafelberg]

Hi Colin (and thanks very much for answering my questions! :-) )

 

Ok just as an experiment I just swapped the direction of the pump so I'll see if it makes any difference. ....

 

Should I bleed the rads?

[nbtafelberg]

ok swapped the pump - nothing - so I opened the valve on the back of the stove boiler - lots of air then water then the pipes start getting warm near the stove.

 

Does it matter where the pump is? The pump is at the other end of the boat from the stove - this is really to do with logistics (i.e. easy supply of 12v) and the fact that the only other place I could put the pump is on the back of the stove.

Edited December 3, 2004 by clevett

[John Orentas]

Just as an aside here, I know very little about plumbing systems. I keep seeing suggestions to reverse the direction of the pump, does that mean take the pump off and turn it round or reverse the electrical polarity.

 

If it is the latter then surley these are centrifrugal pumps and if so the the flow can't be reversed simply by reversing the rotation !

 

Just curious.

 

John Squeers.

[nbtafelberg]

Yes thats true it could be in the wrong place - it wouldn't be too dificult for me to move it - I just need to get another corner bit.

 

You can see the bolin pump in the picture the pipe goes into it from the left and then down...

[dor]

Shouldn't matter where in the circuit the pump is, but as John says, many pumps are centrifugal so need to check it is installed the right way round. If wired the wrong way, they will still sort of work, but not very well.

 

It is important to bleed system properly though, and a good idea is to have a short vertical pipe teed off just behind the outlet from the back-boiler with a vent in it. You can get special caps that are a bit like a stop-end but with a vent screw in it. Can't quite make out exactly what is going where, but it looks to me as if you could do with a vent on the pipe in your picture that goes up, across and down.

 

Funny things central heating systems: common sense tells you that the pump should just push the water round, and then a little bubble of air stops everything.

[nbtafelberg]

Ok here's what i'm gonna do...

 

I'm going to go get another corner piece and move the pump to the top pipe.

 

I'll let you know how it goes.

[Big COL]

Paul/John

 

 

The pumps are directional there is usually an arrow on the outlet showing the direction of flow. polarity needs also to be correct as Dor said it will still run, but not work very well

[Big COL]

Paul

 

Have some more info.

 

On a bolin pump the water inlet is directly under the motor, and the outlet is at right angles to the motor, the polarity is as you would expect, red- positive, blue-negative. Sorry I had to leave you at lunch time, had an emergency at work.

[DHutch]

so we've got

STOVE ---------------RADIATORS----------------|  -- ALDI BOILER

    |-------------------------------------------------|  --|

 

so water is in a closed loop, going from the aldi (or the bypass) on to the morso, then though the radiators? - or the other way round?

 

- where does the hot water cylider fit in?

 

- where abouts in the system is the pump?

 

becuase i have tryed to under stand, but i still cant figure out what you trying to do, how whats conected to what, and where you keep moving the pump to!!

 

 

daniel

[nbtafelberg]

OK after a trip to homebase I've moved the pump up to the send. The water flow is NOT marked on the pump however I have a hunch that it is working.

 

As you said it won't work very well backwards, the pipes were just warm when I got back but the fire was really going.

 

When I swapped the pump up to the other pipe (changed the direction) the water immediatley started flowing through the system... I know that because good old homebase connector was leaking.

 

Anyway - I'm just waiting for the fire to come up again and then I'll post back but I think its solved - problem was the pump in the wrong place (i.e. going the wrong direction).

 

our 2 kids are going to be lovely and warm now (my wife and I also!)...thanks to you all

 

I'll let you know what happens.

Edited December 3, 2004 by clevett

[Big COL]

Paul

 

 

Fingers crossed

[timboharticus]

Generally speaking a central heating pump should be at the point of lowest pressure in the system. This avoids any areas of negative pressure which may cause air to be sucked in.

 

I would put the pump on the low level return to a boiler.