Marina's and there diesel fixing

[nb Innisfree]

A boat may be moved for the purpose of refuelling and not count that movement as propulsion. There are residential boats that are permanently moored for many (often every) month of the year. They still need to move to replenish their diesel tanks from time to time. That does not preclude them from declaring a genuine 100% domestic. I believe.

 

 

The guidelines are clear. It is not for the supplier to determine whether the purchaser is being honest as to their diesel use. Nor should it be. I sell diesel at Stowe Hill (not on Sue's list but I hope she will read this!) at any split the buyer requests. Who am I to make unfounded judgements about any boater's declaration. On what basis would I do so?

 

I'm also a BMF member and I've seen nothing from them that suggests Registered Dealers of Controlled Oils, as the HMRC term us, should not continue to accept the buyer's declared usage. I do know some yards simply stick to 60/40 because they cannot be bothered with the additional calculations involved. It also enables them to provide a single per litre price. No pump can provide two prices for a single delivery, so I set mine to the domestic rate and tell the buyer what the propulsion cost per litre is.

 

Finally, there is an Aspley Wharf in Huddersfield where the Broad meets the Narrow. Is that it? It was sold recently.

 

You are doing it the correct way.

 

My point was suppliers who supply only at 60/40 can be forcing boaters to make an illegal declaration if they exceed 60% propulsion. If for instance an inexperienced boater is genuinely unaware of his intended usage and asks suppliers advice who then says 60/40 is ok but it is clear that propulsion will exceed 60% then suppliers duty of care must compel him to refuse to sell or allow boater to self declare. (or sell at 100%)

 

On the other hand if supplier informs buyer after refuelling that he only does 60/40, who is responsible if buyer then states that he exceeds 60% propulsion?

[DHutch]

Another point i will make is that the fuel was put in my tank and i didnt know how much it cost per litre before it was put in ...

I have to say, if i where buying diesal i would be enquiring as to the cost per liter before filling comensted in all situataions. (furthermore, as a resaler, i would be informing people of the cost before filling commensted also!)

 

That said, my old marina had a fair point when they said they could not see how boats that repeatedly motored in to refill, (using their own diesel engines), and which hadve only a single fuel tank, could be consistently declaring 0% propulsion! It's not hard to see why some suppliers believe certain boaters are taking the p***!

That said, if they started out with a full tank of pre-declataion diesal prehaps it is that they are using for propulusion with the tops ups being for heating/generation only? Or prehaps they buy there propulsion diesal from the roadsize and top the boat up with that? Anything possable. Although i do admit that potentially a decleation of 0% propusion is asking for attention needlessly.

 

 

A boat may be moved for the purpose of refuelling and not count that movement as propulsion. [snp] I believe.

It would be interesting to get clarifcation on that. Although i can see it may be a valid point, i would be slightly supprised if it where the case.

 

 

Daniel

[Dominic M]

or other documentation, such as invoices or bills which provide proof of permanent residency

I did add "I believe" as a caveat as, like other areas of this self declaration scheme, there seem to be grey areas. The above extract from your HMRC quotation is one. It is open to interpretation. Taking it in the spirit that I believe it is meant and as it appears to read, it means people whose main residence is their boat. Hence the boats who moor near me that are used as primary homes are entitled to move to refuel and claim that as domestic. Plainly if they choose to move to refuel over unreasonable distances HMRC may take a different view. But that aside, it is also the case that the retailer is not expected to query a purchaser's declaration.

 

You are doing it the correct way.

 

My point was suppliers who supply only at 60/40 can be forcing boaters to make an illegal declaration if they exceed 60% propulsion. If for instance an inexperienced boater is genuinely unaware of his intended usage and asks suppliers advice who then says 60/40 is ok but it is clear that propulsion will exceed 60% then suppliers duty of care must compel him to refuse to sell or allow boater to self declare. (or sell at 100%)

 

On the other hand if supplier informs buyer after refuelling that he only does 60/40, who is responsible if buyer then states that he exceeds 60% propulsion?

Providing it is made clear that the retailer will only sell at a fixed 60/40 split prior to the buyer refuelling, I can't see they are doing anything wrongly. However, if no such clear statement is made beforehand, then I cannot see legally how they can refuse the buyer's declaration once they have refuelled. I have seen notices at retailers making it clear that the diesel is sold at a fixed price on a fixed split which surely covers them.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Dominic M

[cotswoldsman]

I must say I think this subject has been done to death,but can't help myself adding a comment as like many others I have very very strong views on this subject and was shot down by quite a few when I suggested a list of Marinas/Retailers who insist on 60/40 so they could be avoided. As a CCer I have seen quite a few places that only sell 60/40 and have avoided them for everything I normaly start to look for diesel when I am down to about half a tank so I can then avoid the 60/40 Marinas. I still advocate that these places should be avoided for any purchases hopefully they will then realise that they are missing out on other business.

I will give you an example,last summer we were 3 boats going across the Ribble to Lancaster Canal having heard it was difficult to purchase diesel on Lancaster Canal we phoned the last marina before Ribble that marina is St Mary's on Rufford Branch on L&L they confirmed that we could declare what we wanted and at that time the price was 0.50ppl. We all pulled into the marina and they were very helpful and very friendly, the result was I ended up booking my boat in for a complete repaint (my boat goes in nest week) another boat booke to have blacking and some painting done (this was done last October) and the third boat booked winter moorings. So as a result of us going there for diesel that we were allowed to declare between the 3 of us we will have spent about £8,000 and we have filled with diesel twice!!

[nb Innisfree]

I must say I think this subject has been done to death,but can't help myself adding a comment as like many others I have very very strong views on this subject and was shot down by quite a few when I suggested a list of Marinas/Retailers who insist on 60/40 so they could be avoided. As a CCer I have seen quite a few places that only sell 60/40 and have avoided them for everything I normaly start to look for diesel when I am down to about half a tank so I can then avoid the 60/40 Marinas. I still advocate that these places should be avoided for any purchases hopefully they will then realise that they are missing out on other business.

I will give you an example,last summer we were 3 boats going across the Ribble to Lancaster Canal having heard it was difficult to purchase diesel on Lancaster Canal we phoned the last marina before Ribble that marina is St Mary's on Rufford Branch on L&L they confirmed that we could declare what we wanted and at that time the price was 0.50ppl. We all pulled into the marina and they were very helpful and very friendly, the result was I ended up booking my boat in for a complete repaint (my boat goes in nest week) another boat booke to have blacking and some painting done (this was done last October) and the third boat booked winter moorings. So as a result of us going there for diesel that we were allowed to declare between the 3 of us we will have spent about £8,000 and we have filled with diesel twice!!

 

These and similar boatyards are seeing self declaration as a 'sprat to catch a mackerel' which benefits boaters and themselves. In fact when boatyards are helpful like that it makes it almost a pleasure to spend money with them.

 

I say almost as I am a tight northerner.

[ditchcrawler]

I must say I think this subject has been done to death,but can't help myself adding a comment as like many others I have very very strong views on this subject and was shot down by quite a few when I suggested a list of Marinas/Retailers who insist on 60/40 so they could be avoided. As a CCer I have seen quite a few places that only sell 60/40 and have avoided them for everything I normaly start to look for diesel when I am down to about half a tank so I can then avoid the 60/40 Marinas. I still advocate that these places should be avoided for any purchases hopefully they will then realise that they are missing out on other business.

I will give you an example,last summer we were 3 boats going across the Ribble to Lancaster Canal having heard it was difficult to purchase diesel on Lancaster Canal we phoned the last marina before Ribble that marina is St Mary's on Rufford Branch on L&L they confirmed that we could declare what we wanted and at that time the price was 0.50ppl. We all pulled into the marina and they were very helpful and very friendly, the result was I ended up booking my boat in for a complete repaint (my boat goes in nest week) another boat booke to have blacking and some painting done (this was done last October) and the third boat booked winter moorings. So as a result of us going there for diesel that we were allowed to declare between the 3 of us we will have spent about £8,000 and we have filled with diesel twice!!

As was said in an earlier post "Sue"list all the outlets she knows on her site. There is also a site that list diesel prices, http://diesel.fibrefactory.co.uk/ again it is only as good as the information we boaters feed into it.