Splitable belt

[DHutch]

Hi, recently we replaced emily annes alternator with a low speed alternator, because the one origanly fitted very rairly acttually cut in!!

 

- the problem we have now is that the belt the used to drive the other alternator is not upto the job of turning this alternator

 

- the problem is that the belt we have currently is a sectioanl fibre belt, and it just slips on the alternators pulley, because you cant get the belt very tight, because of the way it make from the separate peices "buttoned" together

 

- what should i do? - i could get another 18" pulley, with a second belt, in the hope that that that would be enought, but i fear it wouldnt! - are there any other types of splitable belt that offter more grip?

 

- or should i scrap the belt and try to find a gear, sproket and chain of simular ratio?

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Daniel

[David Schweizer]

This maybe a stupid Question, but why don't you try a conventional belt? Admittedly it's a bit big, but I would have thought that you would find one designed for a commercial vehicle that will fit.

[Richard Bustens]

Hi Dan

You said in a previous post that you dont have conventional IC engine.

What have you got then?

[Guest]

I am a bit surprised that you can't get the belt tight-our lathes at work use these and are ok provided they are clean and dry-presumably your belt/pulleys are clean,dry, free from oil, not worn, free from grease etc.? Stating the obvious I know, but I can't think why you would have trouble with slippage especially given the size of pulleys you have. There used to be stuff called belt dressing in aerosol that cleaned belt and pulleys, but I haven't seen it for years-maybe an engineering supplies may have some. Another thought-is the tensioner working to full extent?

[Big COL]

Dan

 

Adjust the belt, this link belt as you describe it is Brammer belting widely used in industry in applications where normal V belts cannot be used. the belt is adjustable by removing or adding links. If the belt is too loose slip it off the pulleys, split the belt as it's designed to be split, remove one link, rejoin the belt and then stretch it back over the pulleys. These belts wear over the cross section just the same as normal V belts, it would be advisable if your belt has been slipping to replace it with a length of new belting. The modern Brammer belting is easier to split than the old style.

[John Orentas]

Dhutch.

 

If it was my boat, (it looks a very interesting craft) I would be looking for a way to drive the alternator from the engine crankshaft.

 

How about some more information on your boat.

 

John Squeers

[Martin]

The large pulley is obviously attached to the propshaft and this is why you can't go with an ordinary rubber "one-piece" job.

I saw belts like yours in Midland Chandlers at Penkridge in case you decide you need a replacement.

The alternator looks as though it is adjusted as far as it can be in the direction it needs to go to tighten the belt.

I suggest doing as Big COL suggests and take out a link.

The modern versions do indeed look easier to split than yours though.

[DHutch]

Hi Dan

You said in a previous post that you dont have conventional IC engine.

What have you got then? 

- ah, i though someone would bit that up soon, actually, we have a steam engine, hence the low reving propshaft, and this whole alternator problem!!

 

I am a bit surprised that you can't get the belt tight-our lathes at work use these and are ok provided they are clean and dry-presumably your belt/pulleys are clean,dry, free from oil, not worn, free from grease etc.?  Stating the obvious I know, but I can't think why you would have trouble with slippage especially given the size of pulleys you have.  There used to be stuff called belt dressing in aerosol that cleaned belt and pulleys, but I haven't seen it for years-maybe an engineering supplies may have some.  Another thought-is the tensioner working to full extent?

- yeah, well maybe the belt is bit worn, its certainl pritty clean, as for the tention, its about as tight as the belt will go, if i tighen it more it feels like im streaching it!!

- also, it is quite a hightorqe alternation, ive see it pu out 30amps at 750rpm

 

Dan

Adjust the belt, this link belt as you describe it is Brammer belting widely used in industry in applications where normal V belts cannot be used. the belt is adjustable by removing or adding links. If the belt is too loose slip it off the pulleys, split the belt as it's designed to be split, remove one link, rejoin the belt and then stretch it back over the pulleys. These belts wear over the cross section just the same as normal V belts, it would be advisable if your belt has been slipping to replace it with a length of new belting. The modern Brammer belting is easier to split than the old style.

 

as i sayed above, the belt is about a tight as it will go (although that not vey tight)

 

- i googled "Bramer" and came up with this lathe shop who stock the belts, i think (somwhere) we might have an unused orange belt, and i noticed that they do a "Super T" belt, im not sure if this would be better - but i'll mail them about the bule belts, and maybe order a pair of them

 

- and i might get another 18" pulley as well, becuase we really need to be able to generate some power!!

 

thanks all, daniel

Edited November 24, 2004 by dhutch

[Richard Bustens]

Hi Dan

I have a Graduate lathe, and that is the same principle, so there are 3 hooks along the side and i keep 4 belts on these so as one brakes just unclip the next and so on means only having to remove the headstock every 4 belts and that is about 3 years.

Could you not do something simular.

And go on then lets see some pics of the engine.

[Guest]

Did somebody mention steam-I'd love to see some pics also.

[Martin]

Sounds like a really fascinating craft!

Have you thought of using chain drive?

I'm not sure where you would get a large diameter drive-wheel from, for your prop-shaft, but it should be straightforward enough to find something for the alternator - you could weld something from a bicycle to the existing pulley perhaps.

Chain drive would certainly give you the pulling power required.

[John Orentas]

Daniel.

 

Looking at your picture again, are you sure the prop shaft can't be split. It looks as though there is some sort of coupling, you only need a 1/2 inch gap and you can use a conventional 'V' belt. There is a vast range available with sizes in quite small increments. See Power Transmission, yellow pages.

 

I wouldn't advise a chain, they'r noisy, need lubricating and not very reliable.

 

 

John Squeers

[ChrisPy]

Daniel.

 

Looking at your picture again, are you sure the prop shaft can't be split.  It looks as though there is some sort of coupling, you only need a 1/2 inch gap and you can use a conventional 'V' belt.  John Squeers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

looks more like a stuffing gland to me.

[DHutch]

No Jhon, the prop shft defonatly cant be moved, the thing you can see in the picture is the S.T.Gland, the shaft is solid, right from the coupling with the cranshaft, though 3bearings (one of which is heated onto the prop shaft) then though the pully, though the STG, and out to the prop. - so there defonatly no possablitly of ever removing it, ever!

 

- as for the chain, im sure i could get a large enough sproket to get the same gearing, beccause with the cain yo could have a much smaller gear on the alternator, beacuse its only about 1:8 (im into karting, and they can get about 1:8 with a 20mm rear sproket) - but like john sayed, it would be noiser

 

- also, i email the guys at lathes.co.uk and they say that these belt dont last very long, and also they sayed "The orange T link is better than the original black being made of an entirely different much more modern material."

 

 

so i think i'll try just fitting a new orange, and see if that works, and if not i think my grandad might have order another 18" pulley (becuase hes very keep to get some more power next year) - one problem i have is its hard to see if the belt it slipping at a quick glance, becuase it will alaway sping the alternatior a bit, and i dont have a way of checking the speed of the alternator - but you can tell it is slipping after a while, becuase the pulley on the aternator get warm after a while, and all the anodised finish came o in a few hours running

 

daniel

[DHutch]

also, im just in the middle of the major over-haul of my website, but there are a few photos of EA at tarleton last year - www.spurstow.com/emilyanne

 

- and if your interested in more detals, dont be afrad to ask anythink you want to know! - in fact, half the fun in the boat is talking about her with everyone!!

 

daniel

[John Orentas]

Dhutch.

 

Iv'e been asking around about splitable belts. There is nothing new on the market, I don't know how old you belt is but is seems the latest ones are a lot be better.

 

Make sure it is running the right way, whatever that is.

 

John Squeers.

[DHutch]

Dhutch.

 

Make sure it is running the right way, whatever that is.

 

John Squeers.

 

So, is it on the right way then, should the links more "into" the pulley

 

like this

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (links)

--> --> --> --> (direction of movment)

[Martin]

I wouldn't advise a chain, they'r noisy, need lubricating and not very reliable.

John Squeers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Timing chains have been used successfully on car engines for years.

If tensioned right, the noise is not going to be huge - how much noise does a bicycle chain make?

Plus the revs are going to be pretty slow.

If my wife's Corsa had had a timing chain instead of a cam belt, the chances are it wouldn't have cost me £1000 for a new engine last year when it broke!

Another gripe - why do car manufacturers make "interference engines" so that when the cam belt breaks the engine destroys itself?

The whole engine should not rely on such a flimsy £25 component!

[John Orentas]

Martin.

 

Timing chains operate inside an engine and run in a constant oil mist and the tension and alignment is strictly controlled. Bicycle chains run very slow and carry very little load.

 

I would have thought the last thing you want on a steamer is a chain rattling away, and they can be noisy. Daniel descibes the alternator as 'low speed' but it must be 1,000 rpm or so.

 

Totally agree about cam belts fitted on engines that self destruct, a product of a diseased brain.

 

John Squeers

 

Let's ask Daniel how many chains he has broken on his Kart.

[rustyduck]

And as a slight aside, a chain is (or at least can be made to be) one of the most efficient man made machines.

 

Belts should only be for holding your trousers up.

[DHutch]

Well, i'll give it a go with the belt(s) - becuase they are quiter, and i'll be standing above it all the time its running,

 

- as for the kart chains, i havnt ever broke a chain, chains have fallen off, and ive broke chainrings, but the chains them selfs dont brake

 

- but they do make a noise, yeah cant hear it with the engine running, but we do have an noisy engine, and they make a fair bit of noise if you spin the wheels with the engine off.

 

daniel

[Rick]

Martin.

Bicycle chains run very slow and carry very little load.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unless they are on a Manx Norton

 

Richard

[dor]

Hey, not just on Manx Nortons either. I have friends who would suggest that the chain on my Triumph goes quite quickly (and with two of us up, it carries a fair load).

 

Speed is limited by a pain in the kidneys (caused by wife on the back trying to indicate that perhaps I should slow down just a little).

Edited December 1, 2004 by dor

[Martin]

Strange - but I dreamt up a solution to this problem in my sleep last night.

We mounted a car wheel - complete with tyre - on the propshaft.

The alternator was then mounted to touch the tyre and was held there by a couple of engine valve-springs.

I even got as far as attaching a short length of rubber hose over the alternator pulley so as not to gouge grooves in the tyre.

It worked perfectly and was quiet too.

[rustyduck]

Well done Martin - that's thinking outside the straight-jacket if ever I've heard it!