Nottingham prison boats?

[Chertsey]

I came across this in a novel (Last Rites by John Harvey) the other day:

 

'Romanticising Resnick knew, and as dangerous as the efforts to dress up the past and sell it sanitised that drew tourists to the Lace Museum and Tales of Robin Hood and even the Galleries of Justice, where for a few pounds you could inspect the old police cells and the tunnel along which deported prisoners were shepherded into canal boats on the first part of their plague-ridden journey to the colonies.'

 

Now most of the stuff in this guys books, at least as far as Nottingham is concerned, seems to be pretty accurate. Does anyone know anything about this practice, or where I might find out more?

 

edited to add, it is about Nottingham, in case I didn't make that clear.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Chertsey

[Derek R.]

In a land before railways and half decent roads (not many would have been fitted into an average stage coach, and with shackles the added weight an added burden) and so the likely-hood is real. When the Aylesbury canal was opened in 1815, one of the noted 'new' cargoes were emmigrants leaving for the promised New World.

 

Derek

[NB Alnwick]

In a land before railways and half decent roads (not many would have been fitted into an average stage coach, and with shackles the added weight an added burden) and so the likely-hood is real. When the Aylesbury canal was opened in 1815, one of the noted 'new' cargoes were emmigrants leaving for the promised New World.

 

Derek

 

Although not related to Nottingham, when researching early modes of transport between Edinburgh and London, I found an account of how, in the early 1800s, 'sailing barges' carried convicts from the Port of Louth to the Thames Estuary where the convicts were transferred at sea (off Chatham) to ships for 'transportation' to Australia. It is quite possible that barges navigated the Trent for the same purpose but I very much doubt if they would have used narrow boats travelling via the Soar and Grand Union. It was recorded that the sea passage and the transfer at sea provided some considerable protection against escapes.

[Kez]

I caught a bit of 'Who do you think you are?' on tv and there was a mention of the Grand Junction carrying people looking for work in the 1800's. There's a couple of mentions in some of my books of people using packet boats 'cause they were more comfortable than the stagecoach.

 

Edited to add: Just looked in one of my ancestors diaries (1828) and there's a mention of the Nottingham prison boats!

Saw the poor wretches destined for the colonies being herded like cattle into the canal boats. They are a pitiful sight in their chains. No doubt for some their only crime was to try and feed their children

Edited January 5, 2010 by Kez

[Barry]

Although not related to Nottingham, when researching early modes of transport between Edinburgh and London, I found an account of how, in the early 1800s, 'sailing barges' carried convicts from the Port of Louth to the Thames Estuary where the convicts were transferred at sea (off Chatham) to ships for 'transportation' to Australia. It is quite possible that barges navigated the Trent for the same purpose but I very much doubt if they would have used narrow boats travelling via the Soar and Grand Union. It was recorded that the sea passage and the transfer at sea provided some considerable protection against escapes.

 

That's interesting Alnwick

 

Do you remember where the Port of Louth was situated

 

 

 

 

I've googled it with no joy

[Chertsey]

I caught a bit of 'Who do you think you are?' on tv and there was a mention of the Grand Junction carrying people looking for work in the 1800's. There's a couple of mentions in some of my books of people using packet boats 'cause they were more comfortable than the stagecoach.

 

Edited to add: Just looked in one of my ancestors diaries (1828) and there's a mention of the Nottingham prison boats!

Saw the poor wretches destined for the colonies being herded like cattle into the canal boats. They are a pitiful sight in their chains. No doubt for some their only crime was to try and feed their children

Wow! Extraordinary. Where would that have been from, do you know?

I'm guessing it would be situated near where the old police courts were (which is now the Galleries of Justice, and I have looked on their website but it doesn't mention this at all), but presumably some distance from the water if they required a tunnel. I'm guessing it would come out onto the Beeston Cut somewhere - anyone know where? As we were through there twice last summer, I wish I had known then.

[Kez]

Wow! Extraordinary. Where would that have been from, do you know?

I'm guessing it would be situated near where the old police courts were (which is now the Galleries of Justice, and I have looked on their website but it doesn't mention this at all), but presumably some distance from the water if they required a tunnel. I'm guessing it would come out onto the Beeston Cut somewhere - anyone know where? As we were through there twice last summer, I wish I had known then.

 

He doesnt specify where it was, it's sort of an account of his trip to Nottingham. He mentions the pub (assumably Ye olde trip to Jerusam) and the castle aswell. Reading the rest of it, I think hes near broadmarsh. I'l get out my old maps and investigate!

Then he goes back to Northamptonshire and London. He was in the silk weaving business, so maybe the canal will crop up again.

[Hairy-Neil]

That's interesting Alnwick

 

Do you remember where the Port of Louth was situated

 

 

 

 

I've googled it with no joy

 

And you found nothing on the Louth Canal?

 

Clicky

 

Another clicky

[Barry]

Now that is interesting - I'll have to go up and have a look. I've walked a lot in the Wolds but never knew there was a canal. All the waterways I know up there are shallow fordable streams.

 

I googled "Port of Louth"

[Derek R.]

Don't forget the prison at Millbank, which 'exported' many souls to Australia, wearing their uniforms with the three letters P.O.M. on - Prisoner Of Millbank, which subsequently gave rise to the name of 'Pom's' or 'Pommies'.

 

There is another theory to the nick-name relating Sunburnt red faces being much like a Pomegranate, but generally refuted.

 

Derek

[NB Alnwick]

That's interesting Alnwick

 

Do you remember where the Port of Louth was situated

 

 

 

 

I've googled it with no joy

 

Sorry - I meant to type 'Port of Leith' - this is what happens of typing in the dark and not double checking!

[Barry]

Ah

 

That explains much...

[Québec]

Don't forget the prison at Millbank, which 'exported' many souls to Australia.

 

a bit of Googling came up with these bits and pieces......

 

1) Millbank Prison Transportation Bollard, opposite Tate Britain, Millbank, SW1.

The bollard was used for tying up the barges used for taking prisoners to boats at London Bridge for transportation to Australia. The writer, Charles Dickens(1816-1890) described its use in ‘David Copperfield’. Where Tate Britain now stands was the site of Millbank Prison (1816-90)

 

2) Aylesbury Arm. A large wharf (was) situated at Wilstone Bridge. The cottage to accommodate the wharfinger and lock keeper stood in the yard behind the present Victory House (which was erected to commemorate the ending of the 1914-18 war). Apart from being a coal storage depot, records exist which show large quantities of hay and straw being transported to London, the boats in general returning with soot and manure. Records also exist of soldiers and convicts being transported to the coast from Aylesbury, and of many families who travelled to Liverpool, joining the main canal at Marsworth en route to join ships on their way to America and Canada.

 

3)Norman Cross

The Depot

(The term ‘prisoner of war camp’ was not used and the term ‘Depot’ encompassed the prison proper, the barracks, and all other Government buildings)

Date 1793

Location Adjacent to the A1, Yaxley, Cambridgeshire.

Type Military

Original use Land Prisoner of War Camp

History:

•The old forts and 'Convict Hulks' (de-commissioned battleships) moored in south coast harbours; empty warehouses or similar buildings became overcrowded due to the huge increase of prisoners of war sent to Britain.

•It was built adjacent to the Great North Road (which linked London to York) and near to the fen waterways for numerous reasons - transportation of prisoners and troops, good costal access, clean water from deep wells, large open inland site, difficulty of or being helped with escaping, and the benefits from the large population and agricultural land and markets.

•In April 1797, the Depot received its first prisoners.

•Prisoners were transported by barges up the River Nene from Kings Lynn and Wisbech, disembarked at Peterborough Wharf and marched from there to the Depot.

•The prisoners of the Depot were mostly French and some Dutch. Mainly sailors and soldiers but also fishermen and civilians.

[madcat]

Bazza I fell in the Louth canal as a kid and quite a lot of other water as well .Regular reason for being in trouble at home.

[Barry]

Caught my first fish in the Bain at Tattershall

 

Never fell in though

[Roger t' Bodger]

I asked this question here a couple of years ago and got nothing but this time I think I have another piece of the jigsaw to add to this.

 

"A strange thing happen once while I worked at Belgrave Hall Museum (north of Leicester on the Soar) in that a wrong local phone number had me talking to a complete stranger who told me that in the early 19th century local felons were judged at a magistrate’s court held in the Talbot Inn (still there). If found guilty, were hooded and led down a tunnel to the navigation where a narrowboat was moored. The prisoners were then transported, still hooded - he stressed, via the canal system to London and onward to Australia. He then put down the phone before I could question him more so I’ve no idea where he got this idea. I’ve asked canal history experts who thought it unlikely as although special cargoes of animals, soldiers and mentally ill people were known there has been no record of any canal carrier transporting prisoners." 2008

 

The time window for this was quite short from the opening of the through canal route to London and the coming of the railways.

 

I haven't published this yet as there isn't the resources to do justice to the project....(River Soar - Frog Island to Belgrave) There have been lots of tunnel stories about this immediate location, I believe that are all based on the surviving cellars of some houses demolished in the 1940's that were converted into bomb shelters and in the poverty of the post war became a forbidden playground to kids in the 50's) But there you go some unsubstanciated rumour to add to this thread. This weird (really weird!) phone conversation was in 2006.

This photo taken in the 1900's from across the Soar where the disused marina is situated, shows the 'Old Bridge' a medieval packhorse bridge where it is more likely where any boarding was done as the towpath changes side here upstream of the bridge to avoid the land own by Belgrave Hall.

[Donald Gilchrist]

Have seen something on this,sorry cant remember where but prob Nottm history website. The river Lean went along the bottom of the cliff under the castle and the old court,now the gallery of justice. The cons were loaded onto boats from there to be transported to the carabean collanes. The river Lean has had its coars changed quite a few times as the canal was inproved.Have seen photos of a ropewalk between the canal and the river where Castle Blvd is now and the river was still running along under the cliff then.The bit of Nottm under the gallery of justice was called Narrow marsh and became a natorias slum,its now old councle houseing next to Broadmarsh shoping cent.The area was improaved and drained when the railway was built,allthough it still remaind a slum area.

[Chertsey]

That's very interesting, thank you.