Silly inverter question

[LoneEcho]

Ok, not a question about a silly inverter, but a silly question about an inverter.

 

From what I understand if you are on a 230/240v shoreline, the feed goes through the inverter (probably got that wrong for a start) and controls the charging of the batteries and the 230v ring. So my silly question is, when connected to shoreline are you limited by the kw of the inverter. I am looking at a 2kw victron (comes as standard), with an option of upgrading to 3kw. Not anticipating a larger than 2kw requirement when cruising.

 

Thanks

 

Laurie

[WotEver]

Hi Laurie,

 

Take a look at this PDF - it explains it all

 

Tony

[LoneEcho]

Thanks for that will have a proper read when not working.

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Its not a silly question, seems your asking about a Victron multi-plus rather than just an inverter. The simple answer is, on shore power you have available 16 amps plus (for short periods) the inverter output. If your shore connection is more than 16 amps you can buy the multi-plus with a larger relay. The multi-plus adjusts its charge rate depending on your consumption so it never reduces the available power

[LoneEcho]

Yes it will be a victron multi plus.

 

All is becoming clearer. So the 2kw rating will restrict usage while cruising but will not on shoreline. Still not managed to read all the pdf document.

 

Thanks

 

Laurie

Edited June 24, 2010 by laurieb

[nb Innisfree]

Its not a silly question, seems your asking about a Victron multi-plus rather than just an inverter. The simple answer is, on shore power you have available 16 amps plus (for short periods) the inverter output. If your shore connection is more than 16 amps you can buy the multi-plus with a larger relay. The multi-plus adjusts its charge rate depending on your consumption so it never reduces the available power

 

?? the higher the charge rate the less shore power available.

 

 

Yes it will be a victron multi plus.

 

All is becoming clearer. So the 2kw rating will restrict usage while cruising but will not on shoreline. Still not managed to read all the pdf document.

 

Thanks

 

Laurie

 

With a 2kva Multiplus you will have 1.6kva continuously available and 2kva available for short periods. When on shore power it will be the same + the available SP

[WJM]

I have a Victron on a shore-line set up as you describe. I found that having the electric immersion heater on left very little power for anything else (ie: it would trip if I switched on much else). Here is what I did: I installed a regular house mains socket upstream of the Victron, so the mains now supplies both the inverter and this independent mains socket. I run my heavy load device (a heater) from the direct socket and leave the inverter to supply the normal ring main and the immersion.

[LoneEcho]

I have a Victron on a shore-line set up as you describe. I found that having the electric immersion heater on left very little power for anything else (ie: it would trip if I switched on much else). Here is what I did: I installed a regular house mains socket upstream of the Victron, so the mains now supplies both the inverter and this independent mains socket. I run my heavy load device (a heater) from the direct socket and leave the inverter to supply the normal ring main and the immersion.

 

So the Victron is limiting the shore power available ? So a larger rated one would be better ?

 

Sorry, just as I thought I had got my head round it.

[nb Innisfree]

I have a Victron on a shore-line set up as you describe. I found that having the electric immersion heater on left very little power for anything else (ie: it would trip if I switched on much else). Here is what I did: I installed a regular house mains socket upstream of the Victron, so the mains now supplies both the inverter and this independent mains socket. I run my heavy load device (a heater) from the direct socket and leave the inverter to supply the normal ring main and the immersion.

 

A Multiplus will do all that automatically. Connect to SP and put a highish load on the Multiplus, increase amp reading on remote dial until SP trips out then reduce dial setting slightly. Multiplus will now prevent SP tripping on loads higher than SPs capacity and augment from batteries instead.

 

 

So the Victron is limiting the shore power available ? So a larger rated one would be better ?

 

Sorry, just as I thought I had got my head round it.

 

Yes Multiplus will limit SP available depending on what limit you choose.

[LoneEcho]

A Multiplus will do all that automatically. Connect to SP and put a highish load on the Multiplus, increase amp reading on remote dial until SP trips out then reduce dial setting slightly. Multiplus will now prevent SP tripping on loads higher than SPs capacity and augment from batteries instead.

 

 

 

 

Yes Multiplus will limit SP available depending on what limit you choose.

 

 

Got it. Thanks all

[WotEver]

Yes Multiplus will limit SP available depending on what limit you choose.

But OP is asking whether a 2kW Multiplus will limit his available power to 2kW even if he has a 3kW shore power feed. I'm unsure of the answer to that, and I don't believe any of the answers so far have specifically addressed this question.

 

So for instance, if he had a 4kW genny, but fed that through a 2kW Multiplus, will that mean that the power available will be limited to 2kW?

 

Tony

[LoneEcho]

But OP is asking whether a 2kW Multiplus will limit his available power to 2kW even if he has a 3kW shore power feed. I'm unsure of the answer to that, and I don't believe any of the answers so far have specifically addressed this question.

 

So for instance, if he had a 4kW genny, but fed that through a 2kW Multiplus, will that mean that the power available will be limited to 2kW?

 

Tony

 

Exactly what I was trying to say, maybe albeit in a long winded way.

[barge sara]

But OP is asking whether a 2kW Multiplus will limit his available power to 2kW even if he has a 3kW shore power feed. I'm unsure of the answer to that, and I don't believe any of the answers so far have specifically addressed this question.

 

So for instance, if he had a 4kW genny, but fed that through a 2kW Multiplus, will that mean that the power available will be limited to 2kW?

 

Yes, the multiplus will only 'pass through' its rated current, possibly a bit more, before it trips. So the multiplus must be sized for the maximum (concurrent) load the boat will want to draw, and there is no point in having a generator (or shore supply) with a greater capacity than the multiplus.

 

You can (if you can afford them!) connect several multiplus' in parallel to give a higher power, but you will need the battery capacity to service them.

[LoneEcho]

Yes, the multiplus will only 'pass through' its rated current, possibly a bit more, before it trips. So the multiplus must be sized for the maximum (concurrent) load the boat will want to draw, and there is no point in having a generator (or shore supply) with a greater capacity than the multiplus.

 

You can (if you can afford them!) connect several multiplus' in parallel to give a higher power, but you will need the battery capacity to service them.

 

Thanks John, looks like I may need to upgrade.

[barge sara]

Thanks John, looks like I may need to upgrade.

 

Just a warning, if you already have a Multiplus, and want to add another, you may have problems getting them to work in parallel because from time to time Victron upgrade the software.

You really need identical units, ideally from the same batch, otherwise give Victron the serial number and software release number off the existing unit and ask them to match it.

[nb Innisfree]

The Victron specs say the internal relay will pass up to 16A from input power to output, remote dial goes up to 16A, any more will require an external contactor, so total available power will be about 3kw + the inverter capacity. I have used a 4kva genny with our 3kva Multiplus but only loaded with 3kw. If two or more Multis are paralleled then I believe one Multiplus will act as the 'master' for other 'slave' Multis, can't be absolutely certain on this but I am sure I was told this by Victron.

[Justme]

With the multiplus you can either have a 16 or 32 amp version. When on mains or genny you can use 16 or 32amps through it if the supply can handle it. If you have a small genny (or a limited shoreline) you can use it in support mode so that the say 1kw genny & the 2 kw inverter will let you run 3kw devices. I am not sure if you can use the 16/32amps & the inverters 2kw as the unit can only "pass" 16 or 32amps. The charger will cut in & out as needed when power use allows. If you have a limited mains power you can limit the 16/32 amps down to a lesser level so you dont trip the shoreline post.

[nb Innisfree]

So a 2kva M+ with a 32A relay will pass in the region of 7kw? If so it will be ok with a 5kva genny? All a bit academic really as 3kw is as much as anyone will need.

[J R]

Ok, not a question about a silly inverter, but a silly question about an inverter.

 

From what I understand if you are on a 230/240v shoreline, the feed goes through the inverter (probably got that wrong for a start) and controls the charging of the batteries and the 230v ring. So my silly question is, when connected to shoreline are you limited by the kw of the inverter. I am looking at a 2kw victron (comes as standard), with an option of upgrading to 3kw. Not anticipating a larger than 2kw requirement when cruising.

 

Thanks

 

Laurie

 

Admittably not a great fan of Victrons. Suggest that an inverter/charger is doing two or three jobs in one go. If you are going to be on shore power you could have a switch over switch from the Victron to shore power if you need power in the boat on 240v. This will not charge your batteries obviously. You could have a set up whereby on shore power you can charge the batteries plus have all the 240v that you require. Don't get me wrong; Victron have come up with a good solution, however, depending on peoples usage and requirements this may not work all of the time. Have been asked over the past two or three weeks about queries on four Victron installations, which basically comes down to how a 'combined' unit does or does not perform . Our solution for what is worth, was engine to battery charger to the 12v, 3.5 kw inverter, 240v shore power 12v charger. Never had a problem with 12v or 240v on shore power. All are seperately linked and isolatable and work according to our needs. Therefor the boat is not limited elecrickery wise on that set up. Works for us but others may disagree. Know that budgets are limited nowadays and individual choice and preferences come into play.

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

?? the higher the charge rate the less shore power available.

 

Exactly the point, the Victron REDUCES its charge rate. If for instance you turn on appliances that need 16 amps the unit will stop charging until you turn something off.

[nb Innisfree]

Exactly the point, the Victron REDUCES its charge rate. If for instance you turn on appliances that need 16 amps the unit will stop charging until you turn something off.

 

Correct of course, I was misreading your post

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

This topis if full of misleading and wrong information

 

to clarify the OPs original question - "are you limited by the kw of the inverter" No! the unit will not reduce the available shore power in any way.

[barge sara]

So a 2kva M+ with a 32A relay will pass in the region of 7kw? If so it will be ok with a 5kva genny? All a bit academic really as 3kw is as much as anyone will need.

 

Que?

 

We have a pair of 3.5 Kw multis feeding a selection of:

Normal electric cooker, two ovens and 4 hotplates each taking ITRO 1.5 to 2.0KW

Water Heater 2KW

Microwave

Kettle

Toaster

etc.

 

Presumably 3Kw being 'as much as anyone will need' assumes that you cook and heat water on gas?

We find 7Kw just about handles controlled concurrent useof a selection of the above.

 

This topis if full of misleading and wrong information

 

to clarify the OPs original question - "are you limited by the kw of the inverter" No! the unit will not reduce the available shore power in any way.

 

Assuming that you either bypass it or fit an external relay. My reponse was based on using a Victron combi unit 'as it comes'...

Edited June 25, 2010 by barge sara

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Assuming that you either bypass it or fit an external relay. My reponse was based on using a Victron combi unit 'as it comes'...

 

Rubbish!

 

My reponse was based on using a Victron combi unit 'as it comes'... AND knowing its capabilities

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Yes, the multiplus will only 'pass through' its rated current, possibly a bit more, before it trips. So the multiplus must be sized for the maximum (concurrent) load the boat will want to draw, and there is no point in having a generator (or shore supply) with a greater capacity than the multiplus.

 

Every point in this post is wrong!

 

a multi-plus will pass through power to the limit of its relay Not to the limit of the inverter output