RCD. Is it worth it?

[kayak]

Hi all.

 

Quite a simple question really, although could have some complicated answers. If your doing your own fit out, and are not planning on selling for 5 years etc, it is worth going down the RCD route? Would it even have an effect on resale price in 5 years time?

 

Your thoughts?

 

Kayak.

[dor]

My thoughts:

 

1: I can't see what will happen tomorrow, let alone the next five years. Your plans may not go to plan.

2: More and more boats will have RCD documentation. I think buyers will become increasingly wary of boats that don't appear to comply. Some may belittle the RCD as it is largely self-certified, but good looking documention signed off by a surveyor has got to count for something.

[Dominic M]

Would it even have an effect on resale price in 5 years time[/color]?

 

Your thoughts?

 

Kayak.

Definitely. It would be illegal to sell it in 5 years' time unless you can do an instant fit out. It is 5 years from when you complete the boat, not from when you purchase the shell.

[Lee J]

Could always sell it as a project boat, leave them the cupboard door handles and a screwdriver!

[blackrose]

Definitely. It would be illegal to sell it in 5 years' time unless you can do an instant fit out. It is 5 years from when you complete the boat, not from when you purchase the shell.

 

And how exactly does one determine when the boat is "finished"? It's an ongoing process so is a boat ever really finished? Additionally if it's a self-fitout how would anyone other than yourself know when you had finished the fitout? I am nearly finished mine after a long time, but I could say it had been done in 6 months.

[Gary Peacock]

The only real besides perceived problem with a boat without documentation is that certain marine finance companies are wary of offering finance on what due to the lack of documentation they consider not to be a boat of unknown specification.

 

It sounds sill but their thoughts are the boat is their security and they consider the RCD documentation to provide some form of pedigree.

 

It seems brokers are now less happy about boats without the correct documentation if needed because of the position it leaves them in legally too.

 

At the end of the day RCD compliance isn't hard if you do the research before building the boat, it's only retrospectively that it become expensive and messy if you just do your own thing then expect it to pass later.

 

Within reason you can find out for free, all the info you need on here and in fact I might soon be doing a little consultation work for DIY fitters for a small fee in the future.

[Dominic M]

Could always sell it as a project boat, leave them the cupboard door handles and a screwdriver!

You would still have to issue a declaration of conformity up to the point you had built it to - just as the shell builder supplies an Annexe IIIa at the point you purchase that.

 

And how exactly does one determine when the boat is "finished"? It's an ongoing process so is a boat ever really finished? Additionally if it's a self-fitout how would anyone other than yourself know when you had finished the fitout? I am nearly finished mine after a long time, but I could say it had been done in 6 months.

Indeed. One of the RCD's grey areas. However, plainly more than 5 years must have elapsed from the shell purchase to be credible.

[Gary Peacock]

And how exactly does one determine when the boat is "finished"? It's an ongoing process so is a boat ever really finished? Additionally if it's a self-fitout how would anyone other than yourself know when you had finished the fitout? I am nearly finished mine after a long time, but I could say it had been done in 6 months.

 

That's up to you demonstrate in some legally accepted form, normally you would evidence this great event with a detail document illustrated with pictures etc of the "finished" project and a signed and dated copy to a third party to hold. (Lawyer etc) Alternatively stick it a sealed envelope and post it recorded delivery back to your self and keep it somewhere safe just in case.

 

In reality this advice seems to be a mix of TS interpretatation and best practice offered on various courses run on the RCD.

 

Now all that seems to come from-

 

(g) craft built for own use, provided that they are not subsequently placed on the

Community market during a period of five years;

 

The word "built" is what seems to have become "completed".

 

This is BMF/RYA advice on it.

 

(g) craft built for own use, provided that they are not subsequently placed on the

Community market during a period of five years;

The exclusion in (g) concerns craft built by their future user, provided that they are not

placed on the EEA market within five years of being put into service. This does not preclude

the sub-contracting, by the builder, of specialists in certain aspects of the fitting out of the

boat e.g. electrical or electronic engineers.

A kit boat bought by its end user, from the kit boat manufacturer, not completed in

accordance with the kit manufacturers instructions [i.e. modified(1)] but to the “desires” of the

end user is considered to be a “boat built for own use”.

If, for whatever reason, a boat built for own use is intended to be placed on the Community

market, whether completed or partly completed, within the 5 year period, then certification

by a person or persons fulfilling the role of manufacturer would be required in a similar

manner to (f) above. These persons would take the responsibility for the appraisal of the

design, construction and any necessary modification of the boat. This appraisal, with regard

to compliance with essential requirements of the Directive, involves the procedures necessary

for conformity assessment.

NB:

A member of the general public building his own boat (in his garage or garden, for example),

from materials bought on the open market is deemed to be “building a boat for his own use”.

This boat lies outside of the Directive and does not require compliance with the essential

requirements and thus CE Marking. If for whatever reason this situation changes then the

provisions detailed above would be seen to apply.

It should be made clear that a private person who enters into a contractual arrangement with

a professional company, yard or individual constructor to build a one off boat (be-spoke) is

deemed to have entered into an arrangement where there will be a transfer of ownership.

Such a boat is deemed to fall under the Directive and will have to comply with the Essential

Requirements of the Directive and applicable conformity assessment procedures. Reference

is made to text expanding Article 4. Boats built for own use have the concept that a person is

building their own boat and not having it built by others.

 

My thoughts on selling a boat under five years would be to simply update the Annex IIIa declaration for a part built boat if the work you had completed complied or remove the work that did not.

 

The next buyer would then have the paper work to the correct point of construction if they later needed to CE mark the boat themselves.

 

It's god awful messy but that might be a bit clearer

 

On another note if you fiddle or botch RCD compliance then that can turn into a real nightmare because selling the boat does not see the back of it, you will remain legally responcible for work you have certified in the future. If the boat "bites" somone in the future the poewers that be and compensation chases will be knocking at your door.

 

So even the compliance route if not done correctly can have costly implications.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Gary Peacock