how long can you stay

[Wishihadaname]

What is the guidance the?

[mayalld]

The question was about liveaboards what laws relate to them.

 

Yes, I am aware of that. The 1968 Transport act specifically refers to recreational use, so it distinguishes based on the use to which a boat is put.

 

The 1995 BW act distinguishes based upon home mooring.

 

There is no perfect correlation between CC and liveaboard.

 

What is the guidance the?

This guidance

[romarni123]

And what would recreational and leisure be classed as,do they have a specific list to make a boater fit in this category.

[RLWP]

And what would recreational and leisure be classed as,do they have a specific list to make a boater fit in this category.

 

Without reading through the bye-laws again, I don't think that BW recognise that there is such a person as a liveaboard.

 

Richard

Edited January 4, 2011 by RLWP

[mayalld]

And what would recreational and leisure be classed as,do they have a specific list to make a boater fit in this category.

 

I believe that any good dictionary would assist here.

[romarni123]

I don't claim that they are second class citizens.

 

I merely claim (and do so with facts to support my claim) that the legislation governing BW requires them to favour leisure interests on cruising waterways over the interests of liveaboard boaters. Liveaboards are welcome, but they must accept that the way moorings are managed will often be sub-optimal for their needs, because they are rightly optimised for leisure users, as required by the act.

Can you show me this bit of legislation where the act favours leisure interests over liveaboards,as BW I am told do not recognise liveaboards

[cotswoldsman]

Yes, I am aware of that. The 1968 Transport act specifically refers to recreational use, so it distinguishes based on the use to which a boat is put.

 

The 1995 BW act distinguishes based upon home mooring.

 

There is no perfect correlation between CC and liveaboard.

 

 

 

So someone that CC for say 9 months and leaves boat on winter mooring for 3 months is a leisure boater?

What is someone who has a house and that is their registered home and then decides to cc for 12 months a year?

In fact what is a liveaboard? Someone that cruises for say 7 months a year are they not a liveaboard for 7 months a year and a non liveaboard for 5 months?

[romarni123]

So someone that CC for say 9 months and leaves boat on winter mooring for 3 months is a leisure boater?

What is someone who has a house and that is their registered home and then decides to cc for 12 months a year?

In fact what is a liveaboard? Someone that cruises for say 7 months a year are they not a liveaboard for 7 months a year and a non liveaboard for 5 months?

I think we should have our own group, people of leisure who use our boats for recreational purposes but live on them.

[RLWP]

<snip>

What is someone who has a house and that is their registered home and then decides to cc for 12 months a year?

<snip>

 

I don't know, What is someone who has a house and that is their registered home and then decides to cc for 12 months a year? This had better have a good punchline...

 

Richard

[blodger]

That is exactly why the time period will hopefully be reduced. There is no need to leave a boat on a prime visitors site for days between useage as people moving around the system then cannot stop there. There are many many places to leave a boat between weekends within a mile either side of so called honey pot moorings, leaving a boat at a hot spot when not in use can be quite selfish, unless of course a genuine disability may need to be taken into account.

Everybody uses their boats in different ways though it is possible to group under like usage. I do not think it is selfish to use your boat in a permissable manner that fits in with your useage. I think it is inappropriate to change the 'rules' specifically to disadvantage one type of user and favour others, unless for disability accommodation

[romarni123]

I don't know, What is someone who has a house and that is their registered home and then decides to cc for 12 months a year? This had better have a good punchline...

 

Richard

Well off

[cotswoldsman]

I don't know, What is someone who has a house and that is their registered home and then decides to cc for 12 months a year? This had better have a good punchline...

 

Richard

 

 

I think we should have our own group, people of leisure who use our boats for recreational purposes but live on them.

 

Oh no that might be 3rd class citizen and we would not be allowed to moor anywhere!!!!!!

[mayalld]

Can you show me this bit of legislation where the act favours leisure interests over liveaboards,as BW I am told do not recognise liveaboards

 

Yes, I have already quoted it. Transport Act 1968 requires them to maintain the cruising waterways principally for recreational use.

 

I don't know who told you that BW don't recognise liveaboards, but it is simply untrue.

[romarni123]

 

 

 

Oh no that might be 3rd class citizen and we would not be allowed to moor anywhere!!!!!!

[mayalld]

So someone that CC for say 9 months and leaves boat on winter mooring for 3 months is a leisure boater?

What is someone who has a house and that is their registered home and then decides to cc for 12 months a year?

In fact what is a liveaboard? Someone that cruises for say 7 months a year are they not a liveaboard for 7 months a year and a non liveaboard for 5 months?

 

Provided that they have a house that they can return to immediately (not let out), then their use of the boat would inded be leisure.

 

As soon as they lack the ability to immediately return to a land based home, and the boat becomes their only home, their use of the boat ceases to be leisure.

[Chris Pink]

Yes, I have already quoted it. Transport Act 1968 requires them to maintain the cruising waterways principally for recreational use.

 

I don't know who told you that BW don't recognise liveaboards, but it is simply untrue.

 

 

Reference please Dave, there is no mention in any of the waterway acts about liveaboards that are not houseboats.

[romarni123]

Yes, I have already quoted it. Transport Act 1968 requires them to maintain the cruising waterways principally for recreational use.

 

I don't know who told you that BE don't recognise liveaboards, but it is simply untrue.

I have tried to find the laws and legislation about liveaboards but can only find laws regarding ccers which is not the same.Can you point me in the direction of the laws and acts regarding liveaboards.

 

Provided that they have a house that they can return to immediately (not let out), then their use of the boat would inded be leisure.

 

As soon as they lack the ability to immediately return to a land based home, and the boat becomes their only home, their use of the boat ceases to be leisure.

According to who ?

[cotswoldsman]

Provided that they have a house that they can return to immediately (not let out), then their use of the boat would inded be leisure.

 

As soon as they lack the ability to immediately return to a land based home, and the boat becomes their only home, their use of the boat ceases to be leisure.

 

Sorry david I am having a bad day today have looked at the regulations and can not find anywhere that a liveaboard is defined in this way, just to make things easier for me could you provide me with the link. also could you provide the link that defines a leisure boater thanks in advance for your help.

 

Yes, I have already quoted it. Transport Act 1968 requires them to maintain the cruising waterways principally for recreational use.

 

I don't know who told you that BW don't recognise liveaboards, but it is simply untrue.

 

the waterways for the time being specified in Part II of that Schedule, being waterways (in this Part of this Act referred to as "the cruising waterways") to be principally available for cruising, fishing and other recreational purposes

 

 

 

 

david need your help again!!! I can see the cruising as one user and the recreational as another user can't seem to find anywhere tying cruising to recreational.

 

Provided that they have a house that they can return to immediately (not let out), then their use of the boat would inded be leisure.

 

As soon as they lack the ability to immediately return to a land based home, and the boat becomes their only home, their use of the boat ceases to be leisure.

 

So at least by david's law I am back to being a leisure boater, what about the other examples as I might also qualify for higher status on those?

Edited January 4, 2011 by cotswoldsman

[mayalld]

Reference please Dave, there is no mention in any of the waterway acts about liveaboards that are not houseboats.

 

Indeed there is not, for it isn't necessary to define it.

 

The fact that somebody whose presence on board is for the necessity of shelter, as he has no other home is not a recreational use can be calculated using a dictionary, and needs no explicit definition.

 

I have tried to find the laws and legislation about liveaboards but can only find laws regarding ccers which is not the same.Can you point me in the direction of the laws and acts regarding liveaboards.

 

 

I have pointed you at a law which relates to the canals being for recreational purposes. Living aboard when you have no other home is not a recreation.

[cotswoldsman]

Indeed there is not, for it isn't necessary to define it.

 

The fact that somebody whose presence on board is for the necessity of shelter, as he has no other home is not a recreational use can be calculated using a dictionary, and needs no explicit definition.

 

 

 

I have pointed you at a law which relates to the canals being for recreational purposes. Living aboard when you have no other home is not a recreation.

 

I think you are fading on this one david we have gone from an act of parliament to the dictionary now

 

 

 

 

I have pointed you at a law which relates to the canals being for recreational purposes. Living aboard when you have no other home is not a recreation.

 

Who says??

[mayalld]

Sorry david I am having a bad day today have looked at the regulations and can not find anywhere that a liveaboard is defined in this way, just to make things easier for me could you provide me with the link. also could you provide the link that defines a leisure boater thanks in advance for your help.

 

 

Have you tried a dictionary/

 

As soon as your use of the boat for shelter becomes a necessity, your use of the boat cannot be described as recreational.

 

 

david need your help again!!! I can see the cruising as one user and the recreational as another user can't seem to find anywhere tying cruising to recreational.

 

 

The wording is "to be principally available for cruising, fishing and other recreational purposes"

 

In such a wording, it is implicit that the specificaly listed items are "recreational purposes", because if they were not the word "other" would not be needed.

 

 

I think you are fading on this one david we have gone from an act of parliament to the dictionary now

 

Not at all. It is a fundamental of the law that unless otherwise defined, words take their natural meaning as found in a dictionary.

 

Who says??

 

I do. If your boat is your only or main home, it is not being used as a recreation.

[romarni123]

Activity done for enjoyment when not working

Oxford dictionary definition of recreational

Edited January 4, 2011 by romarni123

[mayalld]

Activity done for enjoyment when not working

Oxford dictionary definition of recreational

 

Does the oxford dictionary say no more about it?

[DeanS]

1. Some CCers are indeed leisure users. Many are not. Most cruising non-CCers are leisure users. Hence any action that favours non-CCers will of necessity favour leisure use.
2. Riparian businesses are not leisure users, but their presence make the canal more appealing to leisure users, hence managing the canal to encourage leisure use improves the prospects of riparian businesses, which increases the appeal to leisure users.
3. Yes, it would be appropriate to make provision for them.
4. No, that does not follow at all.

 

 

In my head, a CC-er is someone who has decided to invest everything they have into their boat, AND the entire experience of living on the canal network. They/we/I feel that , through huge finincial investment, like many other boat owners, have earned the right to NOT be relegated as a second class user of the network....which I would possibly class a hire boat visitor whose only investment is for a weeks holiday etc. I'm not wanting to seem rude at all, but having recently just gone through all the thought processes of why I'd want to live on the canals, with my family, for however long it remains enjoyable, I'll fight for my corner. I've sometimes listened to CC-ers be talked about with some suspicion (as people who aren't really upholding the real meaning of CC-ing), but even if, as a real CC-er, I might be in the minority...I still think that the financial investment I've made in the lifestyle gives me the right to be...erm..treated well by BW, pubs and anyone else linked to a canal

[Chertsey]

Do dictionary definitions have any legal force?