Boat Builders

[BigAl40]

Hi

 

My wife and I are looking to buy a liveaboard in early 2007, so we signed up to Canal World to get some tips and guidance and this is my first posting. As advised in all the books and mags we've been doing the rounds of boat-builders and we've learnt a lot. We were impressed by the boats at Otherton Boathaven but have since been told that the build quality might not be up to scratch - I realise that, as in most things, you get what you pay for - does anyone have any experience of Otherton? Severn Valley Cruisers would be our first alternative - any views?

[Gary Peacock]

Hi

 

My wife and I are looking to buy a liveaboard in early 2007, so we signed up to Canal World to get some tips and guidance and this is my first posting. As advised in all the books and mags we've been doing the rounds of boat-builders and we've learnt a lot. We were impressed by the boats at Otherton Boathaven but have since been told that the build quality might not be up to scratch - I realise that, as in most things, you get what you pay for - does anyone have any experience of Otherton? Severn Valley Cruisers would be our first alternative - any views?

 

Magazines, websites and adverts tell you very little about quality it is far better to visit as many builders as possible you will quickly get a feel for what is good and not so good.

 

Be wary of the "smoke and mirrors" pricing policy common in the boat building industry the price quoted is very often not going to be a true price for the boat you are viewing.

 

Ask for written detailed quotations you should expect to know what you are buying, handing over a deposit based on a couple of sheets of photocopied vague details is not a good idea.

 

Consider if you would prefer to deal with a builder, fitter or broker these are all ways of purchasing a boat but can offer different services.

 

The trade organisations the British Marine Federation and Canal Boat Builders Association's members have agreed to abide by codes of conduct that should help guarantee their products and services.

 

Good luck with the hunt there is probably more choice and better specifications available now then any time in the past so don't be afraid to do plenty looking before making up your minds!

[Liverpool Boat Co Ltd]

I always recommend that the shows (NEC-Feb, Crick-May, and IWA-August are the ones we are attending in 2006) are well worth a visit.

 

In addition to getting to talk to a lot of builders in one place you will also get to meet a lot of owners. Whenever a potential customer stops in the boat to ask us some questions, there always seems to be a previous customer coming through who is more than happy to stop and discuss their experience of Liverpool Boats.

[sean white]

bought broad beam from ********* boats, quite a few problems. after sales extremely poor

edited again to remove builders name

Edited December 13, 2005 by Bernie

[tomandsophie]

Just a quick one. We had our liveaboard widebeam built by Colecraft (shell) and Bath Narrowboats (the rest) and we're extremely pleased. 57' x 10'6" for £58750. A bargain as far as we're concerned. Bath Narrowboats - highly recommended - excellent quality workmanship, great people to work with, excellent after-sales service.

Have a look at our pics in the gallery (all titled 'Tarifa') for an example.

[Cris P]

The same Bath Narrowboats as the hire fleet at the top of the Bath flight ? I didn't know they did fitouts - judging by your photos they did well.

[tomandsophie]

Yep, that's them. They did a great job on our boat. Highly recommended

[gringogordo]

That looks like a fantastic job to me (from my narrow beam 36' footer which is in continual renovation). Out of interest I notice that

 

a, its all very plush with nice things on board

b, you're moored on the cut

c, you have glass panelled doors at the front.

 

Do you mind (and I have no idea about this at all I'm just curious) if I ask whether you considered this as a security risk (if you go away for a weekend/week) and if so what made you disregard it? Sorry I don't mean to be negative (I'm very jealous!) I've just always wondered how come it never seems to be an issue...

 

Cheers,

 

Ben.

[tomandsophie]

Ben,

We have blinds on all the windows and curtains on the bow windows and doors and keep everything expensive (of which there is very little!) out of sight. I figured really that if anybody is going to break into the boat they'll smash a window and get in - pretty much nothing you can do will keep out a prospective theft. That is unless you want all portholes and no windows in your doors (we didn't!) and then of course the theif will just bend your steel doors with a crowbar and get in that way (it happened to a friend of ours).

Thanks for the compliments!

All the best,

Tom.

[gringogordo]

Ben,

We have blinds on all the windows and curtains on the bow windows and doors and keep everything expensive (of which there is very little!) out of sight. I figured really that if anybody is going to break into the boat they'll smash a window and get in - pretty much nothing you can do will keep out a prospective theft. That is unless you want all portholes and no windows in your doors (we didn't!) and then of course the theif will just bend your steel doors with a crowbar and get in that way (it happened to a friend of ours).

Thanks for the compliments!

All the best,

Tom.

 

 

Yes you're probably right (they just ripped the door right off mine when they went for it!), and judging on the new builds I see most people agree with you. They just always seem so fragile to me. I guess I just need to spend more time with my shrink!

[tomandsophie]

I think if you're worried about security an alarm is the best way forward. Not that we've fitted one yet. I really must look in to that. My only worry is that our cat might keep on setting it off. I'll have to do some research...

[dor]

It is going to depend where you are, but on the majority of the network, if you are going to worry about security, you will worry too much.

 

I still find it remarkable that people can leave a narrowboat, with generally little real security, on a towpath for months on end and it never gets touched.

 

Marinas will give you more security, but you pay for it.

 

A boat near me was broken in to earlier this year - they stole the doors off the front!

 

The TV however, just inside the doors, wasn't taken or anything else, despite the doors being missing for weeks.

[Cris P]

I always think that if you're on the river, like me, and quite away from the bank with a long gangplank, then somebody has got to be pretty determined to go aboard and help themselves. They'd then have to cart stuff back again, and down a towpath to get away. More hassle than its worth for most, I would think. Far easier to nick bikes in town ?

[Denis R]

Coming back round to the original post, I ended up completely befuddled by talking to perhaps too many builders. In the end I whittled it down to three who, as well as offering what I perceived as the quality I was looking for, made me feel as if they were 'of the same mind' and gave me a warm feeling. All BMF members too. I was looking to be actively invoved in the project and that's exactly what I'm getting. The builder I chose is always calling me to get me along to view progress and I'm really happy with my decision. In the end I'm sure it comes down to this 'gut feel' and personal relationship, once the technical competency boxes have been ticked....

[DHutch]

Coming back round to the original post, I ended up completely befuddled by talking to perhaps too many builders...

Ah you see, thats what the digital cameras for...

 

...The camera never lies...

[BigAl40]

Haven't been back here for a few days so thanks for all the comments - we're feeling a little like Denis R and I quite agree - we will probably draw up a short list of builders and decide on the standard of workmanship and if you feel comfortable to "work with" the builder. We took a second look at the New Boat Co' s boats last week and were disappointed with the standard of work on the Liverpool Boat Co's boats - chipped veneer on a couple of doors and it had been varnished over so must have come out of the boatyard like that. And my wife ( who has a thing about this with picture frames) noticed that a control panel wasn't straight.

 

Now we're getting more befuddled looking for moorings and problem of mooring over winter. We won't have a permanent address anywhere else (on land) and the marinas we've looked at so far don't have residential moorings although it seems they might turn a blind eye to this fact - any thoughts - should I start a new thread?

[Breals]

I asked BW for a winter mooring. No problem at all, there are plenty about.

[iteldoo4me]

I always recommend that the shows (NEC-Feb, Crick-May, and IWA-August are the ones we are attending in 2006) are well worth a visit.

 

In addition to getting to talk to a lot of builders in one place you will also get to meet a lot of owners. Whenever a potential customer stops in the boat to ask us some questions, there always seems to be a previous customer coming through who is more than happy to stop and discuss their experience of Liverpool Boats.

 

 

 

 

Bought a new boat from ***** BOATS serious problems with build during ,and especially afterwards.with refusals to accept reponsibilties for poor quality welding amongst a list of 28 faults.My reccomendations are find people with newish boats who are happy with the results,and deffinately visit as many builders as you can. get the impression that there a lot of new companies springing up because there are no regulations regarding this industry that protect the consumers.

 

edited to remove builders name

Edited December 13, 2005 by Bernie

[DHutch]

My reccomendations are find people with newish boats who are happy with the results,and deffinately visit as many builders as you can.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

 

 

edited to remove builders name

[Gary Peacock]

Sorry to say it but the lack of enforsible legislation in the boat building realm does make it a very attractive field to move into for some of the less savoury types.

 

Where else can you be asked to hand over such large amounts of your cash with very little legal support if things go wrong? The last boat we built was a £170K if you were buying a house for that money you would have plenty of contractal and legal protection but because this was a boat the dealings relied largely on trust from both parties.

 

On another thought how many builders supply a VAT receipt? I know of one who doesn't and takes very large payments in cash because he says it's simpler for him that way!

[anhar]

Haven't been back here for a few days so thanks for all the comments - we're feeling a little like Denis R and I quite agree - we will probably draw up a short list of builders and decide on the standard of workmanship and if you feel comfortable to "work with" the builder. We took a second look at the New Boat Co' s boats last week and were disappointed with the standard of work on the Liverpool Boat Co's boats - chipped veneer on a couple of doors and it had been varnished over so must have come out of the boatyard like that. And my wife ( who has a thing about this with picture frames) noticed that a control panel wasn't straight.

 

Now we're getting more befuddled looking for moorings and problem of mooring over winter. We won't have a permanent address anywhere else (on land) and the marinas we've looked at so far don't have residential moorings although it seems they might turn a blind eye to this fact - any thoughts - should I start a new thread?

Hello BigAl40

 

I'm in the same position as you and have travelled the country looking for a boat. I've looked at quite a number of new boat suppliers and have seen a lot of s/h boats too. As far as New Boat Co. are concerned, they do sell other makes of boat than Liverpool. For example their attractive Aqualine range built in Poland and also I've seen a Heron there.

 

I don't know what price range you are in but on the question of risk to the buyer of a boat maker going bust during a new build, the fairest arrangements I've ever seen come from Ken Yates boats in Northampton. He is very much at the budget end of the business with a new 45' at around £40,000. His terms are a 10% deposit on order with the whole balance on delivery. No stage payments. So if you pay the 10% by credit card you are completely protected against the firm's failure. All other builders I've seen require stage payments though that is understandable I guess.

 

I am still in the process of making up my mind on a supplier. Looking around widely is instructive and I definitely advocate it, even though you can suffer from overkill making the decision more difficult. I didn't really know what I wanted when I first looked around but now have a much clearer idea following many visits to suppliers, talking to owners, reading mags and internet blogs and learning a lot on this forum too. You have to learn to filter the inevitably conflicting advice that you receive as well. A lot of it is merely personal opinion rather than hard fact so you need to decide which of it suits you, rather than the adviser.

 

regards

Steve

[ChrisPy]

 

On another thought how many builders supply a VAT receipt? I know of one who doesn't and takes very large payments in cash because he says it's simpler for him that way!

well, it saves all that paperwork and the argument about whether it's an exempt ship and all that nonsense.

[BigAl40]

Hello BigAl40

 

I'm in the same position as you and have travelled the country looking for a boat. I've looked at quite a number of new boat suppliers and have seen a lot of s/h boats too. As far as New Boat Co. are concerned, they do sell other makes of boat than Liverpool. For example their attractive Aqualine range built in Poland and also I've seen a Heron there.

 

I don't know what price range you are in but on the question of risk to the buyer of a boat maker going bust during a new build, the fairest arrangements I've ever seen come from Ken Yates boats in Northampton. He is very much at the budget end of the business with a new 45' at around £40,000. His terms are a 10% deposit on order with the whole balance on delivery. No stage payments. So if you pay the 10% by credit card you are completely protected against the firm's failure. All other builders I've seen require stage payments though that is understandable I guess.

 

I am still in the process of making up my mind on a supplier. Looking around widely is instructive and I definitely advocate it, even though you can suffer from overkill making the decision more difficult. I didn't really know what I wanted when I first looked around but now have a much clearer idea following many visits to suppliers, talking to owners, reading mags and internet blogs and learning a lot on this forum too. You have to learn to filter the inevitably conflicting advice that you receive as well. A lot of it is merely personal opinion rather than hard fact so you need to decide which of it suits you, rather than the adviser.

 

regards

Steve

 

 

New Boat Co was the first builder we went to (mainly because they were local) and like you we were impressed by the Manhattan but as I will be running a business onboard I need "office space" so a bespoke boat is really the answer and we're looking to spend £80-90k. We went to New Boat Co's open day a couple of weeks ago and found it most instructive talking to other boaters - some who had already boat from New Boat and some prospective customers. We'be been doing the rounds of builders since August and each time we've come away with some good ideas and conflicting suggestions and I entirely agree with your comments - you need a clear idea of what you want and find someone that you feel can fulfill your requirements. We found "Narrowboat Planning" by Graham Booth has been quite helpful in deciding our clarifying what we want. We're visiting another boat builder this weekend and feel we will have to make a decision in the new year if we're to have a boat by Spring 2007.

[BigAl40]

We've now booked a slot for 2007 with Darren Aldridge in Rugby,. Thanks to everyone for their advice - I'm sure there will be other questions we'll be asking in the months to come and we appreciate the help on offer

[DHutch]

We've now booked a slot for 2007 with Darren Aldridge in Rugby,. Thanks to everyone for their advice - I'm sure there will be other questions we'll be asking in the months to come and we appreciate the help on offer

Good luck.

- A saw on of his boats at preston brook, lovly job. (another member on here mentioned he was the middle of a build with him, so i paid perticular attention to it)

 

(linky1) (linky2) (linky3)

 

 

 

Daniel